Since when have Wolverhampton Locks been on the Old Main Line?

[David Mack]

I know the flight lies on Brindley's original route, and not on Telford's later straightening, but surely the term 'Old Main Line' only refers to the length from Smethwick to Factory, with the later route from Old Turn to Factory being the 'New Main Line' and the section from Factory to Aldersley simply being the 'Main Line', with other retained sections of the original route having their own loop names.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices/23623-wolverhampton-lock-flight-old-main-line

[Tracy D'arth]

5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I know the flight lies on Brindley's original route, and not on Telford's later straightening, but surely the term 'Old Main Line' only refers to the length from Smethwick to Factory, with the later route from Old Turn to Factory being the 'New Main Line' and the section from Factory to Aldersley simply being the 'Main Line', with other retained sections of the original route having their own loop names.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices/23623-wolverhampton-lock-flight-old-main-line

I would agree. But the C&RT office staff often have no idea where a canal is or what it is called.

[Captain Pegg]

21 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I know the flight lies on Brindley's original route, and not on Telford's later straightening, but surely the term 'Old Main Line' only refers to the length from Smethwick to Factory, with the later route from Old Turn to Factory being the 'New Main Line' and the section from Factory to Aldersley simply being the 'Main Line', with other retained sections of the original route having their own loop names.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices/23623-wolverhampton-lock-flight-old-main-line

Perhaps it comes from the same place as the ‘old’ in Wednesbury Old Canal. Is that official?

 

Anyway the sign at Wolverhampton top lock which pre-dates CRT by a few decades refers to it as the Wolverhampton Canal

[Chris Lowe]

New main line is quite a distance away from there.

 

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, buccaneer66 said:

New main line is quite a distance away from there.

 

 

This says Birmingham Canal Wolverhampton Level

[Captain Pegg]

Wolverhampton locks on the Birmingham Canal.

 

It's dead easy. No need to confuse it. Same applies to Factory and Smethwick locks. But not Spon Lane locks, they're on the Wednesbury Old Canal.

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

36 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Wolverhampton locks on the Birmingham Canal.

 

It's dead easy. No need to confuse it. Same applies to Factory and Smethwick locks. But not Spon Lane locks, they're on the Wednesbury Old Canal.

 

...I’m confused

are you saying Factory Locks are not on the New Main Line? How come?

 

There’s plenty on the BCN that puzzles me.

 

[Captain Pegg]

5 minutes ago, Goliath said:

...I’m confused

are you saying Factory Locks are not on the New Main Line? How come?

 

There’s plenty on the BCN that puzzles me.

 

 

No. What I'm saying is that it is all the Birmingham Canal and in the case of lock flights that's sufficient to identify them without bothering with lines and levels.

 

I guess though with Smethwick and Factory by distinguishing that one is on the old main line and the other on the new main line might help with stoppage notices but frankly there's stuff published that's far more ambiguous.

 

And yes, Factory is on the "New Main Line" if you wish to use that parlance.

 

Best though not to ask what to call the bit between Bloomfield and Deepfields Junctions.

 

Note that in CanalPlan they use the terms Main Line for the entire direct route from Birmingham to Wolverhampton and Old Main Line for Smethwick to Factory on the Wolverhampton level. It's probably because these are notional rather than official terms that confusion as to what is 'correct' arises.

[David Mack]

13 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Note that in CanalPlan they use the terms Main Line for the entire direct route from Birmingham to Wolverhampton and Old Main Line for Smethwick to Factory on the Wolverhampton level. It's probably because these are notional rather than official terms that confusion as to what is 'correct' arises.

 

Bradshaw's does the same:

The "Main Line" runs from Paradise Street (or at least it did in 1904) to Aldersley Junction, and the "Old Main Loop Line from Smethwick Junction to Tipton Factory Junction" ran as its name describes.

 

I seem to recall that when compiling Bradshaw's, De Sallis took his information directly from the relevant canal company records, so these presumably are the names used by the BCN company.

6 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

Perhaps it comes from the same place as the ‘old’ in Wednesbury Old Canal. Is that official?

Bradshaw refers to it as the "Wednesbury Old Canal", which in 1904 ran from Pudding Green Junction for 2 miles and 5 furlongs to its termination beyond Golds Green.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

But not Spon Lane locks, they're on the Wednesbury Old Canal.

No. They are on the "Spon Lane Locks Branch"  - 3 furlongs from Spon Lane Junction to Bromford Junction.

 

Although they are part of Brindley's original Wednesbury Branch, as is the Main Line between Bromford and Pudding Green Junctions, although much improved, and I think straightened a little.

Edited November 8, 2022 by David Mack

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I’ve been looking at my copy of the ‘lost 60 miles’.

 it’s a really interesting read and (for me) it’s beginning to make sense of the Oldbury line and Wednesbury Canal. 


 

[Chris Lowe]

I wonder if @Heartland can clarify things

[Captain Pegg]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

No. They are on the "Spon Lane Locks Branch"  - 3 furlongs from Spon Lane Junction to Bromford Junction.

 

Which is a renamed isolated section of the original Wednesbury Canal. Again something that may or may not ever have had official status. Arguably though if that's what CRT describe it as then that's what it officially is.

 

It makes sense to describe the main line of the Birmingham Canal as being the direct route from Gas Street to Aldersley Junction and all the former alignments as loops. I was hinting at the inconsistency in respect of the Coseley Tunnel line, which for many years was one of two parallel routes of the Birmingham Canal but isn't part of the "New Main Line".

3 minutes ago, buccaneer66 said:

I wonder if @Heartland can clarify things

 

Clarify what?

 

David was correct. Wolverhampton locks are on the main line of the Birmingham Canal. There is and only ever was one line at this location so 'old' and 'new' doesn't come into it.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

From what I’m reading now, if I’m reading correctly;

Tat Bank Branch is also known as the Spon Lane Branch. 
 

[Heartland]

There are those that use the correct terminology and them that just think it.

 

Over time the Birmingham Canal Navigations has been modified, altered and improved.

Brindley's original scheme was from 17 locks from Aldersley to the Summit, this changed to 20 and then 21. It is common to call this section Wolverhampton Locks, but it comprised the route of the Original BCN (except lock 21). At Wolverhampton there was a diversion around the station (High Level) with the original route running beneath the station and from there to Deepfields (Coseley) again was principally original. So a compromise may be to identify what was original. But then with time the canal was altered, straightened and widened and even with sections of the "Old Main Line" Tipton- Birmingham parts were diverted, widened etc. Separate to this nomenclature are the Walsall Canal, Birmingham & Fazeley Canal, Dudley Canal No1 & No 2, Wyrley & Essington Canal etc etc etc. 

 

The Leeds and Liverpool was probably simpler, but then there was Douglas Navigation etc etc

 

 

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

No. They are on the "Spon Lane Locks Branch"  - 3 furlongs from Spon Lane Junction to Bromford Junction.

 

Although they are part of Brindley's original Wednesbury Branch, as is the Main Line between Bromford and Pudding Green Junctions, although much improved, and I think straightened a little.

 

So Wednesbury Canal isn't correct as by the enabling act it's actually a branch of the Birmingham Canal rather than an independent navigation; and Wednesbury OId Canal is a name conjured up by the BCN once it had grown beyond its origins as the Birmingham Canal Company?

 

I believe the straightened main line from Bromford to Pudding Green is a completely new alignment that bisected the original Wednesbury branch - which ran in an arc to the south - at Bromford and Pudding Green.

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Captain Pegg

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, Heartland said:

Brindley's original scheme was from 17 locks from Aldersley to the Summit, this changed to 20 and then 21.

Surely Brindley's original scheme rose from Aldersley to Wolverhampton by 20 (later 21) locks, then ran level to what is now Spon Lane Junction, then rose a further 3 locks to the original summit, before descending through 6 Smethwick locks to the Birmingham level (with 3 further locks - the current Spon Lane flight - on the Wednesbury Branch).

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I found this on a Wolverhampton history and heritage website that explains clearly why the extra lock was built. But that clearly ain’t lock 21 is it?

And it’s not lock 20. 
(there is photo on the full page which shows lock 20, with the 20 written on the balance beam of the lower lock gate)

 

So which lock is it? 
I think, from memory, with the water turning off to the right it’s lock19?

 

 

[Captain Pegg]

37 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I found this on a Wolverhampton history and heritage website that explains clearly why the extra lock was built. But that clearly ain’t lock 21 is it?

And it’s not lock 20. 
(there is photo on the full page which shows lock 20, with the 20 written on the balance beam of the lower lock gate)

 

So which lock is it? 
I think, from memory, with the water turning off to the right it’s lock19?

 

 

Isn’t that bottom lock no. 21 photographed from it’s tail bridge? Why do you think it clearly isn’t?

 

 

Walsall's odd lock is the other way round; a mitred pair of bottom gates where all other's have single gates. Don't know the reason, perhaps someone that knows can educate me.

  

Edited November 9, 2022 by Captain Pegg

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

12 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Isn’t that bottom lock no. 21 photographed from it’s tail bridge? Why do you think it clearly isn’t?

Of course it is !!

I’ve been looking at that for a couple of days too. 
What an idjut! What a t###! Of course it’s looking up the lock. I think my heads on backwards. 

 

I’m gonna get my coat

…and go for a pint. 

[David Mack]

My understanding is that lock 20 is the new lock, and the fall of lock 21 was reduced by chopping off the top part. The pound between the two is in a bit of a cutting, presumably because it was dug down by the fall of the (new) lock 20.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

28 minutes ago, David Mack said:

My understanding is that lock 20 is the new lock, and the fall of lock 21 was reduced by chopping off the top part. The pound between the two is in a bit of a cutting, presumably because it was dug down by the fall of the (new) lock 20.

That’s what the snippet I posted suggests. 
Giving the single bottom gate on lock 20 as evidence. 
 

 

[Heartland]

Regarding Lock 20 and 21, Wolverhampton Locks, looking at the existing records there seems to have been a diversion to enable construction and replace the original deep lock. I will look at the maps such as Yates Staffordshire to see if this can be proved with a map 

 

Regarding the 17 locks that was Brindleys survey and when construction started at the long-term work, that is Smethwick Tunnel a problem occurred and work was stopped. I have recently explained this in an article for the Waterways history group- RCHS where @buccaneer66 can probably access and have also previously mentioned such issues in Boundary Post. Effectively the route as surveyed by Brindley had to be extensively resurveyed and what was adopted for the Original Main Line had Samuel Simcox closely associated with much of this new work. Why the bottom lock 20 was made deep remained an issue until resolution with the two locks. Considerable water loss happened at the original lock. But then other "Brindley" canals had deep locks and shallow locks and maybe there is an argument that sufficient water was available in those other cases.

 

So when the canal was finished to Aldersley in September 1772, 250 years ago (with 20 locks in the Wolverhampton Lock Flight), the route had been modified in parts and the length of the route was over 5 miles longer than Brindley had originally planned

 

For the BCN water supply was a continuing problem and John Smeaton was asked to resolve it. His solution was to take water from mine pumping engines, Smeaton was also responsible for surveying the Birmingham Canal extensions including to Digbeth in response to the rival scheme that was the Birmingham & Fazeley Canal. It was parliament that called for the compromise that happened and led to merger, Whatever Alan Codling might say about Smeaton in the above extract is not supported by surviving records including Smeaton's own reports. At this time the BCN had two capable engineers Samuel Bull and James Bough (the superintendent) and they had a considerable overview on the Birmingham & Fazeley extension to Broadwaters from Ryders Green. The route from Spon Lane through the bottom 3 locks to Ryders Green and onto Goldshill (effectively) formed part of the original BCN opened in November 1769.

 

From Broadwaters to Walsall that extension was in the hands of Thomas Hood, who replaced Bough as superintendent.

 

Spon End was a widening of the Telford Feeder to Edgbaston Reservoir for a short distance and serving a basin and a coal wharf. That basin had some form of railway interchange facility and later during World War 1 both arm and basin had a role serving a munitions factory and then the BIP works. Spon End must be considered to the last of the BCN branches to be made and its completion was after the Cannock Chase Extension Canal.

 

 As Goliath has observed the BCN is a very complicated waterway.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Might help if I knew one end of a lock from the other 😃

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I reckon the BCN gets talked about enough on here to have it own topic section (or whatever you call it).
It’d be good for future reference, wouldn’t it?

Do we just ask the mods to set it up?

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Goliath