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Cruise Without a Licence


Old Son

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My boat is moored in a private marina so no CaRT licence required. I have had a river only licence for the past 10 years but have not used the boat on the river since the start of the pandemic. The boat is now sold, and I have been asked by the buyer if I would take him for a 2-hour cruise to show him how the boat handles etc.

 

This is probably cheeky, and I know I probably should, but is it worth me paying for a week's CaRT licence for a 2-hour cruise. If I get seen, what is the worst that can happen?

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If the boat is now sold surely it should be up to the new owner to get any necessary licences etc. I'm not even sure of the legallity of licencing a boat that does not belong to you.

 

Tam

Edited by Tam & Di
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8 minutes ago, Old Son said:

My boat is moored in a private marina so no CaRT licence required. I have had a river only licence for the past 10 years but have not used the boat on the river since the start of the pandemic. The boat is now sold, and I have been asked by the buyer if I would take him for a 2-hour cruise to show him how the boat handles etc.

 

This is probably cheeky, and I know I probably should, but is it worth me paying for a week's CaRT licence for a 2-hour cruise. If I get seen, what is the worst that can happen?

If I have understood you correctly, the boat is now not owned by you so the responsibility for the licence lies with the new owner, so whatever may happen it would be down to them not you.

 

Howard

 

Overlapped with Tam's post.

Edited by howardang
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Completion should be this coming Friday and the new owner wants to go out on the Saturday, theoretically, he will be the new owner if everything goes as it should. Once I know completion has taken place, I will issue the change of particulars to CaRT. As far as they know I will be the owner so no problem in me buying the week licence.

 

If the boat was spotted on the river, I presume I would get a notification from CaRT but what else might they do?

 

If it's going to aggravation for me or the new owner I would sooner pay.

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I would have thought "completion" relates to when the money goes through, it's just an agreed handover date - it's not like a house sale when it's an official legal thing. No such thing for boats, really. So why not change ownership officially, as far as CRT is concerned, on the Sunday instead of the Friday? That's 30th Oct, so you still get the licence refund from November.

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26 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

If the boat is not licenced when it should be then it is likely it won't be insured.

Is this true?

Can you provide a link to insurance documents that state this as fact.

 

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50 minutes ago, Old Son said:

My boat is moored in a private marina so no CaRT licence required. I have had a river only licence for the past 10 years but have not used the boat on the river since the start of the pandemic. The boat is now sold, and I have been asked by the buyer if I would take him for a 2-hour cruise to show him how the boat handles etc.

 

This is probably cheeky, and I know I probably should, but is it worth me paying for a week's CaRT licence for a 2-hour cruise. If I get seen, what is the worst that can happen?

Simples. Make some false numbers up on plates and tape over the boats name :D

Plenty on the cut with no name or number on so it must be legal.

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5 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Is this true?

Can you provide a link to insurance documents that state this as fact.

 

https://www.craftinsure.com/sample-policy?desc=narrowboat-insurance&cat=8

 

Craftinsure sample policy wording.

 

You have agreed:

  • Boat Name is constructed of fibreglass, aluminium or steel and does not exceed 80ft in length.
  • The permanent home mooring of Boat Name is in the United Kingdom.
  • Boat Name will be maintained in a proper state of repair and seaworthiness, and in the case of trailers, roadworthiness, and will exercise due care and diligence in safeguarding your boat and property.
  • You possess a current Canal & River Trust or Environment Agency Licence, or the equivalent Licence from the local Navigation Authority as appropriate, and a current Boat Safety Certificate. In addition, if Boat Name is over 30 years old and over 23ft in length, you have in your possession a survey report not more than five years old from a qualified surveyor, with all recommendations complied with (or a survey carried out within the past 7 years if the boat is already insured by you with Craftinsure).
  • The boat is not a static houseboat.
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If the boat were licensed, it might have been better to agree the handover date as 31st October, then you can claim a licence refund including the whole of November and the new owner can licence the boat from 1st November.  Otherwise you both lose out.

 

As it appears the boat is no licensed, you could still agree a 31st October handover date with the new owner's licence starting on 1st November.  Then just do the demo on or after 1st November.

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25 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Simples. Make some false numbers up on plates and tape over the boats name :D

Plenty on the cut with no name or number on so it must be legal.

 

Great idea. Or borrow some CRT plates off another boat that IS licensed 😂

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1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Licence the boat and go for a few days ultimate cruise?

If only, I need to work. That is the reason the boat has not been used for a long time. I bet as soon as it's gone I am booking hire boats!!

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3 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Craftinsure sample policy wording

No mention of it in a GJW policy.

The Craftinsure policy would mean that if in a marina which didn't require a licence you would need to have one which is unenforceable.

 

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Short term licenses where I am are no longer sold for boats that normally kept on private water connected to C&RT water . 3 months is the minimum license period they will allow.

 

I am also in a private marian and usually license the boat 6 months of the year  . I would have bought the odd weeks extra license  outside of those 6 months but C&RT have shot themselves in the foot here . Folks will go out unlicensed  or simply not go out at all rather than pay 3 months license for a day trip. I will not be going out unlicensed.

 

Not sure why the OP is licensing a boat that he will not own at the time of the planned voyage ( if that's not the case I apologize i advance )  . His insurance will be worthless if he no longer has a financial interest in the boat. It should be  the owner at the time of the voyage who  insurers and licenses the boat.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, MartynG said:

His insurance will be worthless if he no longer has a financial interest in the boat. It should be  the owner at the time of the voyage who  insurers and licenses the boat.

 

 

I was always under the impression that you cannot insure anything that you do not have an (financial) 'interest' in.

 

Edit - I was correct :

 

Therefore if you will not suffer financially from the loss of or damage to property (example a car or an item in your home) then you cannot insure that property. To put this another way, you must have an insurable interest in the property you propose to insure.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Just go out for a sail, if by chance a spotter did spot you then you may get a letter


If I have to pay for three months because I’m currently moored on private water then I think that is what I’ll do. 

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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I was always under the impression that you cannot insure anything that you do not have an (financial) 'interest' in.

 

Edit - I was correct :

 

Therefore if you will not suffer financially from the loss of or damage to property (example a car or an item in your home) then you cannot insure that property. To put this another way, you must have an insurable interest in the property you propose to insure.

Oh dear.  That would mean it is not possible to insure for public liabilities as one does not own to the public.  Or third party motor risks as you dont own the other cars.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Oh dear.  That would mean it is not possible to insure for public liabilities as one does not own to the public.  Or third party motor risks as you dont own the other cars.

 

 

In such cases you are insuring yourself for your potential liabilities to the public or a third party.

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5 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Oh dear.  That would mean it is not possible to insure for public liabilities as one does not own to the public.  Or third party motor risks as you dont own the other cars.

 

 

But you would suffer financially if you were found to be liable. 

Insuring against liability is different to ensuring an item or property.

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