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What knots?


jupiter1124

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2 hours ago, Ray T said:

A splice is less bulky than a sheet bend. Also if you use a back space it is a “pretty” way of finishing your line off.

Use of a splice rather than a sheet bend comes from experience of many years of sailing offshore.

Agree about an eye splice but personally, not so keen on a Back splice - also known as a dogs cock for obvious reasons as it can jam if pulling the rope through a ring or through other tight places. I prefer a whipping to finish the end of a rope, which doesn't add bulk to the ropes end unlike the back splice.

 

 Howard

1 hour ago, Mike Tee said:

If you occasionally need a long rope, two 'normal' length mooring lines with eye splice in both, then just join via the eyes. Obviously won't run through a block but ideal at deep locks.

Alternatively, use a sheet bend.

 

Howard

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1 hour ago, Jerra said:

The harnesses I have used we clipped into the figure 8 with a Krab on one attachment to the harness.    Not fiddly at all.   Double the rope then tie figure of 8  (with practice you can do it one handed) then clip the loop formed into the Krab.

 

EDIT to add you could always clip two Krabs into the loop.

 

Yes, once I bought a harness of my own it consisted of a pair of leg loops and a waist belt linked with a loop of tape. It was easy with that to clip a figure 8 into a carabiner through that loop of tape.

 

Lord knows how old the Whillans sit harness was that I borrowed from the club to start with, but with that you threaded the rope through two loops at the waist then knotted it and passed the line through a carabiner at a lower central point. With that set up if you wanted to use a figure 8 instead you had to make a single one then thread the end through two loops of webbing, then thread the end through the figure 8 to complete the knot.  That's why I said it was easier to use a bowline with that particular piece of kit. I was happy to return it as I still remember that it could be somewhat uncomfortable when it took your weight suddenly through that single crotch strap. 

 

In case I was imagining it I went for a look and found this, though interestingly they show a figure 8 in use, so maybe I was taught to use it wrong:

image.png.763c0dbffe3608f9304b1d73db3480c7.png

Edited by alias
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2 minutes ago, alias said:

 

Yes, once I bought a harness of my own it consisted of a pair of leg loops and a waist belt linked with a loop of tape. It was easy with that to clip a figure 8 into a carabiner through that loop of tape.

 

Lord knows how old the Whillans sit harness was that I borrowed from the club to start with, but with that you threaded the rope through two loops at the waist then knotted it and passed the line through a carabiner at a lower central point. With that set up if you wanted to use a figure 8 instead you had to make a single one then thread the end through two loops of webbing, then thread the end through the figure 8 to complete the knot.  That's why I said it was easier to use a bowline with that particular piece of kit. I was happy to return it as I still remember that it could be somewhat uncomfortable when it took your weight suddenly through that single crotch strap. 

First willans I used didn't have leg loops, bugger that was uncomfortable 

 

The instructor made us hang upside down in them to prove to us how safe they were..

Edited by tree monkey
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34 minutes ago, howardang said:

Agree about an eye splice but personally, not so keen on a Back splice - also known as a dogs cock for obvious reasons as it can jam if pulling the rope through a ring or through other tight places. I prefer a whipping to finish the end of a rope, which doesn't add bulk to the ropes end unlike the back splice.

 

 

I only back splice my centre ropes to give a 'lumpy bit' to grab hold of. Haven't whipped the end of a rope since I left the Sea Scouts 60 years ago. I finish my splices with heat shrink. Bright red so I can always identify the end quickly.

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3 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

French or Portuguese?

 

 

I went up the mast on our sail boat the other week using a climbing harness and a couple of Prussic knots. Used to do it using a kleimheist knot.

 

To the OP, this is a good site if someone hasn't already posted it:

 

https://www.animatedknots.com/

 

ETA A triple bowline also make a pretty good, though somewhat uncomfortable climbing harness.

Edited by rusty69
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11 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

 

I went up the mast on our sail boat the other week using a climbing harness and a couple of Prussic knots. Used to do it using a kleimheist knot.

 

To the OP, this is a good site if someone hasn't already posted it:

 

https://www.animatedknots.com/

 

ETA A triple bowline also make a pretty good, though somewhat uncomfortable climbing harness.

Much of my climbing was done with a prussic, always worth having a couple of loops spare to make up a prussic, never got on with kleimheist 

 

most of the climbers today use various mechanical friction devices

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3 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

Much of my climbing was done with a prussic, always worth having a couple of loops spare to make up a prussic, never got on with kleimheist 

 

most of the climbers today use various mechanical friction devices

 

The prussic seems a bit better than the kleimheist to me.  I guess those mechanical ones are not as friendly to the rope, but much easier to use.

 

I also like a rolling hitch a clove hitch and a highwaymans hitch. But 90% of the time its the humble bowline.

 

 

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Just now, rusty69 said:

 

The prussic seems a bit better than the kleimheist to me.  I guess those mechanical ones are not as friendly to the rope, but much easier to use.

 

I also like a rolling hitch a clove hitch and a highwaymans hitch. But 90% of the time its the humble bowline.

 

 

The prussic used to lock up when dirty with tree snot or wet which apparently the other friction hitches didn't so much but I never quite trusted anything other than the prussic.

 

I alway forget how to tie a highwayman, but just make it up with some sort of loop made on the bight and random half hitches to lock it off 

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3 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

The prussic used to lock up when dirty with tree snot or wet which apparently the other friction hitches didn't so much but I never quite trusted anything other than the prussic.

 

I alway forget how to tie a highwayman, but just make it up with some sort of loop made on the bight and random half hitches to lock it off 

Yeah, I can only tie a highwayman hitch from a certain direction. Dick Turpin would not be impressed.

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3 hours ago, LadyG said:

For the correct knot, it's a Carrick Bend, do not use a reef knot, it's for reefing and things that need to be untied easily.
 

Agreed, the Carrick Bend is the ultimate safe knot for joining 2 ropes.  It weakens rope less than other knots, is totally secure, yet easily undone.  On the downside it is quite chunky.  However I believe in having ropes of the right length

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3 hours ago, LadyG said:

For the correct knot, it's a Carrick Bend, do not use a reef knot, it's for reefing and things that need to be untied easily.


So two votes for Carrick bend, two for sheet bend?

 

 

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

I use a clove hitch for attaching a stern mooring rope to a dollie

I have been told that I should use a clove hitch (I think) to attach a rope to my mooring pins (which do not have loops) so that if they pull out, they will remain attached to the rope. At the moment I just take the rope around two turns then back to the boat.

 

 

2 hours ago, jpcdriver said:

Another vote for the bowline. I tend to use it to create a small loop on the end of a centre line. I can then pass the ropes up to crew at deep locks usint the boat hook. I've also tied one around the chest (under arms) of someone who had fallen in first give him confidence that he wasn't going to drown and then to help pull him out (large guy, tall bank).

Thanks for a couple of boating-related uses for the bowline. I'm usually single handing, and if not i normally just throw the rope up, not sure it is the right knot for me. Any other uses that don't involve climbing things? I'm a ground ape, not a tree monkey :P

 

 

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

If you need a long rope more than a few times, buy one.

Related, I need to replace all my ropes as they have broken and frayed a bit and are getting too short.

I need two centrelines of about 12m each, a bow and a stern line of about 5m (?). Plus 3 or 4 lines each side, of about 2m each, for fenders (these could be thinner)

 

So that's possibly as much as 50m of rope needed - perhaps I should buy a reel? If I get a really long reel I could have a go at making my own fenders maybe.

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2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

I just looked at the carrick bend. Looks harder to do than a sheet bend to me.  I can do a sheet bend (and double sheet bend), but not carrick bend.

I think as with many things, knots are easy once you know how. I don't feel the need to learn two bends that are basically for the same purpose, so I'd rather just learn the better one?

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4 hours ago, jupiter1124 said:

 

The sheet bend looks just as easy to tie as a reef knot, so I may as well switch it out for that one if it's more secure, thanks. For a temporary fix, why not use a sheet bend rather than a splice?

 

What do you use it for? (bowline)

 

IIRC, a reef knot is for joining two pieces of rope of equal thickness, and a sheet bend two pieces of unequal thickness.

 

I have been sailing and canal boating for the best part of 50 years, and I probably only know 6 or 7 knots, and one of them always suits the situation.

 

I would add a sheet bend and a bowline to your armoury.

 

A bowline has more uses that I can imagine.... you will know when it suits.

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1 minute ago, jupiter1124 said:

I think as with many things, knots are easy once you know how. I don't feel the need to learn two bends that are basically for the same purpose, so I'd rather just learn the better one?

 

 

They must be used on a regular basis imo to be committed to memory. Sitting there with a book (or the website I linked to above) is great for learning how, but you will soon forget if they are not used in anger.

 

The better one probably is the carrick, but may be overkill for your purposes, so the easier may suffice.

 

Try both. Get a couple of small bits of line and have a go.

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I just tried the sheet bend and the carrick bend. Both feel strong, sheet is a little easier I'd say, carrick was a bit of a b*****d to untie but much prettier, I think I'll go for the sheet.

 

I am still not completely sure where I would use a bowline, but I tried it and it does "feel" useful.

 

You're right about needing to use them regularly, that's the reason I only know four. I have tried out many others but it's about getting yourself into a situation where you need a knot, knowing which one you want to reach for, and then being able to execute regularly.

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Reef Knot is in the name, for putting a reef in a sail

4 minutes ago, jupiter1124 said:

 

I am still not completely sure where I would use a bowline, but I tried it and it does "feel" useful.

 

Handy to tie in the end of a line to drop over a bollard. I have used it on the Thames when on unmaned locks. .Tied in the end of the stern line and dropped over a bollard then the boat controlled with the bow line. You can flick it off the bollard standing on the boat which is another advantage.   In fact anywhere you want to temporary secure the boat to a bollard 

Edited by ditchcrawler
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6 hours ago, jupiter1124 said:


I have done a back splice to finish off an old rope, but I just followed the instructions in my book

Once you have mastered the back splice try the eye splice. Much the neatest way to put an eye/loop in the boat end of your ropes which you can drop over a bollard or tee stud. For greater security flip the loop inside out (or pass the free end through the eye) to form a cow hitch which can be tightened around the stem of the bollard/tee stud, yet is easy to release when required. 

The knack to a decent looking eye splice is to get the first tuck on each strand right. After that it's just over and under as with the back splice.

Edited by David Mack
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10 hours ago, jupiter1124 said:

 

* for temporary mooring with the centre line back to the boat, a quick release hitch that I don't know the name of - tied by passing a loop of rope around a pole 3 times, then making another loop in the dangling end of the rope which you pass through the third loop. Can be untied by just pulling on the dangling rope. You can even pass the loop through a mooring ring, meaning the whole thing can be untied with one pull.

 

This knot is called "Highwayman's Cutaway" in  Colin Jarman and Bill Bevis' book "Modern Rope Seamanship". When, as a schoolboy in the 1950's,  I learned that, and other, knots from a page on knots in a scouting diary, they called it something like "Billy the Kid's knot".   1950's schoolboys were very into cowboys and the Wild West! 

Edited by Ronaldo47
typos
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23 hours ago, jupiter1124 said:

I just tried the sheet bend and the carrick bend. Both feel strong, sheet is a little easier I'd say, carrick was a bit of a b*****d to untie but much prettier, I think I'll go for the sheet.

 

I am still not completely sure where I would use a bowline, but I tried it and it does "feel" useful.

 

You're right about needing to use them regularly, that's the reason I only know four. I have tried out many others but it's about getting yourself into a situation where you need a knot, knowing which one you want to reach for, and then being able to execute regularly.

Like a lot of knots, if it is your 'go to' knot you then find a whole load of situations where you can use it. The beauty of a bowline is that no matter how much strain you put on it you can still untie it and yet it is a very secure knot. It is my 'go to' knot and examples of where I've used it are 1) to tie the centre line to the roof ring meaning it I ever want to use it for anything else I can just untie it 2) if I want to put a loop on the end of a mooring rope to throw over a mooring bollard and haven't got a splice loop on the end 3) if I'm recovering anyone from having fallen into the canal it creates a loop into which they can step without it tightening up around their foot 4) when mooring in Birmingham, I tie one tightly around the bollard and then tie off the other end on the boat, whilst it is an easy knot to untie, you cannot untie it under load, so it 'discourages' the muppets who might wish to cast you adrift. I'm sure that given time I can think of a variety of further uses, and then you go to all of its uses on sailing boats:)

Edited by Wanderer Vagabond
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