Actual use of anchors in emergencies on UK canal/river network

[Jerra]

34 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Accidentally by omission?

 

I got the distinct impression this chap knew he was still wearing it. He walked some distance.

Accidentally by omission of course.   As a pupil of mine once said when we explained gully scrambling to him "I may be daft but I'm not that daft".

33 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Sad thing is that many wear life jackets without crutch straps which makes the jacket about as useful as a chocolate fireguard.

Yet these people think they are reducing their risk

 

While I agree basically at least a life jacket without a crutch strap will give them a "straw to clutch at" as it rides up over their head.

[GUMPY]

32 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

The life jacket that probably saved my life when I fell in the river Avon as a non swimming child didn't have a crutch strap but it kept me a float until my father was able to come and rescue me.

Was it a self inflating one or was it a buoyancy aid that doesn't inflate.

I was refering self inflating  life jackets 

[GUMPY]

35 minutes ago, Jerra said:

While I agree basically at least a life jacket without a crutch strap will give them a "straw to clutch at" as it rides up over their head.

 

 

 

[IanD]

4 hours ago, Tacet said:

My query was more pedantic.  What number is 160 times lower than 1?  Maybe minus 159? But not a sensible probability 

More likely you meant 1/160

Relative probabilities -- which I was talking about -- are ratios, as I'm sure you're aware.

 

So 160 times lower means the probability is 160 times smaller. Since we must be talking about small numbers anyway (because only a tiny number of canal boats suffer anchor-related disasters), for the case in question "high risk" might mean (using the figure quoted somewhere above) 15%, which would make "typical risk" about 0.1% and "low risk" about 0.0006%... 😉

[Tacet]

10 hours ago, IanD said:

 

So 160 times lower means the probability is 160 times smaller. Since we must be talking about small numbers anyway (because only a tiny number of canal boats suffer anchor-related disasters), for the case in question "high risk" might mean (using the figure quoted somewhere above) 15%, which would make "typical risk" about 0.1% and "low risk" about 0.0006%... 😉

Neither 160 times lower nor 160 times smaller is the same as 1/160, which is what you meant.

 

Times lower is a horrible expression and rarely of any sensible mathematical use. The inverse operation of multiplication is division, not some form of negative multiplication.

[IanD]

3 hours ago, Tacet said:

Neither 160 times lower nor 160 times smaller is the same as 1/160, which is what you meant.

 

Times lower is a horrible expression and rarely of any sensible mathematical use. The inverse operation of multiplication is division, not some form of negative multiplication.

Were you by any chance a maths teacher, or just a pedant? 🙂

 

160 times lower or smaller when talking about probabilities or risk is perfectly clear in meaning and understandable to most people, and is a common way of expressing such, especially when making comparisons.

 

On a related subject (which I *do* tick people off about...), would you prefer to be known as one of the *few* intelligent people on the forum or one of the *less* intelligent? 😉

 

And just don't get me started about panini's... 😞

Edited October 4, 2022 by IanD

[cuthound]

18 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

Clearly a small minority but I agree it’s not almost nobody.

 

Earlier this year I even saw one chap get off his boat, lock it up and head off on foot down the towpath wearing his life jacket.

 

We’ve all got different appetites for risk.

 

Easily done if you get used to wearing something.

 

When I used to project manage the building of data centres, I had to wear to disposable blue shoe covers, once the raised modular floors had been fitted.

 

The number of times I realised I was still wearing them on the tube or train on the way home (and they are not the kind of thing you can discreetly shake off without anyone noticing what you are doing). 😅

[Midnight]

3 hours ago, IanD said:

 

 

On a related subject (which I *do* tick people off about...), would you prefer to be known as one of the *few* intelligent people on the forum or one of the *less* intelligent? 😉

 

 

 How to make friends and influence people! 
That statement has definitely placed you in the latter group.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Midnight said:

 How to make friends and influence people! 
That statement has definitely placed you in the latter group.

For crying out loud, it wasn't a dig at you, it was a hoary but popular joke based on the "less/fewer" grammar debate -- which was particularly relevant given your comments !!!!

Edited October 4, 2022 by IanD

[Midnight]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

For crying out loud, it wasn't a dig at you, it was a hoary but popular joke based on the "less/fewer" grammar debate -- which was particularly relevant given your comments !!!!

I didn't think it was a dig at me.

[TheBiscuits]

8 hours ago, IanD said:

And just don't get me started about panini's... 😞

 

What have you got against football sticker albums?

 

 

 

[Paul C]

What does the panini possess?

[Tacet]

Just now, Paul C said:

What does the panini possess?

 More likely the panini's cold or something similar....

[Allan(nb Albert)]

First one to call someone a Danforth anchor goes on the naughty step ...

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

First one to call someone a Danforth anchor goes on the naughty step ...

 

You are thinking this (aren't you)

 

 

 

 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

First one to call someone a Danforth anchor goes on the naughty step ...

 

Just calling someone a Danforth would be perfectly in the tradition of Cockney rhyming slang... 😉

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Paul C said:

What does the panini possess?

A perfect demonstration of the problem...

 

(should be "What do...", since "panini" is a plural)

 

Mind you, try asking for a scampo and see how many people get it... 😉

[LadyG]

On 03/10/2022 at 18:34, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Having some direct experience of the last one, what makes you think that wearing a lifejacket is going to make things any easier for someone pulling you out? I was standing by a lock once when an elderly lady fell in and her lifejacket immediately inflated. It was still a PITA to try to get her out of the canal again though. We eventually got her out by sinking a tarpaulin under her and lifing her out on what was essentially a sling.

I'm trying to prevent my drowning..

Which it did in your incident.

Using a jib sail and halyard is standard practice on a yacht , same idea.

My drowning is bad  enough for me and even worse for rescuers, I don't think they are too worried about lifting a casualty with a tarpaulin.

My lifejacket is an offshore affair with two bladders and one crotch strap, pretty sure I could be pulled out by two people using the neck / back strap 

Edited October 6, 2022 by LadyG

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I'm trying to prevent my drowning..

Which it did in your incident.

Using a jib sail and halyard is standard practice on a yacht , same idea.

My drowning is bad  enough for me and even worse for rescuers, I don't think they are too worried about lifting a casualty with a tarpaulin.

My lifejacket is an offshore affair with two bladders and one crotch strap, pretty sure I could be pulled out by two people using the neck / back strap 

You would not believe just how painful that is likely to be. We tried to haul the little old lady out via that method, she literally screamed in pain. I suppose that if you straddled  a mooring line and then asked a few people to try to lift you up with it, it may give the general idea

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

You would not believe just how painful that is likely to be. We tried to haul the little old lady out via that method, she literally screamed in pain. I suppose that if you straddled  a mooring line and then asked a few people to try to lift you up with it, it may give the general idea

 

 

Offshore 'twin-bladder and crotch strap' lifejackets (as well as many single bladder) usually incorporate a harness used for lifting / dragging the caualty out of the water.

A standard 'cheapy' lifejacket does not have a harness designed for taking the weight of a casualty,

 

Life jacket with safety harness - All boating and marine industry manufacturers (nauticexpo.com)

[Wanderer Vagabond]

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Offshore 'twin-bladder and crotch strap' lifejackets (as well as many single bladder) usually incorporate a harness used for lifting / dragging the caualty out of the water.

A standard 'cheapy' lifejacket does not have a harness designed for taking the weight of a casualty,

 

Life jacket with safety harness - All boating and marine industry manufacturers (nauticexpo.com)

I've never actually tried to be lifted out of the water by a lifejacket but the question I'd tend to ask would be will it have engaged under your arms before the crotch strap cuts your nuts off? I'm more than content to see someone else test the theory.

[LadyG]

27 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I've never actually tried to be lifted out of the water by a lifejacket but the question I'd tend to ask would be will it have engaged under your arms before the crotch strap cuts your nuts off? I'm more than content to see someone else test the theory.

I've lifted quite a few people out of the water, best if one is trained, the casualty is relatively light and fit, and the rescue boat is designed for the job.

I also did an offshore rescue  exercise, simulating jumping off a ferry, the idea is to cross hands to hold lifejacket down on entry to

 prevent it rising up

  A bit like falling off a tidal Trent lock,. But we were jumping in to a swimming pool off the top board  no one got hurt, and we were all rescued using the lifejacket method.

not so easy in cold dirty water of course.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by LadyG

[Wanderer Vagabond]

13 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I've lifted quite a few people out of the water, best if one is trained, if the casualty is relatively light and fit, and the rescue boat is designed for the job.

I did an offshore rescue  exercise, simulating jumping off a ferry, the idea is to cross hands to hold lifejacket down on entry to

 prevent it rising up

 , A bit like falling off a tidal Trent lock.

 

 

 

 

Yes. I've done safety boat for our sailing club and pulled people out onto a rib which is relatively easy particularly if they can assist and you can get hold of parts of their anatomy (legs, etc). For pulling someone out of a lock however, none of the ideals are there (except hopefully a lock ladder).As you say if you jump in with a lifejacket on it is probably best to cross hands to hold the lifejacket down on entry to stop it riding up , but since they are designed to inflate and turn an unconscious casualty face up in an emergency, it's not essential to do so since that is what the crotch strap is there for. Trying to haul them out of the lock with the crotch strap cutting into their nether regions is a different prospect however, I'm sure it can be done and would be more than willing to watch someone else demonstrate how.

[Ewan123]

Apparently a narrowboat deployed their anchor a few days ago on the tidal Thames when their gears failed, and successfully awaited rescue by the RNLI without drifting along in the current.

 

I don't have more details though... did anyone else hear about it?

Edited October 7, 2022 by Ewan123

[Scholar Gypsy]

On 07/10/2022 at 21:38, Ewan123 said:

Apparently a narrowboat deployed their anchor a few days ago on the tidal Thames when their gears failed, and successfully awaited rescue by the RNLI without drifting along in the current.

 

I don't have more details though... did anyone else hear about it?

Yes, on the London Boaters page on Facebook a couple of days ago.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/londonboaters/posts/10158443110681286/?comment_id=10158443314031286

The boater concerned said  "I had to deploy an anchor yesterday, just by Brentford coming from Limehouse to Kingston. RNLI had to come and tow us, lost the gears. Just a point for anyone that thinks an anchor isn’t worth bothering with on the tidal Thames."