A vision for British inland navigations network

[Heartland]

Twenty years ago, the Association of Inland Navigation Authorities produced a document outlining their vision as projects of national significance these suggestions included:

 

(1) The enhancement of the southern section of the Grand Union Canal, Leicester Arm

(2) Lengthening of Thorne Lock on Stainforth and Keadby canal

(3) The full restoration of the Cotswold Canals

(4) The extension of navigation on the Upper Avon Navigation in Warwickshire

(5) The lengthening of the locks on the Calder and Hebble Navigation

(6) The enhancement of the Northampton Arm of the Grand Union Canal

(7) A new broad waterway linking the River Witham with the Nene

(8) A new broad waterway linking the Grand Union Canal with the River Great Ouse

(9) The full restoration of the Wey and Arun Canal

(10) The extension of the Slough Arm to link with the Thames

(11) The Muskham Bypass on the River Trent at Newark

 

So what happened? Had the change of a substantial mileage owned by British Waterways to pass to the Canal and River Trust anything to do with the lack of progress?

It must be a matter of concern that they care more about well-being than waterways! 

 

[Mike Hurley]

Probably down to the lack of hundreds of millions it would cost.

[magpie patrick]

17 hours ago, Heartland said:

Twenty years ago, the Association of Inland Navigation Authorities produced a document outlining their vision as projects of national significance these suggestions included:

 

(1) The enhancement of the southern section of the Grand Union Canal, Leicester Arm

(2) Lengthening of Thorne Lock on Stainforth and Keadby canal

(3) The full restoration of the Cotswold Canals

(4) The extension of navigation on the Upper Avon Navigation in Warwickshire

(5) The lengthening of the locks on the Calder and Hebble Navigation

(6) The enhancement of the Northampton Arm of the Grand Union Canal

(7) A new broad waterway linking the River Witham with the Nene

(8) A new broad waterway linking the Grand Union Canal with the River Great Ouse

(9) The full restoration of the Wey and Arun Canal

(10) The extension of the Slough Arm to link with the Thames

(11) The Muskham Bypass on the River Trent at Newark

 

So what happened? Had the change of a substantial mileage owned by British Waterways to pass to the Canal and River Trust anything to do with the lack of progress?

It must be a matter of concern that they care more about well-being than waterways! 

 

 

I think most of those were at the height or canal mania II when the world was our oyster. Most were uncosted and it is questionable whether some were even desirable. Does "enhancement" in 1 and 6 mean widening? And is it really desirable to lengthen the locks on the Calder and Hebble? Widening locks and bridges does not a broad canal make, and lengthening locks doesn't necessarily make a navigation suitable for longer boats, I took Ripple, 62 foot, along the summit of the Huddersfield Broad  Canal having arrived via the HNC, and one reverse bend was a bit interesting...

 

Number 4 (Warwick Avon) still has local authority support - every few years a new study gets commissioned, 7 and 8 remain desirable objectives and number 2 would be easy (although apparently 70 foot narrow boats do get through Thorne Lock). Restoration continues on the Wey and Arun (number 10), The Muskham Bypass (11) is really a freight initiative as leisure users are unlikely to have vessels so large they won't fit through Newark Bridge and in any event they will want to visity Newark or at least aren't inconveneinced by passing that way. 

 

I suspect the Slough Arm/Thames link is a dead duck, and possibly was even then. 

 

 

[PaulJ]

18 hours ago, Heartland said:

 

(8) A new broad waterway linking the Grand Union Canal with the River Great Ouse

 

Well they got the start of it next to Campbell Wharf Marina and theres the recent new landing stage at Kempston Mill at the other end.

Trouble is they 'forgot' or didnt include the culvert when they built/upgraded the new road in MK (or something along those lines-I dont remember the specifics) which means further cost/aggro in the unlikely event of it ever actually happening.

The BMK Waterways Trusts boat at either end seem to be doing well however so that counts as a success and nice to see Bedford getting a trip boat back again.

 

[Athy]

Number 3 (full restoration of the Cotswold Canals) continues to make progress.

[1st ade]

1 hour ago, PaulJ said:

Trouble is they 'forgot' or didn't include the culvert when they built/upgraded the new road in MK (or something along those lines-I don't remember the specifics) which means further cost/aggro in the unlikely event of it ever actually happening

They didn't "forget" - I have copious amounts of correspondence on my efforts to try and get a culvert included but, "because of the austere times in which the dual carriage way was built" (or some such wording) no one was willing to spend the extra couple of thousand quid NOW to potentially save millions later (if the canal ever got that far)

 

My MP (North Milton Keynes) would not get involved as the new road wasn't in his area, the Bedford MP was interested but "it would be illegal for me to take action based on people outside my constituency". I came to the conclusion that the general populace have little influence and, unless you can raise interest with (say) Depart for Transport, Highways Division, you've got no chance.

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, PaulJ said:

Well they got the start of it next to Campbell Wharf Marina and theres the recent new landing stage at Kempston Mill at the other end.

Trouble is they 'forgot' or didnt include the culvert when they built/upgraded the new road in MK (or something along those lines-I dont remember the specifics) which means further cost/aggro in the unlikely event of it ever actually happening.

The BMK Waterways Trusts boat at either end seem to be doing well however so that counts as a success and nice to see Bedford getting a trip boat back again.

 

Another big can of worms with BMK is that whilst it might become a broad waterway to Bedford, it wouldn't be from Bedford downstream unless there  was a wholesale widening of the Gt Ouse locks as almost all lock entrances/exits are under 14ft.

[PaulJ]

18 minutes ago, 1st ade said:

They didn't "forget" - I have copious amounts of correspondence on my efforts to try and get a culvert included but, "because of the austere times in which the dual carriage way was built" (or some such wording) no one was willing to spend the extra couple of thousand quid NOW to potentially save millions later (if the canal ever got that far)

Thanks 1st Ade for clarification-I couldnt remember exactly the why of it-hence putting 'forgot or didnt include' . Did a quick search but couldnt find the right article and got bored of looking-I have a very short attention span.

Fair play to you for trying though. Commendable stuff..

8 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Another big can of worms with BMK is that whilst it might become a broad waterway to Bedford, it wouldn't be from Bedford downstream unless there  was a wholesale widening of the Gt Ouse locks as almost all lock entrances/exits are under 14ft.

Yep- Im moored between the two narrowest ones. And long may they both remain being the first two on the River (although Im quite happy if they get wider) 😀

 

[John Brightley]

3 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Number 4 (Warwick Avon) still has local authority support 

Are you sure Patrick? 

This article from 2019 seems to be the latest I can find on the net, which states that the councils would not be progressing with the scheme.

https://www.stratford.gov.uk/news/press.cfm/archive/1/item/136814

There have been significant objections in the past from the National Trust (custodians of the riverside Charlecote estate) and the owners of Warwick Castle.

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, PaulJ said:

Yep- Im moored between the two narrowest ones. And long may they both remain being the first two on the River (although Im quite happy if they get wider) 😀

First two from the source or from the sea?

And if the sea where do you define as being the sea?  🤔

Since Earith is Tidal to me that is the end of the Gt Ouse, the bit at the other end of the Old West is really The River Cam 😱

 

[PaulJ]

59 minutes ago, Loddon said:

First two from the source or from the sea?

And if the sea where do you define as being the sea?  🤔

Since Earith is Tidal to me that is the end of the Gt Ouse, the bit at the other end of the Old West is really The River Cam 😱

 

First two from the source. 

Bedford. That place where few dare stay overnight 😀

Its quite a unique River in its own way when you think about it. I rather like it.

[GUMPY]

15 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

First two from the source. 

Bedford. That place where few dare stay overnight 😀

Its quite a unique River in its own way when you think about it. I rather like it.

Not got past St Ives yet

Even when we kept a boat at Joneses we tended to go downstream.

Hopefully get past St Ives next year that's if I get past the Middle Level

[Momac]

6 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

The Muskham Bypass (11) is really a freight initiative as leisure users are unlikely to have vessels so large they won't fit through Newark Bridge and in any event they will want to visity Newark or at least aren't inconveneinced by passing that way. 

 

First time I have heard of that 

 

 

 

[magpie patrick]

3 hours ago, John Brightley said:

Are you sure Patrick? 

This article from 2019 seems to be the latest I can find on the net, which states that the councils would not be progressing with the scheme.

https://www.stratford.gov.uk/news/press.cfm/archive/1/item/136814

There have been significant objections in the past from the National Trust (custodians of the riverside Charlecote estate) and the owners of Warwick Castle.

 I'm not sure but they do ring me up from time to time - admittedely Warwick rather than Stratford. I always tell 'em they should have had a decent consultant to start with  

[John Brightley]

2 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 I'm not sure but they do ring me up from time to time - admittedely Warwick rather than Stratford. I always tell 'em they should have had a decent consultant to start with  

Strange that they're continuing to ring you. If I get the chance I'll ask my friendly local councillor what their current thinking is...

 

[Heartland]

Many moons ago, the RCHS West Midlands Group had somebody to talk about the Upper Avon Project, there were then some positive hopes.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:

 I'm not sure but they do ring me up from time to time - admittedely Warwick rather than Stratford. I always tell 'em they should have had a decent consultant to start with  

I remember that with the Queen Mother having reopened the South Stratford in 1964, and the Upper Avon in 1974, there was hope she would return to open the Higher Avon in 1984 ...

[Stroudwater1]

9 hours ago, Athy said:

Number 3 (full restoration of the Cotswold Canals) continues to make progress.

 

Possibly stalling beyond Stroud but then again mere politics perchance! The missing mile is being dug presently though, I have little doubt it will be navigable to Stroud fairly soon. 

 

https://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co.uk/news/23045215.concerns-vision-connect-severn-thames-canal-link-risk/

 

[Athy]

1 hour ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 

Possibly stalling beyond Stroud but then again mere politics perchance! The missing mile is being dug presently though, I have little doubt it will be navigable to Stroud fairly soon. 

 

https://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co.uk/news/23045215.concerns-vision-connect-severn-thames-canal-link-risk/

 

Yes, as a member I read The Trow too! It's very good news.

[magpie patrick]

11 hours ago, John Brightley said:

Strange that they're continuing to ring you. If I get the chance I'll ask my friendly local councillor what their current thinking is...

 

 I don't get many phone calls! Or at least, not from them, and i was unaware that the scheme had apparently been shelved so a casual call along the lines of "Do you know of this?" is fairly neutral - I get them from a number of restoration schemes, some we never hear of again and some come back. My company did bid for a study on the Higher Avon, I think Peter Bretts got it, and that's where my joke about a decent consultant comes in - I used to work for PBA, they give very expensive, very good but often very complicated advice.  

I should add, Stratford on Avon Council always had an uneasy relationship with their waterways, in the seventies and eighties they were less than helpful towards the canal and the river.

 

10 hours ago, David Mack said:

I remember that with the Queen Mother having reopened the South Stratford in 1964, and the Upper Avon in 1974, there was hope she would return to open the Higher Avon in 1984 ...

 

The ten years between 74 and 84 were probably when the regulatory climate changed against such things! I think it's fair to say the Upper Avon wouldn't happen now, or at least not in the way it was done.

11 hours ago, MartynG said:

First time I have heard of that 

 

 

 

 

The Muskham bypass uses the other branch of the Trent - the locks on the Trent were designed to take four barges at once and as a result are considerably bigger than the largest boat that can fit through Newark Bridge.  For loose and palletised goods four barges in a lock works, but for containers one large barge would be better

7 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 

Possibly stalling beyond Stroud but then again mere politics perchance! The missing mile is being dug presently though, I have little doubt it will be navigable to Stroud fairly soon. 

 

https://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co.uk/news/23045215.concerns-vision-connect-severn-thames-canal-link-risk/

 

 

I've put 2025 in the diary to take Juno there! 

On the whole restorations are beginning to struggle though - the big money simply isn't there to do the large schemes, and most of the small ones aren't connected to the main system - which isn't a reason not to do them but the navigation needs a purpose if it's not connected 

[ditchcrawler]

On 30/10/2022 at 18:10, Heartland said:

Twenty years ago, the Association of Inland Navigation Authorities produced a document outlining their vision as projects of national significance these suggestions included:

 

(1) The enhancement of the southern section of the Grand Union Canal, Leicester Arm

(2) Lengthening of Thorne Lock on Stainforth and Keadby canal

(3) The full restoration of the Cotswold Canals

(4) The extension of navigation on the Upper Avon Navigation in Warwickshire

(5) The lengthening of the locks on the Calder and Hebble Navigation

(6) The enhancement of the Northampton Arm of the Grand Union Canal

(7) A new broad waterway linking the River Witham with the Nene

(8) A new broad waterway linking the Grand Union Canal with the River Great Ouse

(9) The full restoration of the Wey and Arun Canal

(10) The extension of the Slough Arm to link with the Thames

(11) The Muskham Bypass on the River Trent at Newark

 

So what happened? Had the change of a substantial mileage owned by British Waterways to pass to the Canal and River Trust anything to do with the lack of progress?

It must be a matter of concern that they care more about well-being than waterways! 

 

This isn't on the list https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/23087201.ambitious-project-connect-wichelstowe-canals-together/?fbclid=IwAR1_YdzyAhl23pKAxPmZ3so5VsJXTasCOZN28811soOhADuT5Vhn15Vjdgk

[Stroudwater1]

9 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

 

 

 

The ten years between 74 and 84 were probably when the regulatory climate changed against such things! I think it's fair to say the Upper Avon wouldn't happen now, or at least not in the way it was done.

 

 

Most definitely! I seem to recall Long Lartin prisoners coming in,  I believe they worked hard and apparently enjoyed it . I could be wrong but I understand that they helped with the use of explosives possibly at Marlcliff over the rocks. 

 

I suggested they try to make use of prisoners as rehabilitation and gainful work  to someone high up in the Cotswold Canal Trust a few years ago, there is a long term prison complex nearby at Leyhill open prison but they werent even allowed out. Such a shame, They used to have a stall at Chelsea flower show too, but no more! 

[ditchcrawler]

52 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Most definitely! I seem to recall Long Lartin prisoners coming in,  I believe they worked hard and apparently enjoyed it . I could be wrong but I understand that they helped with the use of explosives possibly at Marlcliff over the rocks. 

 

I suggested they try to make use of prisoners as rehabilitation and gainful work  to someone high up in the Cotswold Canal Trust a few years ago, there is a long term prison complex nearby at Leyhill open prison but they werent even allowed out. Such a shame, They used to have a stall at Chelsea flower show too, but no more! 

There were a couple working on the Gipping, it wasn't an easy choice as they missed both breakfast and mid day meals. 

[Richard Fairhurst]

On 30/10/2022 at 18:10, Heartland said:

So what happened? Had the change of a substantial mileage owned by British Waterways to pass to the Canal and River Trust anything to do with the lack of progress?

 

No, not really. The big change was from Dave Fletcher-era BW, which was very focused on restoration and expanding the system, to Robin Evans-era BW, which was focused on financial self-sufficiency. 

 

The AINA Vision in particular was always a bit of a wishlist and one that reflected the particular aspirations of a few stakeholders. I don't remember people taking it particularly seriously even at the time.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Richard Fairhurst

[mykaskin]

I wish the Thorne lock would be lengthed, would help a lot for us historic types - but probably of little use to most. 

 

Mike