Swans in trouble today

[Leemc]

I know this won’t be a popular view but I will put it out there anyway! 
I’m a veggie who genuinely loved the taste of meat, I just didn’t want to eat it anymore. 
For me there are some very good fake meat products out there. They actually taste meaty. In a sandwich, with sauce of  choice, I think some of them would fool anyone. The Aldi no beef ultimate burgers are a personal favourite.

They are cheaper, better for you( watch out for salt content in some) better for the planet and don’t contain dead stuff that probably have been badly treated. 

Sorry if this sounds a bit preachy but if everyone ate a bit less meat ( especially cheap supermarket crap) where’s the harm.

[Jerra]

8 minutes ago, Leemc said:

I know this won’t be a popular view but I will put it out there anyway! 
I’m a veggie who genuinely loved the taste of meat, I just didn’t want to eat it anymore. 
For me there are some very good fake meat products out there. They actually taste meaty. In a sandwich, with sauce of  choice, I think some of them would fool anyone. The Aldi no beef ultimate burgers are a personal favourite.

They are cheaper, better for you( watch out for salt content in some) better for the planet and don’t contain dead stuff that probably have been badly treated. 

Sorry if this sounds a bit preachy but if everyone ate a bit less meat ( especially cheap supermarket crap) where’s the harm.

Vegetarianism for ethical reasons is in my opinion fine providing you aren't a lactovegetarian.   If you use milk, cheese eggs etc you are just perpetuating the meat and milk and poultry industries.   Animals will die some of them prematurely if we all became lactovegetarians.

 

I also question the "probably have been badly treated" in my experience virtually all people raising animals for food are very concerned about the health and welfare of the animal otherwise they don't get maximum profit.   That isn't to say there aren't exceptions but my experience of the majority.

[David Mack]

If you are a vegetarian for ethical reasons, why would you ever want to eat anything that has been formulated to give the taste, texture and appearance of the very thing you will not eat?

[Leemc]

10 minutes ago, David Mack said:

If you are a vegetarian for ethical reasons, why would you ever want to eat anything that has been formulated to give the taste, texture and appearance of the very thing you will not eat?

Because I like the taste. 

[Leemc]

18 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Vegetarianism for ethical reasons is in my opinion fine providing you aren't a lactovegetarian.   If you use milk, cheese eggs etc you are just perpetuating the meat and milk and poultry industries.   Animals will die some of them prematurely if we all became lactovegetarians.

 

I also question the "probably have been badly treated" in my experience virtually all people raising animals for food are very concerned about the health and welfare of the animal otherwise they don't get maximum profit.   That isn't to say there aren't exceptions but my experience of the majority.

You are right. I’ve cut out milk, but cheese is proving difficult. I’m not perfect!

Cant except the bit about animals not being treated badly though. Meat cannot be cheap, if it is you know it has come from terrible factory style conditions. Genuine local free range cannot be a cheap product. But if I did eat it, that would be the only option for me.

[Tonka]

38 minutes ago, Leemc said:

I know this won’t be a popular view but I will put it out there anyway! 
I’m a veggie who genuinely loved the taste of meat, I just didn’t want to eat it anymore. 
For me there are some very good fake meat products out there. They actually taste meaty. In a sandwich, with sauce of  choice, I think some of them would fool anyone. The Aldi no beef ultimate burgers are a personal favourite.

They are cheaper, better for you( watch out for salt content in some) better for the planet and don’t contain dead stuff that probably have been badly treated. 

Sorry if this sounds a bit preachy but if everyone ate a bit less meat ( especially cheap supermarket crap) where’s the harm.

Not sure you are fully aware of the facts. 

It takes 8 litres of tap water to produce 1 litre of cows milk, but takes 158 lites of tap water to produce 1 litre of Almond milk

[Leemc]

Thanks for that but just switched to black coffee, that’s been relatively easy.

As I said I’m not perfect. I was only saying how some of the fake meat products are actually worth a try. As I said I’m not preaching( trying not to) 

[Tonka]

Nobody seems to worry about how we get Halal meat in this country.

[tree monkey]

2 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Nobody seems to worry about how we get Halal meat in this country.

I do, or I at least am aware of the issue and know it is possible to find stunned Halal, conversely there is none stunned, so on general principle I avoid Halal and if I could I would ban none stunning slaughter 

[tree monkey]

1 hour ago, Leemc said:

I know this won’t be a popular view but I will put it out there anyway! 
I’m a veggie who genuinely loved the taste of meat, I just didn’t want to eat it anymore. 
For me there are some very good fake meat products out there. They actually taste meaty. In a sandwich, with sauce of  choice, I think some of them would fool anyone. The Aldi no beef ultimate burgers are a personal favourite.

They are cheaper, better for you( watch out for salt content in some) better for the planet and don’t contain dead stuff that probably have been badly treated. 

Sorry if this sounds a bit preachy but if everyone ate a bit less meat ( especially cheap supermarket crap) where’s the harm.

Good for you and no I don't think you sound preachy, I have at various times in my live reduced my meat intake for various reasons, the main one was a relationship with a vegan and in many ways didn't miss meat, plus like you I found good quality replacements.

 

Right now though I realise I enjoy it far too much to give up and and far as possible I avoid the cheap stuff and  buy good quality, also where I can I will buy from the farm or like recently direct from the chap who shot and butchered the deer

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

I do, or I at least am aware of the issue and know it is possible to find stunned Halal, conversely there is none stunned, so on general principle I avoid Halal and if I could I would ban none stunning slaughter 

 

Regardless of whether you approve of (legal) religious practices or not, banning them sets a dangerous precedent -- for example, criminalising parents who circumcise their male offspring...

[tree monkey]

Just now, IanD said:

 

Regardless of whether you approve of (legal) religious practices or not, banning them sets a dangerous precedent -- for example, criminalising parents who circumcise their male offspring...

Not much of an issue to me, none stunning Halal (or in fact none stunning kosher slaughter) slaughter is wrong as far as I am concerned, I care not a jot that it's based on some religious teaching, animal welfare the issue here not what god someone follows. 

 

As to circumcision for any reason other than medical my feelings as exactly the same

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Not much of an issue to me, none stunning Halal (or in fact none stunning kosher slaughter) slaughter is wrong as far as I am concerned, I care not a jot that it's based on some religious teaching, animal welfare the issue here not what god someone follows. 

 

As to circumcision for any reason other than medical my feelings as exactly the same

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't approve of either practice. But banning things which are tied to religion has not gone well historically, especially when the laws are passed by governments or bodies which don't have cross-religious representation.

 

As usual this is a complex subject; at one end you have FGM which most civilised people believe is horrendous (and is illegal in many countries), but then you have things like halal slaughter and circumcision which have been established practice for a very long time and are tied to religion, and where banning them could certainly lead to massive protests if not rebellion because it would undoubtedly be seen/promoted as an attack on a particular religion.

 

There are many things that people disapprove of and think should be banned while other people disagree -- halal slaughter, circumcision, smoking, alcohol, drugs, abortion, guns, assisted dying, wearing a hijab, polygamy -- and it's up to society (and governments) to decide which should be permitted and which banned, preferably without ending up with religious wars/crusades or people being killed...

[tree monkey]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't approve of either practice. But banning things which are tied to religion has not gone well historically, especially when the laws are passed by governments or bodies which don't have cross-religious representation.

 

As usual this is a complex subject; at one end you have FGM which most civilised people believe is horrendous (and is illegal in many countries), but then you have things like halal slaughter and circumcision which have been established practice for a very long time and are tied to religion, and where banning them could certainly lead to massive protests if not rebellion because it would undoubtedly be seen/promoted as an attack on a particular religion.

 

There are many things that people disapprove of and think should be banned while other people disagree -- halal slaughter, circumcision, smoking, alcohol, drugs, abortion, guns, assisted dying, wearing a hijab, polygamy -- and it's up to society (and governments) to decide which should be permitted and which banned, preferably without ending up with religious wars/crusades or people being killed...

Which is why I just accept with gritted teeth that, for example none stunning slaughter exists, I don't like it and will not knowingly buy products from it, in the hope the eventually society decides to outlaw the procedures.

 

It's worth nothing though it is often a stick used to beat Muslims but I rarely see mention of Kosher slaughter.

 

 

[peterboat]

On 05/10/2022 at 08:57, Tigerr said:

I am in Cornwall, I have been wondering if the number of dead gulls on the beach is normal. Quite a few smashed up bird skeletons in the waterline.  I thought maybe recent stormy weather had impacted birds out at sea. 

Saved a small shark yesterday though! It was about a metre long, had beached itself in a shallow pool, in obvious trouble. Had swim gloves so was able to grab it and carry it to deeper water, moved it back and forth to oxygenate the gills. It wasn’t grateful and was all for biting my feet before it scarpered! I imagine it’s partial to seabirds too. 

It was a kind act, it doesn't surprise me though as you come across as that kind of person 

[peterboat]

No chickens for us again this year, I have been following avian flu with gradually mounting horror, its  disaster for nature which I hope has nothing to do with humanity 

[Tonka]

8 minutes ago, peterboat said:

No chickens for us again this year, I have been following avian flu with gradually mounting horror, its  disaster for nature which I hope has nothing to do with humanity 

Another export from China, like Covid

[Bacchus]

A lot of dead swans around today - I have seen a couple just floating down the river (one neighbour reports seeing five!) and one in the car-park for the slipway that I mentioned up-thread, which has now been gated shut and the public asked not to enter. A local character who walks around with a cockatiel on his shoulder has been advised to keep it at home for the time-being, and dog owners are being warned to keep their dogs away from the swans

 

better get your frozen turkey-burgers in for Christmas dinner, even if the turkey farms aren't affected the prices will inevitably rocket!

[Alan de Enfield]

On 05/10/2022 at 20:53, Ronaldo47 said:

I only found out about the reduced meat content years later, but they always tasted good.  Perhaps it was the Sodium Monophosphate! 

 

But they have to put breadscumbs in the middle to be able to make "both ends meet"

[peterboat]

21 minutes ago, Bacchus said:

A lot of dead swans around today - I have seen a couple just floating down the river (one neighbour reports seeing five!) and one in the car-park for the slipway that I mentioned up-thread, which has now been gated shut and the public asked not to enter. A local character who walks around with a cockatiel on his shoulder has been advised to keep it at home for the time-being, and dog owners are being warned to keep their dogs away from the swans

 

better get your frozen turkey-burgers in for Christmas dinner, even if the turkey farms aren't affected the prices will inevitably rocket!

Not seen any dead swans yet but no doubt it will come, this is just more bad news for nature. 

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Not seen any dead swans yet but no doubt it will come, this is just more bad news for nature. 

This one was at Watford locks 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Bacchus said:

A lot of dead swans around today - I have seen a couple just floating down the river (one neighbour reports seeing five!) and one in the car-park for the slipway that I mentioned up-thread, which has now been gated shut and the public asked not to enter. A local character who walks around with a cockatiel on his shoulder has been advised to keep it at home for the time-being, and dog owners are being warned to keep their dogs away from the swans

 

better get your frozen turkey-burgers in for Christmas dinner, even if the turkey farms aren't affected the prices will inevitably rocket!

Where was this? I saw plenty on the Paddington Arm today, all healthy 🙂

[LadyG]

On 10/10/2022 at 11:39, Jerra said:

Vegetarianism for ethical reasons is in my opinion fine providing you aren't a lactovegetarian.   If you use milk, cheese eggs etc you are just perpetuating the meat and milk and poultry industries.   Animals will die some of them prematurely if we all became lactovegetarians.

 

I also question the "probably have been badly treated" in my experience virtually all people raising animals for food are very concerned about the health and welfare of the animal otherwise they don't get maximum profit.   That isn't to say there aren't exceptions but my experience of the majority.

I never buy bacon that is not from UK, nor anything Chinese, prefer free range or organic chicken, even if all poultry is kept indoors  at the moment. It's just a few pence more, but it's a welfare issue. Buying cheapest food is necessarily lowest common denominator 

Edited November 11, 2022 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

On Exmoor last weekend and on a road in a private estate a number of pheasants must have been infected. They were on the track with fluffed up feathers and did not move, even when a wheel passed within less than an inch of them. A very sad sight.

[peterboat]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

On Exmoor last weekend and on a road in a private estate a number of pheasants must have been infected. They were on the track with fluffed up feathers and did not move, even when a wheel passed within less than an inch of them. A very sad sight.

The chance of survival is very slim for them this is a nasty virus