Barrus Shire ignition switch

[Mike H]

Comment on Eeyore and Tony Brookes post :

 

The wiring diagram came with the boat and this is the first time I have had to use it.  I can see some of the wiring diagram seems to have errors.

The Barrus diagram was in the boat manual

 

Another point is I am the fourth owner of the boat and the wiring diagram would have been done when new so alterations may have been done over the years.

 

I agree the wiring needs tracing and checking to see what corresponds to the wiring diagram.  I will do this.

 

I agree the wiring is complicated  with a Sterling alternator controller and both a Smartbank and Smartguage.  I don't see the need for both.

 

On a more general note thanks to everyone who is providing imput to solve this 

[Tony Brooks]

14 minutes ago, Mike H said:

I agree the wiring is complicated  with a Sterling alternator controller and both a Smartbank and Smartguage.  I don't see the need for both.

 

 

It looks to me that it was a quality fit out of it's time. The Smartguage is really just a battery monitor, be it one that accurately displays the % charged once it has been discharging for a short while (assuming correct calibration when made). The Smartbank is really just a more complicated split charge relay that has a mode of operation that could be questioned, but that won't affect any over voltage problem.

 

The Sterling Controller simply boosts the alternator voltage at certain times to (supposedly) give a faster battery recharge. This may well cause overcharging, BUT ONLY FROM THE ALTERNATOR, if it loses it's sensing connection. Such devices are still fitted today.

 

The Link 10 monitor is likely to inaccurately duplicate the Smartguage readout on % charged, but will be accurate for amps and volts

 

Each has a job to do but it does tend to complicate things unless you can look at them and their wiring in isolation.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[Tony Brooks]

Just had a thought. Both the mains battery charger and the solar controller may well do an equalisation charge at times they think they want to, so is it possible that this overcharging was just that. one or the other doing an equalisation charge. However, either should revert to a normal voltage after a fixed time of perhaps an hour or so. look in the manual to see how long they hold an equalisation voltage for.

[Mike H]

Back home at the moment so no manuals at hand but shore charging is via Sterling 1220 charger and solar by Victron MPPT 75/15 controller.

 

Will be back with details tomorrow evening

[Tony Brooks]

24 minutes ago, Mike H said:

Back home at the moment so no manuals at hand but shore charging is via Sterling 1220 charger and solar by Victron MPPT 75/15 controller.

 

Will be back with details tomorrow evening

 

Just check to see if either will do an equalisation charge and how long it goes on for. Then you know if it is a possibility and after waiting to see if it drops back to see it that is what is going on.

 

I would also see if either the solar controller or the mains charger can be set to different voltage profiles for different battery types, Just in case they have been set for something weird.

 

The Pro Charge 1220 does not seem to do an equalisation charge, but can be set to charge at 14.8 volts for wet open cell batteries. If yours are sealed or you have been looking for a sealed battery charging voltage, then this would be too high.

 

The Victron manual says it can do an equalisation charge but that has to be manually selected, but later on it says it can be set to automatically do it at intervals ranging from every one day to 250 days. I don't know how yours has been set. However, we have had cases where a boater has disconnected the battery without disconnecting the panels. This causes most controllers to set themselves to 24 volts when the batteries are reconnected. Then you get high charging voltages into 12V batteries. If the solar has been wired to the load side of the isolator, just turning the isolator off and on could cause this. Always connect the batteries to the controller before the panels, unless the instructions specifically say differently.

 

Again, it seems the voltage profiles can be set for different battery types

Edited May 8, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[Mike H]

22 hours ago, Mike H said:

Back home at the moment so no manuals at hand but shore charging is via Sterling 1220 charger and solar by Victron MPPT 75/15 controller.

 

Will be back with details tomorrow evening

 

Mission not sucessful today. It was pouring down when at boat which is a wide hatch trad and I am reluctant to expose elecs to rain when removing elec access pabels

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Mike H said:

 

Mission not sucessful today. It was pouring down when at boat which is a wide hatch trad and I am reluctant to expose elecs to rain when removing elec access pabels

 

Don't blame you, especially as you would be wet through as well as the electrics.

[Eeyore]

Terminal 83 is a bit of a red herring, turning out to be a normally closed contact which is open in the on and start positions of the key switch. It has been like this since @Mike H took ownership, and its easy to see why it could be taken as a dodgy switch; which it might also be given the odd things happening when the key was waggled around.

So as wired (see photo) the off position gave warning lamps and buzzer, the on position gave tacho/hour meter and sterling alt controller; but not consistently due to the waggle effect. Starting was unaffected as this engine has an energise to stop solenoid, and "normal" running was undertaken with the key switch in the off position so that the alternator would charge. The key would then be turned to the on position to give power to the stop button (same feed as tacho), and left in this "quiet" position whilst the engine was shut down.

The new Barrus switch of course exhibited the same symptoms, whilst the Durite switch lacked terminal 83 that was believed to be necessary. 

A small clue was missed early on when Mike queried the piggy back terminal on the red wire, which had clearly had something attached in the past. Four wires requiring a switched feed, two with piggy back connections - hmm I wonder.

The Durite switch has been installed because Mike had already crimped a new fitting on the main feed wire for the larger spade on terminal 30 (not enough wire to change it back); and I have to agree, it just felt much smoother in operation.

The four wires in their piggy backed pairs now reside on terminals 15 and 15a, and all appears well.

At this point we adopted that proven working method of quitting whilst ahead, the coffee and good biscuits making an appearance shortly afterwards.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Eeyore

[Tony Brooks]

@Eeyore does this mean that you visited to sort him out? if so, thanks and well done.

 

However, that still does not explain how/why he got excess voltage from the solar and charger with the Durite switch.

 

I still don't understand why Barrus wired it as described (assuming they did). I suspect a previous owner.

[Eeyore]

20 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

@Eeyore does this mean that you visited to sort him out? if so, thanks and well done.

 

However, that still does not explain how/why he got excess voltage from the solar and charger with the Durite switch.

 

I still don't understand why Barrus wired it as described (assuming they did). I suspect a previous owner.

The mains charger has been off for most of the week, and the solar seems to be in "sulk" mode at the moment; so plenty on Mikes "to do" list at the moment. The alternator voltage was climbing steadily when running, even though the Sterling alternator controller didn't seem to be working - some but not all the expected lights showing.

I would say that several people have been in there over the years, probably looks worse than it is because some of the cable ties will have been removed for access.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Eeyore

[Mike H]

20 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

@Eeyore does this mean that you visited to sort him out? if so, thanks and well done.

 

 

A big thanks from me as well.  Turned out we are in opposite ends of the same marina, small world.

 

I'm glad eeyore explained the problem so eloquently as it had me stumped.

 

As eeyore said plenty still to do but that is always the case, a bottomless bucket as the owner of my first boat said, nothing could be truer.