Things to look for in a share boat

[Telstar17]

I've been invited to go and look at a share boat tomorrow with some people who are thinking of purchasing a share - we've done a few holidays and really enjoyed them. 

 

I was wondering if anyone could help me with specific things to look out for such as issues or anything like that?

 

here is the listing BCBM Shared Ownership Boating - Narrowboats 

 

if anyone has any advice on shareboating in general or this boat in particular 'Phoenix' I'd really appreciate it!

[blackrose]

I know nothing about shared ownership, but I imagine the other people you go into it with is probably one of the most important factors, potentially more significant in terms of how the arrangement works than the boat itself.

[robtheplod]

11 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I know nothing about shared ownership, but I imagine the other people you go into it with is probably one of the most important factors, potentially more significant in terms of how the arrangement works than the boat itself.

Indeed. We had a share at BCBM before we bought Water Lily. Interesting bunch of people on the syndicate - some really just want to turn up and go on hols, others love polishing the woodwork and get upset if they see scratches.

 

The good bit about the boat they are looking at is winter maintenance is included in the monthly fee - always better. Keep in mind that on occasions something will occur which needs extra payments from members, such as repaints/new engine etc... but split 12 ways softens the blow!  Might be an idea to ask if anything is planned imminently on this, as sometimes members leave just before major expenditures....

 

Make sure they are happy with the allocation of weeks each year and it works for them. They may even get extra for free - we often had two or three extra weeks a year we didn't pay for as other can't make it etc...

Edited October 28, 2022 by robtheplod

[Hudds Lad]

If it’s fully managed then i’d imagine your only problems will be the other owners, everything else will be taken care of but this will come with a higher price tag. We were a private syndicate and it was way cheaper, but personality clashes and arguments over what to spend on did happen a lot at the AGM.

Make sure the week allocation is something your happy with (how they are chosen if not fixed, how the pecking order rotates etc.)

Also the boat location. Does it have a fixed base, how often does this change, who decides this? It could be at a marina a half hours drive away which is lovely, but then next year move to one five hours drive away, would that still be ok?

 

Its a great next step into boating after you’ve been hiring IMO.

[Telstar17]

39 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Indeed. We had a share at BCBM before we bought Water Lily. Interesting bunch of people on the syndicate - some really just want to turn up and go on hols, others love polishing the woodwork and get upset if they see scratches.

 

The good bit about the boat they are looking at is winter maintenance is included in the monthly fee - always better. Keep in mind that on occasions something will occur which needs extra payments from members, such as repaints/new engine etc... but split 12 ways softens the blow!  Might be an idea to ask if anything is planned imminently on this, as sometimes members leave just before major expenditures....

 

Make sure they are happy with the allocation of weeks each year and it works for them. They may even get extra for free - we often had two or three extra weeks a year we didn't pay for as other can't make it etc...

 

 

this is really helpful thank you!

1 minute ago, Hudds Lad said:

If it’s fully managed then i’d imagine your only problems will be the other owners, everything else will be taken care of but this will come with a higher price tag. We were a private syndicate and it was way cheaper, but personality clashes and arguments over what to spend on did happen a lot at the AGM.

Make sure the week allocation is something your happy with (how they are chosen if not fixed, how the pecking order rotates etc.)

Also the boat location. Does it have a fixed base, how often does this change, who decides this? It could be at a marina a half hours drive away which is lovely, but then next year move to one five hours drive away, would that still be ok?

 

Its a great next step into boating after you’ve been hiring IMO.

I will make sure they ask these questions! thats so much - one of them is able to take holidays whenever so most systems should work for them but will make sure its convenient

[Pie Eater]

A lot depends on who you are sharing with. Before we bought our boat we went to a shared ownership day and discussed everything.

 

What put us off was the group we we looking at were arguing about whether to make a mahogany box to store the tiller when it was not being used.

 

This made us realise that everyone had their own ideas about what should be done on a shared boat.

[ditchcrawler]

12 minutes ago, Pie Eater said:

A lot depends on who you are sharing with. Before we bought our boat we went to a shared ownership day and discussed everything.

 

What put us off was the group we we looking at were arguing about whether to make a mahogany box to store the tiller when it was not being used.

 

This made us realise that everyone had their own ideas about what should be done on a shared boat.

That is one thing with a share boat, its not yours. You can't change things.

We use to collect loads of cleaning stuff, everyone brought their own with them and left on board what they didn't use, no one liked to use it as it was someone elses. One couple took the microwave off and left it in their car for the fortnight as they didn't use it and it took up space, when we all found out it got given away, no one used it.

Looking at the ones I see for sale I wonder how you spent £12K a year on running costs.
 

If you are buying you are in a good bargaining situation as even if the seller isn't using it its still costing them. 

Another point is where is it being moored and are there plans to move it in the next year or so.

Edited October 28, 2022 by ditchcrawler

[matty40s]

23 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

 

Also the boat location. Does it have a fixed base, how often does this change, who decides this? It could be at a marina a half hours drive away which is lovely, but then next year move to one five hours drive away, would that still be ok?

 

Phoenix was based at Gayton (another BCBM base) until about 2 years ago, so I would think that after a couple of years doing the same routes, you will all get the chance to agree a location change.

Another way of seeing further afield, is to get the changeover points at a different location, some of the Gayton share boats agree a Nene, Ouse tour between parties taking a much longer period out of the marina, and doing the 2 week changovers along the route.

[BEngo]

It is interesting that none of the respondents so far has said anything about the things to look for in the  boat itself.  I would endorse it all.  Having boated with friends who shared and seen other syndicates operate from our home mooring,   the group dynamic is much the most important key to success.

 

IMO every group needs a facilitator or chairman type, who will find the consensus and keep the group in reasonable harmony;  then there needs to be a practical type, knowledgeable about boat systems,  one who is comfortable dealing with boatyards and fitters, planning the annual  maintenance and as far as is possible advising the sharers after a failure.   Also useful is an organiser type, to sort out the time allocations, deal with  basing arrangements and generally know what the cunning plan involves.

Finally a treasurer person who will ensure the monies add up.

 

All the above assumes you are a diy syndicate.  The boat management companies will fill all the roles above, but will extract their pound of flesh in return.

 

Good Luck.  Sharing, in the right group for you, is a good way to go boating.

 

N

 

[davem399]

I’ve had a share in our boat since it’s launch 20 years ago.  As others have said, the experience very much depends on the group of owners.  We have been lucky in that our owners over the years have been easy to get on with.  One of our previous owners had a share in another boat as well, and he said they other set of owners would debate the most trivial item till the cows came home.  Their AGM would go on and on, whereas ours was a much more slick and successful one.

 

Being an ex-Ownerships boat, we stuck with the O/S rotating holiday chart along with school holiday shares for those with kids at school.  We also tend to move bases every two or three years in order to cruise a different part of the system.

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, matty40s said:

 

Another way of seeing further afield, is to get the changeover points at a different location, some of the Gayton share boats agree a Nene, Ouse tour between parties taking a much longer period out of the marina, and doing the 2 week changovers along the route.

We were lucky in that respect as the owners both sides of us were happy to do it but the others wernt. We also use to drive each others cars, so whoever was on the boat their car was at the Braunston marina. I have done handovers on the G&C, K&A, Ware, Bollington among other places.

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, BEngo said:

It is interesting that none of the respondents so far has said anything about the things to look for in the  boat itself.  I would endorse it all.  Having boated with friends who shared and seen other syndicates operate from our home mooring,   the group dynamic is much the most important key to success.

 

IMO every group needs a facilitator or chairman type, who will find the consensus and keep the group in reasonable harmony;  then there needs to be a practical type, knowledgeable about boat systems,  one who is comfortable dealing with boatyards and fitters, planning the annual  maintenance and as far as is possible advising the sharers after a failure.   Also useful is an organiser type, to sort out the time allocations, deal with  basing arrangements and generally know what the cunning plan involves.

Finally a treasurer person who will ensure the monies add up.

 

All the above assumes you are a diy syndicate.  The boat management companies will fill all the roles above, but will extract their pound of flesh in return.

 

One of the Gayton share boats came to us for a couple of repair jobs after cruising damage, and also asked us to look at the flue, it was badly corroded and had holes.

The rest of the syndicate refused to help pay, so it was down to the chaps who were out to sort it.

Edited October 28, 2022 by matty40s

[robtheplod]

2 hours ago, BEngo said:

It is interesting that none of the respondents so far has said anything about the things to look for in the  boat itself. 

 

The boats themselves tend to be very well looked after and equipped - engines serviced as needed, paint jobs done etc, often without toooooo much thought to cost (since its all shared).... sometimes this makes the syndicate lazy - we paid £16k for a roof paint and when we next went on it next it looked just OK and the metal shackles were still the old rusty ones!

[David Mack]

Share boat schemes vary. At one end of the scale and professionally managed, the individual owners are just like hirers - turn up at the base, take the boat for a week then return it for hire base staff to service and prepare for the next user, get professionals in to do all the maintance and repairs, and the individual owners barely have contact with each other. At the other end you have boats owned by a bunch of people who sometimes go boating together, don't have allotted weeks, do all their own maintenance, handover remotely (or leave the boat on a towpath mooring between users), and socialise beyond boat occasions. But wherever your scheme is on that scale, shared ownership does involve an element of compromise when it comes to agreeing work, standards of maintenance, and how much to spend.

Edited October 28, 2022 by David Mack

[SteveLevis]

As per all the above comment really. I would not be interested in the "continual cruising" option, (ie no home base marina), better to have a "fixed base" IMHO although this does restrict your cruising options, but in our syndicate we had an AGM and every 3 years or so and voted on a move to another marina. (This may be more of a problem if you are "managed" as this may restrict which marinas you can use). If you are buying into a "home based" marina boat it is worth checking if the synddicate have any plans for a move. anytime soon.

ie you may think tthe current marina is a great location, but oncce you have joined you may find out the syndicate plan to move it next season to somewhere that may be less conveinient.

 

Also important to know if managed, or self managed. Self managed is great, (and saves about £500 per year each), BUT you have to have able and willing syndicate members! When we joined our self managed syndicate all members were keen and happy to "share the workload", but over time some of the original members left and were replaced with (mainly), syndicate members who just treated it as a cheap hire boat and were not prepared to "do their share" leaving all the work to a few willing members. In hindsite it would probably have been better to spend the extra money and get a management company involved?

 

Whatever boat you buy into make sure there is a healthy "sinking fund" as you don't want to end up paying for a share of a new engine or repaint during your first year or two of cruising!

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by SteveLevis

[frahkn]

4 hours ago, davem399 said:

I’ve had a share in our boat since it’s launch 20 years ago.  As others have said, the experience very much depends on the group of owners.  We have been lucky in that our owners over the years have been easy to get on with.  One of our previous owners had a share in another boat as well, and he said they other set of owners would debate the most trivial item till the cows came home.  Their AGM would go on and on, whereas ours was a much more slick and successful one.

 

Being an ex-Ownerships boat, we stuck with the O/S rotating holiday chart along with school holiday shares for those with kids at school.  We also tend to move bases every two or three years in order to cruise a different part of the system.

In the 11 years that I was with Ownerships, I never once attended an AGM. At the time I argued a lot as a requirement of my job so I had no interest in doing it in my spare time.

 

It worked for me but I realise that it wouldn't for many.

[howardang]

5 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

That is one thing with a share boat, its not yours. You can't change things.

We use to collect loads of cleaning stuff, everyone brought their own with them and left on board what they didn't use, no one liked to use it as it was someone elses. One couple took the microwave off and left it in their car for the fortnight as they didn't use it and it took up space, when we all found out it got given away, no one used it.

Looking at the ones I see for sale I wonder how you spent £12K a year on running costs.
 

If you are buying you are in a good bargaining situation as even if the seller isn't using it its still costing them. 

Another point is where is it being moored and are there plans to move it in the next year or so.

I'm surprised that one of your owners put the microwave in the car. We used to call it the Electronic Bread Bin on every share boat I have been involved with - 4 in total. As a bread bin it came in very useful and released space elsewhere for stowage. Over the years we have come across one or two "off the wall" share ideas such as one couple who always took their own chemical toilet with them despite the boat being equipped with two pump out toilets, and we also heard of a couple who used to take the carpets up throughout the boat and fit their own carpets which they brought with them each holiday! I never did work out why.

 

Over the years we have shared with a number of syndicates and I can honestly say that with very few exceptions our fellow sharers were a great bunch of people and we had very few disagreements. We have come across the occasional sharers who tried to treat the boat as if it was a hire boat but they were usually in the minority.

The issue of everyone buying their own cleaning gear is a common problem and it was something which was raised regularly at the AGM . We usually made it a rule that you took your own gear home with you which seemed to go some way to solving  the problem. 

 

I can certainly recommend share boating, either if you are unwilling or unable to buy a boat outright, or if work commitments makes it impractical. We started out while we were both working with the firm intention of buying our own boat when we retired, but slowly came round to the idea of buying two shares (we had two shares for about 8 years in total) and used the cash that we saved for other interests. Share boating is not for everyone but we certainly found it a great compromise and we had no regrets over the 22 years we were involved in sharing, starting in the Ownerships scheme until it folded and then as self managed syndicates, which personally I preferred.

 

Howard

Edited October 28, 2022 by howardang

[PeterScott]

7 hours ago, Telstar17 said:

... look at a share boat tomorrow with some people who are thinking of purchasing a share...  BCBM [Phoenix] ... advice on shareboating in general or this boat in particular ...

Boatshare has a listing for (an earlier sale??)  here, and lots of other options across the spectrum of management options and prices. If you're thinking of taking this particular plunge, it's different from buying a complete boat, but there are as many shared-options for something that fits-in with your job/family/lifestyle/dog.

 

BCBM are a good bunch, afaict, and they have kept a managed-boatshare system going for 15years or so.  As it says in their budget document, they charge £5,543 for their services for a year. It sounds a lot: for the money: they will be the people tearing-their-hair-out to get you (the shared-owner) afloat on the date you expect to go boating.

 

As a customer with the priority for holidays-at-the-time-you-booked them, then quiz them about how many holidays (Covid-excepted) are disrupted or cancelled at the last moment. Phoenix is thirteen years old - so there is a (yearly-increasing) chance that some of the systems might fail in midyear - engine, pumpout toilet, engine-cooling system, accidental cilling, accidental-blowing-up-of gas cylinder and hence internal partitions, are some that we have experienced or heard-of during our 30-years of shared boats. (Not to mention a fire needing a six-month refit) Whatever the problem, it may only take a fortnight to fix: but that may be the complete-year's holiday for one of the shared-owners, while all the others aren't affected at all (beyond a shared, extra, five-thousand-pound bill). ....

 

Also notice that the age-of-the-boat and age-of-BCBM anre not far apart, so their experience of running older boats may be less. They have taken on some of the older ex-Ownerships boats from the early 1990s, so they may have a good answer based on these.

 

The other-owners are an important consideration, and this space is insufficient for a many of the entertaining tales. I liked Howard's replacement-carpets above: one of ours, for each of their-trips, removed every piece of bedding, crockery, cooking equipment, television to be replaced by theirs-from-home. Another installed a very-nice ship's bell near the stern: sadly he was a short tar and everybody else banged their head on it, but were too polite to complain ... Overall most very boat-proud and put themselves out to hand over a perfect boat to the next owners. And there can effectively be a competition to make it even-more-perfect ... That is much more likely than those who leave the washing-up for someone-else-to-do ...

 

Notice how much you pay for the share, and the monthly contributions. All easy to understand when you are taking holidays. If you can't do it any more - old age, bad leg, family circumstances, bored-with-boating, bought own boat (etc) you will want to leave: ask them how this works. Who sells the share, and how much do you need to pay while the share is being sold. We had a share on-the-market for four years ...

 

Ask about how a new boatyard-base is organised. We found we could have a majority-to-move-away, but no majority for any one new loacation. More important is how BCBM manage the boat when it is somewhere-different, and do they conntinue to tear-their-hair-out to get you afloat?

 

Also fun-to-ask is what happens when an untutored (/rogue) shared-owner takes the boat to an uninsured waterway (crossing the Wash / Bristol to Sharpness) and sinks it to the detriment of commercial shipping. The boat is lost, and the navigation authority is looking for someone to sue for their costs: you are probably, legally, a partnership (not a limited-liability company as one of the old schemes set up each boat), so in principle the owners are jointly and severally liable: so the-lawyers-in-big-houses can persue the richest owner for the total cost.  As I say, it's a fun question but hasn't yet happened to a shared boat ...

 

Overall we have had thirty brilliant years, starting with thirteen owners in a managed scheme, and now down to two and self-managed. Hmmm. Maybe we should have had our new bottom when we had a dozen to share-the-cost ...

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, PeterScott said:

And there can effectively be a competition to make it even-more-perfect ... That is much more likely than those who leave the washing-up for someone-else-to-do ...

A friend of mine used to help out on turnround day at the local hire boat yard. She was instructed to always empty and clean the kitchen cupboards, wash and dry the crockery, cutlery and cooking utensils and put them back in the cupboards. Reason for doing all this when most hirers left the boat very clean, was that one lot of hirers had left the plates and dishes looking clean and tidy in neat piles in the cupboard, only for the next hirers to find that only the top plate on each pile had been washed...

[Machpoint005]

When we had a boat share, the mechanic who looked after all the maintenance summed up the Owners' Meeting very well.

 

"By all means attend, if you want to spent two hours discussing f***ing curtains".

 

[Jerra]

One thing which doesn't seem to have been mentioned is, does the layout suit the crew/cruising you are intending e.g. if a 6 berth can all sleeping areas access a toilet without passing through another sleeping area.

[Annie cariad]

Yet to meet anyone on a share boat that was not either trying to pretend it was not a share boat or worse were snobby about own boat ownership v hirers ...we it's only one step up.

[Graham Davis]

Another thing to consider is what arrangements have been made if the boat is unavailable for some reason when you have it booked.
On the share boat we had this happened to us once, when the engine had totally failed and we ended up with a Canaltime boat instead. Not a problem other than it was at a totally different base to where we had been going out from, so we had to re-arrange meeting friends for a meal one evening, but atleast we did still get our 2 weeks holiday.

[ditchcrawler]

12 hours ago, Annie cariad said:

Yet to meet anyone on a share boat that was not either trying to pretend it was not a share boat or worse were snobby about own boat ownership v hirers ...we it's only one step up.

Funny, lots of share boats I see have a big notice in the window advertising shares for sale

[cuthound]

I had a 22 year period of shared ownership, until I retired and bought my own boat. Overall it is an excellent way to see the system and learn about boats and canalling. 

 

I still have several friends who were previously co-owners.

 

As others have said, it is the other co-owners who make or break the scheme 

 

Three things I found useful.

 

Agree a voting system of say two thirds of owners to.agree a change rather than a simple majority. Some people don't like being put under pressure to make a decision, which often happens on a close vote.

 

Appoint a strong chairperson to keep the annual owners meeting on track, unless you really do want to spend hours discussing curtains.

 

Get one co-owner to act as a "clerk of works", who.will check the quality of the winter works and sign the work off. Boatyards are very variable when it comes to what they consider acceptable standards of work.