National standard for boaters' facilities

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Fazeley Mill do it now but its the only one I know of

keep up Captain, we’ve been going on about that for a bit now 😃

[ditchcrawler]

14 minutes ago, Goliath said:

keep up Captain, we’ve been going on about that for a bit now 😃

Why, no one else does.👿

[GUMPY]

34 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Fazeley Mill do it now but its the only one I know of

I can think of a few on the Great Ouse that do

 

[Stroudwater1]

On 30/09/2022 at 16:24, Arthur Marshall said:

The elsan point at the chandlery at Barbridge junction used to be available to anyone. For a while it was a quid to use and now it's padlocked for use only by their moorers. There's a notice saying it's £2 to others, but as the chandlery is shut and there's no one to ask I suspect it's just an old sign.

It'll also be interesting to see any changes to waste collection now Biffa has been sold to, I believe, a US hedge company.

The Elsan at Venetian marina I believe is free to use so not much further if you are going that way of course 

[Tony1]

On 30/09/2022 at 10:43, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Could be used as an excuse to close facilities, as they don't meet, or can't be upgraded to meet the national standard.

 

To me, this latest wizard wheeze of CRT smacks of being an idea that started as a stick-it note scribbled in a management meeting, and has been allowed to develop into a real world project. Or perhaps, a solution looking for a problem. 

 

The key stipulation that it must be done within the existing budget suggests very strongly that there will be some facilities closures. Its difficult to see how any facilities can be improved to some 'minimum standard' without spending money. Unless some savings can be made by outsourcing facilities to marinas, as suggested above.

But can you imagine all of the boat traffic around a busy facilities point in summer, suddenly being moved inside a nearby marina? The marina moorers probably wont be over the moon at the constant coming and going on top of their own existing traffic. 

 

Added to that, there are some posts here giving examples of marina facilities that apparently should be open to all CRT boaters, but have been restricted to moorers only, during the years following whatever agreement was initially made. And bear in mind that if a marina office is needed to gain access to say an elsan, the offices could well be closed at 5pm most days. So early evening facilities stops at those places will no longer be possible for passing boaters. And if a situation arises where priority has to be given between moorers and passing boaters, the marina will always give priority to their moorers. 

 

But even the consultancy period where they seek professional guidance to help them decide what the minimum standard actually is, will require a fair bit of person-hours, from people who get paid a lot of money per hour. And all of that will come from the existing facilities budget. 

 

In areas where you have two facilities points within a few miles, such as Calveley and Nantwich (and with no major lock flight in between)  I feel it is almost inevitable that one of them will close. 

The thing is that this might not take account of how busy these places are, so you can imagine in summer the remaining facilities will be twice as busy as usual, and that's not going to be much fun. With boats spending up to an hour (and some more) filling water tanks, there are only so many boats that can use a given facilities point in one day, so I hope they take traffic levels and capacity into account. 

 

Since the minimum distance between the remaining points will supposedly allow for actual cruising time, in theory people should not be forced to use lock flights to get to facilities, but I think its likely people will sometimes find themselves going through flights to reach a facilities point, and then returning back through the same flight to their preferred mooring. So some lock flights might get busier. 

 

Its also possible that setting a minimum cruising range between facilities might throw up a theoretical need for new facilities to be installed, although the expense involved will mean that in those cases, CRT will of course be 'pragmatic', and will not build the required new facilities. 

They will reason that if the local facilities situation is 'not broken', so to speak (ie very few complaints), then they do not need to build new facilities. 

But conversely, when their assessment supports the closure of a given point, they will be only too willing to act on that, even if the boater feedback suggests that the local situation not 'broken'. 

 

My hope personally is that the feedback from boaters will be that taken as a whole, the facilities provision is not 'broken' (or not badly, anyway).

This new project almost inevitably means facilities closures, and my bet is if that outcome is made clear, most boaters would opt for things to be left as they are.  

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by Tony1

[pearley]

On 30/09/2022 at 16:21, DaveP said:

When CRT sold off BWML to Aquavista, several did.  The one that was closest to me at te time was Packet Boat at Cowley Peachey Junction. Limehouse Basin has also restricted non-moorers from  their facilities in recent years using covid as an excuse, but not lifting the restrictions to date....

 

On 30/09/2022 at 16:24, cuthound said:

Again, unless CRT paid the new owners of the ex BWML marina's for everyone to use the facities, it is only to be expected that they would restrict facilities to there own customers or charge handsomely for them.

Except that the funds to build these marinas originally came from BW funds and in some cases nearby facilities were closed in favour of those in the marina.

 

Anyway, was it so difficult to write a contract of sale to ensure that facilities remain available to all? And that includes those lock houses sold off resulting in water taps being removed.

[gatekrash]

The results of this have now been published. Took a bit of finding...

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/boating-news-and-views/boating-blogs-and-features/customer-services-facilities-policy

[MtB]

On 29/09/2022 at 15:36, Ray T said:

Matthew Symonds, head of customer service at Canal & River Trust, said: “We know how important it is for boaters to be able to access water and waste facilities when they are cruising.

 

He is overlooking all the local residents, motor-homers, builders, van-lifers, gardeners and all the others who have sussed out that CRT water, Elsan and rubbish disposal facilities up and down the system can be accessed with a CRT key bought on ebay.

 

 

[MrsM]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

 

He is overlooking all the local residents, motor-homers, builders, van-lifers, gardeners and all the others who have sussed out that CRT water, Elsan and rubbish disposal facilities up and down the system can be accessed with a CRT key bought on ebay.

 

 

This is so true. I've phoned CRT in the past with details of white vans I've watched pull up and dump sacks of rubbish in CRT bins. Just a few weeks ago OH saw this happen at the end of the Caldon too.

[Rob-M]

16 minutes ago, MrsM said:

This is so true. I've phoned CRT in the past with details of white vans I've watched pull up and dump sacks of rubbish in CRT bins. Just a few weeks ago OH saw this happen at the end of the Caldon too.

At least they were putting it in the bins and not just slinging it in the cut.

[Francis Herne]

On 15/06/2023 at 13:18, MrsM said:

This is so true. I've phoned CRT in the past with details of white vans I've watched pull up and dump sacks of rubbish in CRT bins. Just a few weeks ago OH saw this happen at the end of the Caldon too.

I've known some boaters, both on unserviced moorings and CMers, to drive their rubbish and cassettes to the nearest services rather than take the boat.  It's a lot quicker if you get home late.

 

So not all vehicles are abusing the facilities, only many of them...

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Francis Herne said:

I've known some boaters, both on unserviced moorings and CMers, to drive their rubbish and cassettes to the nearest services rather than take the boat.  It's a lot quicker if you get home late.

 

So not all vehicles are abusing the facilities, only many of them...

 

This is true. I often take the bin liner out of the bin and put it in the van, then stop and dump it in the CRT bins I pass on the way home. 

 

My van is silver though, not white. 

[LadyG]

On 23/06/2023 at 13:59, MtB said:

 

This is true. I often take the bin liner out of the bin and put it in the van, then stop and dump it in the CRT bins I pass on the way home. 

 

My van is silver though, not white. 

Why don't you just take it home, then you don't need to bother stopping en route.

I did once challenge a sextet of cyclists using the CRT toilets, aparently one was a boater!

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Why don't you just take it home, then you don't need to bother stopping en route.

 

Have you ever driven 80 miles home with a stinking bag of rubbish in the van??!!!!

 

 

[oboat]

On 30/09/2022 at 13:21, MoominPapa said:

My suggestion for rubbish facilities was hoppers, located on the offside and only accessible by boat. Something similar works in Northwich, where the bins are in a pontoon next to the CRT yard. To do the same thing where the location is not accessible for emptying, you'd need to arrange to remove the rubbish by water, probably by replacing a full hopper with an empty one and taking the full one to somewhere where it could be discharged.

 

MP

This system could work in London from Today.
The Paddington arm has a regular rubbish barge removal system at least once a week from Camden to the Powerday site. 
It is so obvious, the small local bins just get overloaded all the time. But it would need coordination with the LA's.
Just take a look at the feedback on the CART Facebook add for a vital volunteer mooring officer!

 

The Italians have a brilliant hopper system (on road) the hopper is sunk in the ground by about 12ft (deeper than graphic) with just about 3ft above ground. They have a self seal access hatch in the top and are vermin proof. (Oxford take note).
A truck (or boat) pulls up takes out the full one and puts in a new empty.
Takes about 10min max.
As they are so deep they only need to be replaced once a week unless in an event area.
The London barge could be fitted with a Jib easily.