Boat mover daily rates?

[Mike Tee]

That sounds very reasonable

[LadyG]

19 hours ago, Peanut said:

No, I don't do ironing, but if you have a worthwhile business, you need an accountant, and doing your books, arranging work, ordering stuff and the like takes work time.  Most people like to get paid for their work, that is in a worthwhile business.

 

If you spend your life in employment, then you will never realise the true costs of employment and of running the business.

 

Noddyboater is right, the fee quoted is derisory, it sounds like a hobby, or “pin money,” not a business.

I'm not sure you need an accountant for such a simple business model . Any paid bookeeping is going to be £1000, but a software package is about £100, and filling in the self certification is a few hours work.

There's no sales and purchase ledgers involved. Just buy a duplicate book from Smith's.

.

Edited October 28, 2022 by LadyG

[LadyG]

23 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

I plan based on a 12 hour net cruising day using CanalPlan defaults and use a day rate that equates to something close to minimum living wage with an allowance for genuine expenses such as travel. I build that into the rate so I may win or lose but I don’t reward or penalise people because their boat may or may not easy for me to access by nothing more than circumstance.

 

I am sometimes assisted by my son and I share my fee with him. Food is at my own expense.

 

Only when I’ve been asked to do work on major rivers do I explicitly price for a second person on safety grounds and that person is also directly employed by the client. So that’s all up front and understood from the outset.

Twelve hour days need to charge a lot more than £100, near £200. You are really going to be pretty slick if you can keep the Canalplan rate up, for example the canal I am on has water shortage , I'd guess I'm travelling at about three mpg, "leaves on the line" causing extra problems.

[matty40s]

59 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Twelve hour days need to charge a lot more than £100, near £200. You are really going to be pretty slick if you can keep the Canalplan rate up, for example the canal I am on has water shortage , I'd guess I'm travelling at about three mpg, "leaves on the line" causing extra problems.

You dont need to charge any more than that. Boat moving isnt like a normal job, you are on the boat until it is delivered, unless something like a river flood or lock closure stops progress, so you might as well use all daylight hours to proceed.

You would eat anyway at home, so why should the customer pay you to eat.

It is fairly easy to beat Canalplan times on narrow canals, and to equal them on wide, not by going fast, but by operating efficiently and smoothly.

There were a variety of reasons I stopped doing it, most important was ailing parents meant I am having to travel oop North a lot, along with being pretty much stacked out with other boat related works.

Do I miss it, absolutely, nothing better than being paid to cruise the system on a massive variety of boats.

[PaulJ]

14 hours ago, matty40s said:

You dont need to charge any more than that. Boat moving isnt like a normal job, you are on the boat until it is delivered, unless something like a river flood or lock closure stops progress, so you might as well use all daylight hours to proceed.

Do I miss it, absolutely, nothing better than being paid to cruise the system on a massive variety of boats.

Bang on. You dont do it to get rich.

I dont know how many times a week strangers tell me what a 'lovely job youve got' 

Its not a job so much as a (fairly nomadic and very random) life choice which happens to suit me very well. I love living life not knowing where Im going all the time ,on what or when.

Same as the chap (or chapess) who delivers your coal.

Does tickle me though that (often woefully inexperienced) people think they not only get to be paid to stay on someone elses pride and joy but should be paid vast sums to leisurely cruise..

Cheaper rates means you can competively move boats longer distances otherwise you might as well go by road..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike Todd]

23 hours ago, MtB said:

On the other hand 'one man businesses' tend not to have that level of overhead to bear, as the one man does his own book keeping, admin etc. Certainly he needs to put some aside to cover holidays and time off and sick pay, and a myriad minor overheads the average PAYE bod never has a clue even exists. 

One of the many routes to disaster for small businesses, especially those that look to grow:

 

If you enter a market on the basis of pricing your product (or your labour) by omitting the costs of overheads then it is difficult to rest the price base once you need to pay someone else to do that work, simply on the basis of scale.

 

It is also demeaning to suppliers to imagine that you are meeting their minimum wage expectations if you fail to pay for necessary overheads (an example of really bad practice occured in the domiciliary care industry where travel between clients during a working day was not paid for)

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

One of the many routes to disaster for small businesses, especially those that look to grow:

 

But do boat movers want to grow their business or are they content working alone, not employing anyone, doing a job they enjoy and making enough money to suit their life style. 

https://bemorewithless.com/the-story-of-the-mexican-fisherman/

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

One of the many routes to disaster for small businesses, especially those that look to grow:

 

If you enter a market on the basis of pricing your product (or your labour) by omitting the costs of overheads then it is difficult to rest the price base once you need to pay someone else to do that work, simply on the basis of scale.

 

It is also demeaning to suppliers to imagine that you are meeting their minimum wage expectations if you fail to pay for necessary overheads (an example of really bad practice occured in the domiciliary care industry where travel between clients during a working day was not paid for)

 

I am sure that many people are happy to price their work in a way that gives them an acceptable income rather than looking to maximise it. There is a lot of non-monitory value being your own boss with no manages to mess you about and take the mick. Likewise, being in a position to do a job you are happy to own rather than meet the demands of a company and its organization. Not everyone wants to build an empire or grab as much money as they can, being cintent is, I think, far more important.

[Momac]

It sounds like people who move boats don't do it for the money , which can only be good for the boat owner. 

 

I do a little work outside of my main job, although nothing to do with boating , that probably works out at about the same rates stated .  So I do get it that folks do some extra work for the experience rather than for any great financial gain.

 

A friend's son (with other crew) moved a yacht from the UK to the the canary islands . He did get a couple of nights stay in a 5 star hotel out of it at the destination  and the flight home of course. But I doubt the rate he received  per day reflected the true time commitment.

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, MartynG said:

A friend's son (with other crew) moved a yacht from the UK to the the canary islands . He did get a couple of nights stay in a 5 star hotel out of it at the destination  and the flight home of course. But I doubt the rate he received  per day reflected the true time commitment.

 

Most (yacht) delivery crews I know simply do it for bed and board (the skipper is normally paid as it is his job). To proceed with your boating qualifications you must do so many sea miles (not just cumulative) and so many nights at sea (not just )cumulative. And it is easier (cheaper) to do it as delivery crew than it is to pay for your passage as you would elsewhere.

 

 

Example :

 

 

In order to be qualified to take the examination you must have the following logged mileage / experience and certifications;

1. 50 days at sea and 2,500 miles including
2. at least 5 passages over 60 miles measured along the rhumb line from the port of departure to the destination, acting as skipper for at least two of these passages and
3. including two which have involved overnight passages.
4. 5 days experience as skipper.

In addition the RYA require that;

1. Half the qualifying sea time must be conducted in tidal waters.
2. All qualifying seatime must be within 10 years prior to the exam.
3. Candidates must hold a GMDSS Short Range Certificate (SRC) or higher grade of marine radio certificate.
4. Candidates must hold a valid first aid certificate

The minimum age for candidates is 18 years of age.

 

Bear in mind that these are the bare minimum requirements for taking the examination and whilst candidates pass with this minimum criteria it should be noted that, whilst you may have met the criteria necessary to pass the 8 - 12 hour examination, you are still relatively inexperienced.

 

After all, collecting a certificate is one thing; being a confident and competent skipper offshore is quite another.

 

[Captain Pegg]

On 28/10/2022 at 10:50, ditchcrawler said:

Funny how things happen, this just came up on Facebook

"

having my boat skippered down to us in Gloucester from rugby .

only costing 1300 including diesel and an extra skipper for the river Severn . One week total ."

 

On 28/10/2022 at 13:29, Mike Tee said:

That sounds very reasonable

 

The price stated above must include items paid to the broker, such as fuel, as it's more than the pure boat moving cost. The journey requested was also Stowe Hill to Saul Junction which is further than Rugby to Gloucester.

 

For a few reasons it was actually a relatively high quote. The vagaries of river transit in autumn, lock opening times and the shorter daylight hours, combined with moorings relative to flights of locks all being part of it.

 

It was planned to go via Droitwich where I had the ability to put the boat in a safe and secure haven very close to my home should the Severn not be available and to continue from there.

 

I normally plan on a maximum of 9 hours for the first and last day and 12 hours for intermediate days using CanalPlan defaults but given the shorter daylight hours I used 8 and 11 for this trip. This gave five days to get from Stowe Hill to Droitwich.

 

I then planned for two days from Droitwich to Saul Junction (via Hawford) with an additional day's cost added for there to be a crew of two on the Severn. The additional person being an RYA IW Helmsman qualified person with experience of the passage into Gloucester, and not just anybody.

 

As it transpired the trip was done in five and a bit days via Worcester directly down the W&B and had two people on board throughout, firstly my son and latterly my nominated crew member (employed directly by the client). Discounting cruising in darkness was wise as it transpired the boat did not have a working headlight and in the event the only cruising in darkness was to get from Calcutt to Stockton Top on the first day.

 

The most 'interesting' thing about the trip was that the boat had a brand new and unused composting toilet. Hence I had the dilemma of initiating it and leaving the new owners a lovely housewarming present or using CRT and public facilities. I chose the latter hence the need to moor at a specific site each night and Stockton Top giving the ability to walk to the Blue Lias (the Boat only opens Wed - Sun).  The overnight stops were Hatton top, Alvechurch boatyard (we blagged a free night on the wharf in return for patronage of the Weighbridge), Perdiswell Park and Gloucester Docks. The eventual destination was a mooring the client had purchased after the initial quote and was short of Saul Junction.

 

Someone else may have quoted cheaper and opted for the route via the Avon (theoretically only about 4 hours shorter and requiring an additional licence) but with the potential to add risk in relation to both what was the owner's new home and themselves. 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Captain Pegg

[PaulJ]

19 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

Someone else may have quoted cheaper and opted for the route via the Avon (theoretically only about 4 hours shorter and requiring an additional licence) but with the potential to add risk in relation to both what was the owner's new home and themselves. 

 

 

You missed out on a very nice run there- got off the Avon yesterday afternoon. 

All looked a bit dodge last week when it shot up but then went down as quick as it went up and was not only almost deserted but all bar 2 locks were set in my favour as far as Evesham.

All mainly done in a T shirt too ..

[Captain Pegg]

5 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

You missed out on a very nice run there- got off the Avon yesterday afternoon. 

All looked a bit dodge last week when it shot up but then went down as quick as it went up and was not only almost deserted but all bar 2 locks were set in my favour as far as Evesham.

All mainly done in a T shirt too ..

 

It's been pleasantly warm this last week. I did discuss going via the Avon once it transpired Bevere lock was closed and my contingency wasn't so straightforward but it was still a little iffy weather wise when I set off early last week so I stuck to the W&B route and still had the option of Droitwich if the Severn was high. Plus I know the W&B really well and can nearly half CanalPlan times through Tardebigge with someone to set ahead.

 

Having done the south Stratford both ways a few weeks back I wasn't too bothered about missing that out. It's nice to look at but not great to operate.

 

The Severn was still amber below Upper Lode - possibly because it being tidal over the past week has held water in.

[PaulJ]

45 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

Having done the south Stratford both ways a few weeks back I wasn't too bothered about missing that out. It's nice to look at but not great to operate.

 

The Severn was still amber below Upper Lode - possibly because it being tidal over the past week has held water in.

Twas a bit hard going although with the rain it was probably a bit easier than a few weeks ago (barring the bloody leaves)-Wilmcote had loads of water (and vollies)-not helped by someone coming down immediately behind -made some of the bywashes a bit interesting and needing back doors shut too as was on a 70fter and a fair bit coming over the top gates.

Was watching Severn levels as was hoping to be picking up from Sharpness immediately after Evesham so possibly would have passed you going uphill -but looks like not meant to be...Ah well-thats random for you 😀

[lxs602]

On 27/10/2022 at 18:11, noddyboater said:

I'm interested to know what the professionals charge as I've done it several times for voluntary/beer money. 

Why do you ask, have you got something to relocate? 

 

I am looking to buy a boat which is in Rugby. It needs to spend a few days in a dry dock for welding, and then will be lived on in-and-around south Birmingham. It might end up needing moving up to Birmingham or Dudley to come out of the water, as I'm having trouble trying to find a dry dock en route or nearby (Fenny's dry dock - nothing available, Charity dock Bedworth - nothing for a few weeks, Yelvertoft - dry docks closed for winter...). I don't think I will have time to move it, as I'll probably need the time off to spend working on it. 

 

It's a 60' narrowboat. Can anyone help?

 

L

Edited October 31, 2022 by lxs602

[Victor Vectis]

54 minutes ago, lxs602 said:

 

I am looking to buy a boat which is in Rugby. It needs to spend a few days in a dry dock for welding, and then will be lived on in-and-around south Birmingham. It might end up needing moving up to Birmingham or Dudley to come out of the water, as I'm having trouble trying to find a dry dock en route or nearby (Fenny's dry dock - nothing available, Charity dock Bedworth - nothing for a few weeks, Yelvertoft - dry docks closed for winter...). I don't think I will have time to move it, as I'll probably need the time off to spend working on it.

 

A few weeks?

I reckon it would take at least a month to move all the stuff in front of where I think there might be a drydock hidden!

😀

[PaulJ]

1 hour ago, lxs602 said:

 

I am looking to buy a boat which is in Rugby. It needs to spend a few days in a dry dock for welding, and then will be lived on in-and-around south Birmingham. It might end up needing moving up to Birmingham or Dudley to come out of the water, as I'm having trouble trying to find a dry dock en route or nearby (Fenny's dry dock - nothing available, Charity dock Bedworth - nothing for a few weeks, Yelvertoft - dry docks closed for winter...). I don't think I will have time to move it, as I'll probably need the time off to spend working on it. 

 

It's a 60' narrowboat. Can anyone help?

 

L

Have you tried Lime Farm- not a drydock but a hoist and know they weld.

[ditchcrawler]

Or Terry Yates at Newbold.

[George and Dragon]

10 hours ago, lxs602 said:

 

I am looking to buy a boat which is in Rugby. It needs to spend a few days in a dry dock for welding, and then will be lived on in-and-around south Birmingham. It might end up needing moving up to Birmingham or Dudley to come out of the water, as I'm having trouble trying to find a dry dock en route or nearby (Fenny's dry dock - nothing available, Charity dock Bedworth - nothing for a few weeks, Yelvertoft - dry docks closed for winter...). I don't think I will have time to move it, as I'll probably need the time off to spend working on it. 

 

It's a 60' narrowboat. Can anyone help?

 

L

Not aware of a dry dock at Yelvertoft. They do have a slipway and hard standing. There is a dry dock at Crick and also at Braunston.

[Tony Brooks]

Slipway at Calcutt and they do at least minor welding jobs, probably larger ones as well.

[matty40s]

22 hours ago, PaulJ said:

Have you tried Lime Farm- not a drydock but a hoist and know they weld.

Lime Farm have a very good reputation as welders, and have invested a lot of money in the hoist and strengthened dock sides which get boats out and up high enough to do baseplate works as well as side plates.

Yelvertoft do NOT have a dry dock, and their slipway took away one of my favourite moorings

 

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by matty40s

[Phlea]

Related to this thread I think, I'm having a boat moved down south soon on a 'day rate' but was wondering how this compares to cranage and road transport? What's a ball park figure for this?

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

31 minutes ago, Phlea said:

Related to this thread I think, I'm having a boat moved down south soon on a 'day rate' but was wondering how this compares to cranage and road transport? What's a ball park figure for this?

 

 

 

 

 

Remember that not only do you have to pay your boat skipper (£150 ? / day) you may well be using £20+ per day of Diesel.

 

It very much depends where from and to & do they have loading facilities, you then have a 'days hire of truck and driver' (even if it is only (say) a 4 or 5 hour trip he cannot do anything else, and you then have the unloading crane costs.

 

I reckon that truck costs are  probably around £500- £600 for most trips and then crane costs at each end.

 

When we moved (38 foot x 14 foot and 15 feet high) it needed a special truck that could hydraulically lower to 100mm ground clearance so as to be able to go under motorway bridges. It was a 2-day trip to do 205 miles, because of the size it had to have a convoy support vehicle and driver and was only allowed to travel during non rush hour traffic and had to file a 'flight plan' with the Police.

The cost was £2200 for Truck, support vehicle, 2 drivers, ovenight stop for truck and van.

 

Add at each end £180 (x2) for loading and unloading.

 

So not a typical Narrow boat.

 

I reckon £1000 would shift a narrowboat pretty much anywhere - unless you had to hire a specific 100 tonne crane (because it may be a long reach to get the boat off the truck and into the water) which will be several  £100's.

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[PD1964]

26 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It very much depends where from and to & do they have loading facilities, you then have a 'days hire of truck and driver' (even if it is only (say) a 4 or 5 hour trip he cannot do anything else, and you then have the unloading crane costs.

 

I reckon that truck costs are  probably around £500- £600 for most trips and then crane costs at each end.

 

When we moved (38 foot x 14 foot and 15 feet high) it neede a special truck that could lower to 100mm ground clearance so as to be able to go under motorway bridges. It was a 2-day trip to do 205 miles because of the size it had to have a convoy support vehicle and driver and was only allowed to travel during non rush hour traffic and had to file a 'flight plan' with the Police.

The cost was £2200 for Truck, support vehicle, 2 drivers, ovenight stop for truck and van.

 

Add at each end £180 (x2) for loading and unloading.

 

So not a typical Narrow boat.

 

I reckon £1000 would shift a narrowboat pretty much anywhere - unless you had to hire a specific 100 tonne crane  which will be several  £100's.

 

 

 

“Remember that not only do you have to pay your boat skipper (£150 ? / day) you may well be using£20+ per day of Diesel”

What!! On the Canal???

How many years ago was this? You’ll find times and prices have changed. 4 year ago 100 ton crane to get in daily rate £1300, now £2400 in the yard next to me. I was surprised.

Edited November 24, 2022 by PD1964

[PaulJ]

32 minutes ago, Phlea said:

Related to this thread I think, I'm having a boat moved down south soon on a 'day rate' but was wondering how this compares to cranage and road transport? What's a ball park figure for this?

 

 

Cant you get a fixed price to take the guesswork out?

Its not hard to work out how long any trip is going to take- you are not looking for minute accuracy-just to the nearest day or half day..