Barrus Shire ignition switch

[reg]

12 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

Didn’t see your post on the thread. Wish I had.

It was a long time ago.

I have a more complete list somewhere hopefully I can find it.

Coincidently the reason I made the list is because due to an ignition switch problem I.e an internal short causing a starter motor run on which eventually 'exploded ' and took out all electrical equipment, relays,starter,solenoids, alternator?  Basically everything apart from the wiring. Starter motor had about 1 /3rd of its coils disappear which then seemed to flash the entire system.

The ignition switch used is a standard durite ignition switch which is not waterproofed. When I took it apart I found that the copper erosion had spread across the terminals making a permanently on connection. 

 

Top tip as soon as you start to get any ignition problems on a Barrus change the switch it will save you hundreds, possibly thousands

[Nightwatch]

The control panel on Nightwatch is inside the cabin and is protected from the immediate elements.

[reg]

12 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

The control panel on Nightwatch is inside the cabin and is protected from the immediate elements.

If you still have the old one it might be worth taking it to bits just to see just how close the terminals are

[reg]

On 28/10/2022 at 07:57, Nightwatch said:

The control panel on Nightwatch is inside the cabin and is protected from the immediate elements.

Revisiting this as i remember you saying this, just been looking at the updated Barrus manual and find they now say that the control panel is not waterproof and should be kept under cover. In my older manual there was no mention of this

[Mike H]

On 22/10/2022 at 15:55, Nightwatch said:

This is the one I bought and fitted. 

Can I please clarify with you Nightwatch, where did you get this switch from and if possible has it a serial number?  I have a barrus shire 1552 with this switch which I need to replace

[Nightwatch]

8 minutes ago, Mike H said:

Can I please clarify with you Nightwatch, where did you get this switch from and if possible has it a serial number?  I have a barrus shire 1552 with this switch which I need to replace

I actually bought it from a Barrus dealer near to Leeds. We were in Skipton at the time. Convenience as I could pick it up. Not cheap but it did the job. There’s a number on the keys. I didn’t check if there’s a number on the barrel.

 

Im sure any Barrus agent can supply. If you have a postal address get it posted, which we didn’t have at the time.

 

Hope this helps.

[Mike H]

Thanks Nightwatch. Been to RCR and they didn't have one in stock so have ordered one at my nearest Barrus Shire agent, JD Boat Services at Gailey.  They had one in stock but sold it a couple of weeks ago.  You just know that would happen 🤔

[Nightwatch]

I was going to suggest Barrus at Bicester, their main headquarters, but if I remember correctly they don’t sell to Joe Public.

 

Rodley Boat services is where I got ours. Where are you? Gailey installed our engine in 2002 before we bought Nightwatch.

[reg]

2 hours ago, Mike H said:

Thanks Nightwatch. Been to RCR and they didn't have one in stock so have ordered one at my nearest Barrus Shire agent, JD Boat Services at Gailey.  They had one in stock but sold it a couple of weeks ago.  You just know that would happen 🤔

This is a standard ignition switch that is much cheaper when not purchased from Barrus. My post in this thread from 27th Oct 2022 gives non  Barrus part numbers for Starter motor and Ignition switch. 

 

IGNITION SWITCH:
    Durite ignition switch 4 position BG1-0-351-05

    Greensparkplug company
Look at my prev post for suppliers.

N.b obviously need to double check it goes with your engine

EDIT TO ADD MULTIPLE SUPPLIERS ON EBAY WITH CLICK AND COLLECT. CHEAPEST £29.99

Edited May 4, 2023 by reg
Speel checker insists you purchase from Barry

[Nightwatch]

If the following is searched you will find them. An excellent price. About half a year too late. 0-351-05 4 P

[reg]

14 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

If the following is searched you will find them. An excellent price. About half a year too late. 0-351-05 4 P

Sorry meant to mail Mike H not you.

Dementia having another practice run.

Hopefully he will see it in the thread

Edited May 4, 2023 by reg

[Nightwatch]

I looked and I saw. So, maybe Mike will also. Worth knowing.

[reg]

On 04/05/2023 at 16:07, reg said:

IGNITION SWITCH:
    Durite ignition switch 4 position BG1-0-351-05

IMPORTANT UPDATE

Informed by Mike H that the above ignition switch is not suitable for his engine. Appears to be no alternative than to purchase from BARRUS.

So important to double check part number If Durite is to be used. Otherwise can't go wrong if bought through BARRUS dealer using their official ignition switch.

 

[David Mack]

What is so special about the Barrus engine that a generic ignition key switch is not suitable?

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

What is so special about the Barrus engine that a generic ignition key switch is not suitable?

 

That is what I have been wondering. The only things that it might be is either physical space to fit a generic switch that often looks larger in the body or an electric stop that needs power to stop. However, in the latter case, generic switches are available. I did Google and noticed that the number given has an instrument feed as well as a run position but that is simple enough to solve. Many generics have twin terminals for run.

[Mike H]

Sorry was off thread when speaking direct to reg. I will include my message to him here in the hope someone more electrically minded might understand the problem:

 

"Thanks reg just to explain my problem I was trying to replace a very faulty Barrus Shire 5 terminal ignition switch on my 2000 narrowboat which has a Barrus Shire 1552 engine. I tried a replacement Durite ignition switch (0-351-03 acc/off/run/start) which caused massive overcharging to my batteries (which were at the time on shore power and solar) they went to 16.8v.  The switch was connected correctly.

 

The problem seemed to be the Sterling Split Charger relay was not getting the correct signal from the Durite switch as the red overcharge light was lit up. I found this out the morning after fitting the switch when I found my co2 alarm in the cabin alarming from the battery fumes. I immediately disconnected my batteries to prevent fire/ explosion when I saw the voltage they were at.

 

Then I  sourced a new 5 terminal Barrus Shire ignition from JD Boat Services at Gailey. On chatting with the boss there his opinion was that there is no cheap replacement for an old 5 terminal Barrus switch as the connections inside a Durite switch are different. I tend to agree with him as the standard terminal connection numbers are different on the Barrus switch when compared to the Durite equivalent.

 

So please if you do need to replace a faulty 5 terminal Barrus Shire ignition bite the bullet and pay the price, there is no cheap alternative available. Interestingly all keys are the same for the five terminal switches

 

Obviously all boats will have slightly different wiring layouts but my basic components are Stirling Charger, Stirling Split charge controller, single alternator, 2000w pure sine invertor, 200w solar with Victron Smart solar controller, 3 house batteries (new last year) and 1 starter battery.

 

Out of interest initially it appeared the Durite switch was doing the job as the engine started fine and stopped on the button and the warning lights and rev counter were working.

 

Newer Barrus Shire switches are, I believe, a 9 pin. I have no information if there are any  alternative cheaper switches for these"

 

As a follow up to my problem the "new" Barrus Shire switch is faulty and I am now waiting for a replacement.

 

Below are some pics of the Barrus switch

Edited May 6, 2023 by Mike H
Picture added

[Alan de Enfield]

My thoughts would be :

Your Barrus orignal switch failed.

You replaced it with a 'cheap pattern' switch which failed.

You then replaced that with a Barrus switch that has now failed.

You are now going to fit another Barrus switch.

 

Do you not think there may be an underlying problem that is causing the switches to fail, rather than the problem being the switches themselves ?

Edited May 6, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

34 minutes ago, Mike H said:

 

The problem seemed to be the Sterling Split Charger relay was not getting the correct signal from the Durite switch as the red overcharge light was lit up. I found this out the morning after fitting the switch when I found my co2 alarm in the cabin alarming from the battery fumes. I immediately disconnected my batteries to prevent fire/ explosion when I saw the voltage they were at.

That suggests a wiring problem rather than something wrong with the ignition switch. The Sterling split charger relay will be designed to work with engines which do use a bog standard ignition switch, so there's no reason why the same shouldn't be done on the Barrus Shire.

[Mike H]

Sorry I dont think thats it Alan/David.  The problem with the original Barrus Switch  was mechanical. You can feel the internals moving around when turning the key.  You had to keep pressure on the key when turning to get anything to work.

 

I replaced it with a Durite switch. This did not fail but caused overcharging as the terminal numbering was not the same as the BS switch. (Did not have a terminal No 83 which the BS switch has)

 

I replaced this with a new BS switch which was 'allegedly ok' but this was a return item and not brand new from BS. I am waiting for a replacement.

 

I have re-fitted my original BS switch which has solved the overcharge problem and will operate the engine, rev counter, warning lights and stop button so this negates any external wiring fault.  But feels totally unreliable which is why I was replacing it !!

Edited May 6, 2023 by Mike H
Add terminal number

[Eeyore]

1 hour ago, Mike H said:

 

Pictures of the original and supposed equivalents side by side might be useful.

 

 

[Mike H]

34 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

Pictures of the original and supposed equivalents side by side might be useful.

 

 

The picture is of the original Barrus Shire switch. The one that didn't work and was causing overcharge (even with ignition off) was a Durite 03-51-03

[Eeyore]

1 minute ago, Mike H said:

The picture is of the original Barrus Shire switch. The one that didn't work and was causing overcharge (even with ignition off) was a Durite 03-51-03

Thanks, but I was wanting to see the terminal numbers side by side.

 

[Mike H]

Ok this is the best I can do. Left side is Durite right is Barrus. The extra terminal on the Durite is Accessory and I did not use (key turn to left)

 

[Eeyore]

51 minutes ago, Mike H said:

The picture is of the original Barrus Shire switch. The one that didn't work and was causing overcharge (even with ignition off) was a Durite 03-51-03

Time to reverse engineer this? No obvious reason, as yet, not to use a standard switch.

Can we have the terminal number/colour/function(destination) for the wires as connected to the Barrus switch.

A picture of the alternator terminals and the Sterling split charge gizmo terminals would be handy.

Here is the contact diagram for the Durite switch showing internal connections for each key position.

You should, with a test lamp or multimeter be able to draw the equivalent for the BS switch, just clip one test lead to "30" and work through the key positions, checking to all of the other terminals in each key position.

Edited May 6, 2023 by Eeyore

[Mike H]

Ok eeyore. I am not on the boat today where I have a really good wiring diagram. I will be there tomorrow when I will photo what I can and go through terminals with multimeter.  Thanks for your help

Edited May 6, 2023 by Mike H
Multimeter added