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National standard for boaters' facilities


Ray T

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CRT PressRelease

 

29th September 2022 

NATIONAL STANDARD FOR BOATERS’ facilities

 

The Canal & River Trust has started the process of setting a national standard for the water points, refuse sites and other boater facilities that it provides across the waterways network.

 

The Trust provides over 600 water points, 264 Elsan points, and 250 refuse and recycling sites free at the point of use. There are also 77 pump-out machines and, in some areas, toilets and showers. However, there is no statutory requirement or set of standards about where or what facilities the Trust will provide.

 

The Trust is starting a consultation for boat licence holders, to agree a minimum standard of customer service facilities that, within existing resources, will best meet the needs of those living on and navigating the network.

 

The consultation has been developed with boaters from the Trust’s Navigation Advisory Group and elected boater representatives and builds on the findings of the Inland Waterway Association survey and recommendations on customer service facilities.

 

The Trust spends almost £4 million every year on maintaining the facilities and managing waste.  Many older facilities require investment, whilst the cost of providing and maintaining the Trust’s facilities is also increasing, with soaring inflation and, in too many cases, the need to repair vandalism to customer service buildings housing the facilities.

 

The Trust will be asking boaters about what facilities they consider essential: what facilities should and should not be provided by the Trust; what the minimum cruising distance between facilities should ideally be; and what local factors should be taken into consideration where there is higher or lower demand.  The process will also set a standard for the quality and availability of facilities.

 

Matthew Symonds, head of customer service at Canal & River Trust, said: “We know how important it is for boaters to be able to access water and waste facilities when they are cruising. In reality, many of the boater facilities that we provide have been installed over time without an over-arching national standard, which can make it hard for boaters to know how far they might have to travel and what they might find. 

 

“Set against the context of growing customer expectations and rising costs in providing and maintaining the facilities, we recognise that there is need to change and improve how we provide them. We want to ensure we provide facilities that boaters need, delivered to a consistent standard across our network, and that the facilities are better in terms of resilience and reliability, with fewer breakdowns and incidents of vandalism.

 

“The intention is to use our resources more effectively to deliver the best possible service for boaters. I would encourage all boaters to share their views on how we can achieve this together.”

 

Phase one of the consultation will take place until 21 November 2022. Boaters are invited to participate by completing the online consultation survey.

 

A second phase, which will look at existing facilities against the new minimum standard, will take place in 2023.

 

This consultation is not about any specific customer service facilities, but a national standard that will then inform decisions about local facilities. There is no intention to remove stand-alone water points.

 

Ends

 

For further media requests please contact:

Jonathan Ludford, Canal & River Trust

m 07747 897783 e jonathan.ludford@canalrivertrust.org.uk

 

 

 

 

 


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Where did I read there was only 65 maintained by CRT, thought it was 65 elsans, thought it was difficult to believe.

Standardising is likely to be bad news, emptying bins or sewerage tanks every two weeks rather than when required is likely to have bad outcome.

It would be nice if all elsans had a rinse facility, sometimes they do, sometimes not.

As for standardising water taps, does that mean getting rid of those which require use of pliars or plastic fittings?

It might be helpful to know if one needs to separate rubbish, but Biffa seem to separate at their premises, sending out one lorry,  even though  one bin says no glass, the other says all rubbish.

Edited by LadyG
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An elsan, a bin, and a water point. All working. That would be a good place to start for a "standard". Seems to cover most users. Pump out would be a bonus, but with more mechanics comes more chance of failure.

 

One thing we've noticed since we've become cassette users is that there are some dirty "illegitimate children" out there. Once at Hawkesbury and once at the top of Hatton, it took longer to clean the elsan before we could use it than it did to empty our cassette :( 

Can't blame CRT for that, but you can see what they're up against to keep them working when folk treat them that way.

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Didn't they have a plan to standardise water points some time ago, removing the cast iron ones and replacing them with lockable stainless steel things. I think the locks at £80 a piece probably lasted the best part of a week before they both went and CRT gave up on replacing the cast iron stands

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14 minutes ago, Loddon said:

National standard for signs so you know what's where

 

I usually know where I am because the signs with names are helpful, not so 'what three words" or 'national grid reference', but no need to change the signs, just cover those bits of useless info, or wait till the next re-branding and some decision has been made.

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3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I usually know where I am because the signs with names are helpful, not so 'what three words" or 'national grid reference', but no need to change the signs, just cover those bits of useless info, or wait till the next re-branding and some decision has been made.

So what information would you give to the emergency services to locate someone in trouble, both what 3 words  or a grid reference will get them there

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33 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

So what information would you give to the emergency services to locate someone in trouble, both what 3 words  or a grid reference will get them there

Just what I'd do at any time, explain I was at place named on the sign, we are in the realms of fantasy. How likely is it that an emergency is going to happen at a sign?  Less likely than on a road, and then I'd not even have a sign to help.

I did once have to call emergency services and had to ask a passer by to explain my location. It was at the gates of a hospital, by chance and she was a nurse, how likely is that?

Not everyone  carries either an OS map or a smart phone or have the ability to give that information.

Edited by LadyG
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28 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Just what I'd do at any time, explain I was at place named on the sign, we are in the realms of fantasy. How likely is it that an emergency is going to happen at a sign?  Less likely than on a road, and then I'd not even have a sign to help.

I did once have to call emergency services and had to ask a passer by to explain my location. It was at the gates of a hospital, by chance and she was a nurse, how likely is that?

Not everyone  carries either an OS map or a smart phone or have the ability to give that information.

I wrongly assumed you meant a sign somewhere near a lock, reservoir or other structure. If the information is on the notice you don't need a smart phone or OS map, but the emergency

services you call will have access to both.

 

Why didn't you tell the emergency services you were at the gates of the hospital ? 

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2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I wrongly assumed you meant a sign somewhere near a lock, reservoir or other structure. If the information is on the notice you don't need a smart phone or OS map, but the emergency

services you call will have access to both.

 

Why didn't you tell the emergency services you were at the gates of the hospital ? 

Because I did not know, it was dark, late at night and a drunk had fallen over beside the verge,  the gates were not those gates used for public access, there was no sign. It was a sort of country road. I was checking if he was dead or just broken , and would have stopped a car to ask for assistance when the nurse came along.

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1 hour ago, Hudds Lad said:

An elsan, a bin, and a water point. All working. That would be a good place to start for a "standard". Seems to cover most users. Pump out would be a bonus, but with more mechanics comes more chance of failure.

 

One thing we've noticed since we've become cassette users is that there are some dirty "illegitimate children" out there. Once at Hawkesbury and once at the top of Hatton, it took longer to clean the elsan before we could use it than it did to empty our cassette :( 

Can't blame CRT for that, but you can see what they're up against to keep them working when folk treat them that way.

I think I have had to use a bucket from time to time, not often, but if swillng out is required there should be a concrete floor draining to an external trapped drain and ventilation is required (this takes me back about forty years!)..

 

Edited by LadyG
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The outdoor elsan, aka The Throne, is fine. No need for a flush tank, just a rinse pipe.  Cold hand wash from the rinse pipe is fine too.

The cast pillar type of water point can be made to comply with the water regs, and again is robust.

 

Rubbish points need a proper metal fence, a self closing door with a robust fixed lock and proper CCTV.  Then the legal department can do something useful prosecuting fly-tippers.

 

N

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4 hours ago, Ray T said:

CRT PressRelease

 

29th September 2022 

NATIONAL STANDARD FOR BOATERS’ facilities

 

The Canal & River Trust has started the process of setting a national standard for the water points, refuse sites and other boater facilities that it provides across the waterways network.

 

The Trust provides over 600 water points, 264 Elsan points, and 250 refuse and recycling sites free at the point of use. There are also 77 pump-out machines and, in some areas, toilets and showers. However, there is no statutory requirement or set of standards about where or what facilities the Trust will provide.

 

The Trust is starting a consultation for boat licence holders, to agree a minimum standard of customer service facilities that, within existing resources, will best meet the needs of those living on and navigating the network.

 

The consultation has been developed with boaters from the Trust’s Navigation Advisory Group and elected boater representatives and builds on the findings of the Inland Waterway Association survey and recommendations on customer service facilities.

 

The Trust spends almost £4 million every year on maintaining the facilities and managing waste.  Many older facilities require investment, whilst the cost of providing and maintaining the Trust’s facilities is also increasing, with soaring inflation and, in too many cases, the need to repair vandalism to customer service buildings housing the facilities.

 

The Trust will be asking boaters about what facilities they consider essential: what facilities should and should not be provided by the Trust; what the minimum cruising distance between facilities should ideally be; and what local factors should be taken into consideration where there is higher or lower demand.  The process will also set a standard for the quality and availability of facilities.

 

Matthew Symonds, head of customer service at Canal & River Trust, said: “We know how important it is for boaters to be able to access water and waste facilities when they are cruising. In reality, many of the boater facilities that we provide have been installed over time without an over-arching national standard, which can make it hard for boaters to know how far they might have to travel and what they might find. 

 

“Set against the context of growing customer expectations and rising costs in providing and maintaining the facilities, we recognise that there is need to change and improve how we provide them. We want to ensure we provide facilities that boaters need, delivered to a consistent standard across our network, and that the facilities are better in terms of resilience and reliability, with fewer breakdowns and incidents of vandalism.

 

“The intention is to use our resources more effectively to deliver the best possible service for boaters. I would encourage all boaters to share their views on how we can achieve this together.”

 

Phase one of the consultation will take place until 21 November 2022. Boaters are invited to participate by completing the online consultation survey.

 

A second phase, which will look at existing facilities against the new minimum standard, will take place in 2023.

 

This consultation is not about any specific customer service facilities, but a national standard that will then inform decisions about local facilities. There is no intention to remove stand-alone water points.

 

Ends

 

For further media requests please contact:

Jonathan Ludford, Canal & River Trust

m 07747 897783 e jonathan.ludford@canalrivertrust.org.uk

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

Already under discussion and running to 4 pages of replies so far.

 

 

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1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Have you looked at the consultation survey https://online1.snapsurveys.com/CSF. 

Just so, the CRT are intending to provide more services where needed 

This does not mean every so

 many miles. Distance ie mileage has little to do with access, not if one has to negotiate locks etc.

13 hours ago, BEngo said:

The outdoor elsan, aka The Throne, is fine. No need for a flush tank, just a rinse pipe.  Cold hand wash from the rinse pipe is fine too.

The cast pillar type of water point can be made to comply with the water regs, and again is robust.

 

Rubbish points need a proper metal fence, a self closing door with a robust fixed lock and proper CCTV.  Then the legal department can do something useful prosecuting fly-tippers.

 

 

Fly tippers will not be easy to identify, they'll just wear masks.

Fencing won't help If the bins are never emptied, boaters will just throw bags over the fence.

Ive seen biker groups using toilets, with a key.  Really that's not a problem, problem is people accessing with crowbars 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Ive seen biker groups using toilets, with a key.

I’ve also seen walkers, dog walkers (professional ones), van lifers, caravanners, motorhomers, fisherman et al do the same, keys are easily available from eBay.

I do see this as a problem, as they are paying nothing towards any of it, they’re not even buying the keys from CRT as they get them cheaper elsewhere. I can’t see a way to stop this though sadly, the cat is out of the bag so to speak with the keys.

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If I'm using an  unknown Elsan I will sometimes take a bucket of warm soapy water to wash my hands,  public taps are not hygenic particularly Elsan taps.

6 minutes ago, Lady C said:

Providing some toilets for all the people CRT encourage to experience life being better by water seems quite reasonable to me.

There you go, it's the same with supermarkets, they even have to provide baby changing facilities.

I expect some RV users who stealth camp use the Elsan, annoying, but not much that can be done about it.

Edited by LadyG
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28 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Just so, the CRT are intending to provide more services where needed 

This does not mean every so

 many miles. Distance ie mileage has little to do with access, not if one has to negotiate locks etc.

 

 

You didn't read it then 

image.png.488753459274be63ac13d18e3e833c28.png

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37 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

You didn't read it then 

image.png.488753459274be63ac13d18e3e833c28.png

Obviously not, I think strategy for London is totally different to other parts of the network, but I'm not convinced that the situation has suddenly appeared, it might be a plan to say every three miles, then find some selfish landlubber objects to dozens of scruffy old boats queuing up to deposit shit at the bottom of their beautifully manicured waterside garden.

Edited by LadyG
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58 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

You didn't read it then 

image.png.488753459274be63ac13d18e3e833c28.png

That’s the IWA’s proposal, if I remember right, that CRT reckon they’re considering.

If so I can see CRT shutting down services where they see too many within a 5 mile stretch but I can’t see them opening more to achieve a service every 5 mile.

 

We might see some disappear around the BCN?

 

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