Since when have Wolverhampton Locks been on the Old Main Line?

[Chris Lowe]

9 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I reckon the BCN gets talked about enough on here to have it own topic section (or whatever you call it).
It’d be good for future reference, wouldn’t it?

Do we just ask the mods to set it up?

 

 

We can't do it, you would have to ask @DHutch or @RichM

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Just now, buccaneer66 said:

 

We can't do it, you would have to ask @DHutch or @RichM

👍

 

Just now, Goliath said:

👍

 

I guess he’ll (RichM) will read this at some point. 
So my request is here. 

[Tim Lewis]

Another from the London Canal Museum Archive, A map from 1773 showing the canal.

 

http://timlewis.org.uk/webspace/Birmingham Canal Navigations Map 1773.pdf

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Tim Lewis

[Ian Mac]

3 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

Another from the London Canal Museum Archive, A map from 1773 showing the canal.

Which proves the point, of calling things the Old main line, is purely by agreement, as this map clearly shows, that the length between the top of Smethwick and Spon Lane which we now refer to as the old main line, is not the old main line at all, but a newer old main line,  as original old main went up and down a further 6 locks, 3 each side, to the top summit which was got rid of soon after this map was produced!

The same applies to straightening out, which happen around Oldbury, which interestingly was referred to, using a different name when C&RT released a stoppage note some time ago about works on the m5. They used the name (old main line) bracketed to refer to it. Although we did not loose the Oldbury loops until relatively recently.

I suspect the C&RT database has to use correct names as they have to be able to  prove ownership of the land, and refer back to other historic records which they hold.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Ian Mac
spelling - dyslexia

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Ian Mac said:

I suspect the C&RT database has to use correct names as they have to be able to  prove ownership of the land, and refer back to other historic records which they hold

But surely CRT and BW before them would have started off using information inherited from the BCN company on nationalisation. And I set out the company names for some of these links, as recorded in Bradshaw's in 1904, in an earlier post. 

[Heartland]

The reproduction of Hancox's map does show all 12 locks at Smethwick , the reduction happened later, It also shows the 20th Lock at Aldersley to the north of the Warehouse on the Staffs & Worcester and Yates map (1775) does the same.

 

[Mike Todd]

Just dug out my earlier copy of L A Edwards, at one time the only available source of distances on all the canals, gives in the BCN section, Main as from Bridge Street to Aldersley Junction which is what I have always used in my own database. perhaps it needs revision?

Edited November 15, 2022 by Mike Todd
mis read start location (not Worcester bar!)

[ditchcrawler]

The trouble is no one really knows like lots of history

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

The trouble is no one really knows like lots of history

 

Maybe, but I see there are a few people who have made it into a life’s work to understand and write about the BCN’s past.

 

Every time I learn a little bit more about the BCN, I realise how little I will ever now about it.

The BCN is fascinating.

 

[Tim Lewis]

On 10/11/2022 at 14:31, Ian Mac said:

Which proves the point, of calling things the Old main line, is purely by agreement, as this map clearly shows, that the length between the top of Smethwick and Spon Lane which we now refer to as the old main line, is not the old main line at all, but a newer old main line,  as original old main went up and down a further 6 locks, 3 each side, to the top summit which was got rid of soon after this map was produced!

The same applies to straightening out, which happen around Oldbury, which interestingly was referred to, using a different name when C&RT released a stoppage note some time ago about works on the m5. They used the name (old main line) bracketed to refer to it. Although we did not loose the Oldbury loops until relatively recently.

I suspect the C&RT database has to use correct names as they have to be able to  prove ownership of the land, and refer back to other historic records which they hold.

 

Foe interest, the latest Canal Hunter video of the missing Brindley Locks:

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Tim Lewis

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, Goliath said:

 

Maybe, but I see there are a few people who have made it into a life’s work to understand and write about the BCN’s past.

 

Every time I learn a little bit more about the BCN, I realise how little I will ever now about it.

The BCN is fascinating.

 

That is very true

3 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

 

Foe interest, the latest Canal Hunter video of the missing Brindley Locks:

 

 

 

Watched it this morning as it was tipping it down outside 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

On 11/11/2022 at 09:03, Heartland said:

The reproduction of Hancox's map does show all 12 locks at Smethwick , the reduction happened later, It also shows the 20th Lock at Aldersley to the north of the Warehouse on the Staffs & Worcester and Yates map (1775) does the same.

 

Might be a daft question, why is the map ‘upside down’?

[Tim Lewis]

16 hours ago, Goliath said:

Might be a daft question, why is the map ‘upside down’?

 

According to Wikipedia: 

 

Research suggests that north-south positions on maps have psychological consequences. In general, north is associated with richer people, more expensive real estate, and higher altitude, while south is associated with poorer people, cheaper prices, and lower altitude

 

South-up map orientation - Wikipedia

[Iain_S]

3 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

 

According to Wikipedia: 

 

Research suggests that north-south positions on maps have psychological consequences. In general, north is associated with richer people, more expensive real estate, and higher altitude, while south is associated with poorer people, cheaper prices, and lower altitude

 

South-up map orientation - Wikipedia

Is that a consequence of "levelling up", or of being higher up the page? In any case, I suspect that that isn't the case for the UK, although possibly true for the USA. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

On 08/11/2022 at 18:43, Captain Pegg said:

Best though not to ask what to call the bit between Bloomfield and Deepfields Junctions.

yes, been looking at this because I’ve been trying to find information on Colesley tunnel.

(apparently this new cutting reduced the old line by a further 3 miles)

wouldn’t we simply call this stretch New Main Line too?

 

 

[Captain Pegg]

3 hours ago, Goliath said:

yes, been looking at this because I’ve been trying to find information on Colesley tunnel.

(apparently this new cutting reduced the old line by a further 3 miles)

wouldn’t we simply call this stretch New Main Line too?

 

 

That was kind of my point; it is ‘a’ new main line but isn’t referred to as such.

 

It seems the terminology ‘old’ and ‘new’ aren’t intended so much as accurate descriptions but more as a means of distinguishing one route from the other where they run in parallel.

 

There is no need to distinguish outside of that section, hence the straightened section through Coseley is simply the main line.

 

 

[David Mack]

Yes. The distinction is only needed between Smethwick and Factory Junctions. Everywhere else is just the 'Main Line'.

The other retained sections of the original route have been given their own names.

Even the Old Main Line is not all the original route, having been altered by the removal of the original summit level,  bypassing the Oldbury Loop, and more recently by the realignment of some sections under the M5 between Spon Lane and Oldbury.