What engine oil

[heathergreenwood]

Have just purchased our narrowboat. Has a gardner engine 3L2. 1939 but rebuilt 2004. We have been told this requires SAE30 engine oil but is this with detergent or without detergent. 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, heathergreenwood said:

Have just purchased our narrowboat. Has a gardner engine 3L2. 1939 but rebuilt 2004. We have been told this requires SAE30 engine oil but is this with detergent or without detergent. 

 

If it has an oil filter the by general rule detergent, if it does not have a filter then non-detergent.

[heathergreenwood]

Thanks so much for the info

[malp]

Just to add a thought to TB's advice,  and bearing in mind that I'm more familiar with Russell Newbery than Gardner,  if your engine has an old school cleanable mesh type oil filter element, then non detergent would still be appropiate.   Detergent oil is appropriate with a modern filter that uses replaceable cartridges, at least that's the received wisdom in the RN world.   Whichever you need, look at the Morris range HERE

[Tracy D'arth]

I know of several Lister JP2s and 3s that have no oil filter or oil pump even that have run on detergent loaded oil most of their lives and they are fine.

[heathergreenwood]

Thank you 

[dmr]

55 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I know of several Lister JP2s and 3s that have no oil filter or oil pump even that have run on detergent loaded oil most of their lives and they are fine.

 

Yes, but they might be even better if they had used the correct oil. 😀

To be pedantic I think its the dispersant rather than the detergent that matters, though the two go hand in hand.

The idea is that in an engine without a proper filter all the little particles fall into the sump  to be removed at the oil change. With a proper fiter the particles should remain suspended in the oil to be caught by the filter. So running a detergent/dispersant oil without a fine filter results in the particles continually going round the engine which will increase wear to some extent.

intuitively I find it hard to believe that small particles will settle out rather than getting stirred up by all the oil movement, but then there is often some sludge in a sum po so I suppose its all true.

[BEngo]

Try looking in a Kelvin sump.  They have no oil filter, and no measurable oil pressure  as it is a spit and hope lubrication set up for the crank, the cam is splash lubricated and the top end is wick lubricated.  After about 250 hours , running Morris's low detergent SAE 30, there is noticeable sludge in the sump, to the point that it is sensible to take the doors off for a scrape out.

 

N

[dmr]

56 minutes ago, BEngo said:

Try looking in a Kelvin sump.  They have no oil filter, and no measurable oil pressure  as it is a spit and hope lubrication set up for the crank, the cam is splash lubricated and the top end is wick lubricated.  After about 250 hours , running Morris's low detergent SAE 30, there is noticeable sludge in the sump, to the point that it is sensible to take the doors off for a scrape out.

 

N

 

It would be interesting to try a modern high detergent oil and see how it compares. Maybe if you ever contemplate a complete rebuild you could do this experiment just beforehand, otherwise it would be cruel to experiment on such a lovely engine.

[BEngo]

Having just renewed  the bottom end, after owning the engine since 1985, it will likely be some time before I contemplate another renewal.

 

Keep a close eye on the temperature in Hades. 

 

N

[David Mack]

17 hours ago, malp said:

Whichever you need, look at the Morris range HERE

Morris Golden Film SAE 30 Classic Oil.

Somewhat surprisingly, it is usually cheaper to buy it from a classic car specialist than direct from Morris or from a chandlers.

 

https://www.justkampers.com/ml001-morris-sae30-oil-5litre-for-all-vw-aircooled-engines.html

 

https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ml001-morris-golden-film-engine-oil-sae30-5-litre.html

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by David Mack

[GRLMK38]

I've used just kampers and they offer a good service.

 

You don't mention where you are but here is another option for you .... the Penkridge store is not far from the Staffs & Worcester.

 

https://www.tfmsuperstore.co.uk/products/golden-film-sae30-classic-oil-25-litre-2/

 

 

[BEngo]

4 hours ago, David Mack said:

Morris Golden Film SAE 30 Classic Oil.

Somewhat surprisingly, it is usually cheaper to buy it from a classic car specialist than direct from Morris or from a chandlers.

 

Rule 1:  As the manufacturer, do not undercut or otherwise compete with your customers.  They will  go away rapidly.

 

Rule 2:  Everything costs less if you can find an alternative source to chandlers.

 

Rule 3: A good search engine is nearly always your friend!

 

N

[Stroudwater1]

You could always ask for a delivery from Morris’s directly 🤣

 

🤔

 

Sentinal steam wagon 1931, Welland . Despite being thought to be steam so slow these steam wagons are capable of up to 60mph though more comfortable at 45-50 mph 

[dmr]

3 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

You could always ask for a delivery from Morris’s directly 🤣

 

🤔

 

Sentinal steam wagon 1931, Welland . Despite being thought to be steam so slow these steam wagons are capable of up to 60mph though more comfortable at 45-50 mph 

 

I get mine delivered but sadly it turns up in a bland modern white van, though once a manager did a personal delivery in his car to experience the novelty of delivering directly to a boat. I get my oil in 20litre drums which means some tedious decanting, but the one I use is only available in 20 litres.  Its quite expensive, I expect the free delivery is added to the price.😀

Morris usually have a 10% off deal about twice a year so I try to time my orders to match these, I think they are Christmas and Easter.

[ditchcrawler]

For those that do Facebook here is an interesting bit of video about oil going wrong in an engine. but you have to be on Facebook to see it Watch | Facebook

[Tony Brooks]

18 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

For those that do Facebook here is an interesting bit of video about oil going wrong in an engine. but you have to be on Facebook to see it Watch | Facebook

 

Interesting, we had something similar but not as "thick" on a Perkins 4-107 that had an oil cooler that had been over cooling the oil for years, coupled with in sufficient oil changes. By and large inland Perkins 4-10X engines do not need engine oil coolers. It was an excessive case of emulsification fro combustion gas condensation.

 

It seem to be on a car so it just might be a excessive case of "black sludge" that I think brought about the -4 speification9as in CH-4). Normally it tended to block oil strainers in the sump with a black film, bt way back in the 80s or 90s as I recall.

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

I remember a Citroen diesel van that had what seemed to be hot thick tar in the sump when it had been filled at the last service with  15W40 multi grade.

 

Questioning the driver we learned that he had put in a can of STP thinking it would do wonders and make his van faster than everyone else's'.

 

Why it had this disastrous effect on the oil I don't know.

[Dav and Pen]

We had a forklift with a Polish made Perkins engine that could turn oil to sludge if it went past it’s due change. Problem was there was no hour counter on it. 

[frangar]

On 12/10/2022 at 17:43, Tracy D'arth said:

I know of several Lister JP2s and 3s that have no oil filter or oil pump even that have run on detergent loaded oil most of their lives and they are fine.

Please stop saying JP's have no oil pump!!! 

[BWM]

50 minutes ago, frangar said:

Please stop saying JP's have no oil pump!!! 

I believe they have two on the marine versions, supply to the engine and scavenge to the dry sump.

[frangar]

1 minute ago, BWM said:

I believe they have two on the marine versions, supply to the engine and scavenge to the dry sump.

It’s all in one unit though. 

[BWM]

3 minutes ago, frangar said:

It’s all in one unit though. 

Much like the raw water pump also having bilge pump capability. 

[frangar]

2 minutes ago, BWM said:

Much like the raw water pump also having bilge pump capability. 

Yep. They knew what they were doing. I love my JP2M. 

[Tracy D'arth]

Frangar is on ignore so I can't hear him/her. Good night.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Tracy D'arth