Actual use of anchors in emergencies on UK canal/river network

[Momac]

10 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

Yes, on the London Boaters page on Facebook a couple of days ago.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/londonboaters/posts/10158443110681286/?comment_id=10158443314031286

The boater concerned said  "I had to deploy an anchor yesterday, just by Brentford coming from Limehouse to Kingston. RNLI had to come and tow us, lost the gears. Just a point for anyone that thinks an anchor isn’t worth bothering with on the tidal Thames." 

Boats can spend a long time at low power and  everything is fine. Then the boat is asked to work  a bit harder and  something  fails or doesn't work as it should . Its not an uncommon event. Most of the time the journey  is completed  one way or another without  help from emergency services . It doesn't make the news.

A couple of times this year boats travelling with is had issues of this sort on the tidal Trent. 

They got home under their own power and anchors were not required. But in all  cases the boats had an anchor available. 

 

 

[IanD]

7 hours ago, MartynG said:

Boats can spend a long time at low power and  everything is fine. Then the boat is asked to work  a bit harder and  something  fails or doesn't work as it should . Its not an uncommon event. Most of the time the journey  is completed  one way or another without  help from emergency services . It doesn't make the news.

A couple of times this year boats travelling with is had issues of this sort on the tidal Trent. 

They got home under their own power and anchors were not required. But in all  cases the boats had an anchor available. 

 

 

 

Which is exactly my point... 😉

 

(and if anchors were not required, why is the fact that they were available relevant when they turned out to just sit there unused?)

 

If you want to have an anchor available "just in case" (or spend most or all of your time on rivers) then that's absolutely fine, that's *your* assessment of how much safer you think it makes your boat.

 

However in reality most boaters will never have to deploy an anchor like this in their entire boating lifetime, as described by several posters on this forum with many years boating on rivers, and also by the very small number of events like this each year (or Alan's "boat over the weir" one) compared to the number of boats which venture out onto rivers.

 

For a boat which spends most of its time on the canals with occasional trips onto rivers, not having an anchor is also a valid choice based on an assessment of how tiny the chance is of it ever being used or needed *and* doing its job *and* saving the boat from disaster.

 

It's a personal choice, I'm not saying that either approach is right or wrong -- unlike people making posts which subtly (or sometimes less subtly...) imply "you're an idiot if you don't have an anchor"... 😉

[Jerra]

To me an anchor is like any other safety device, you hope you will never need to use it but are very glad you have it when you need it.  I can probably count on my fingers how many times I have needed a spare wheel on a car but I wouldn't want to go far without one.

[Paul C]

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

To me an anchor is like any other safety device, you hope you will never need to use it but are very glad you have it when you need it.  I can probably count on my fingers how many times I have needed a spare wheel on a car but I wouldn't want to go far without one.

 

Do you restrict the car(s) you buy to only those which carry a spare wheel, which is the minority of cars now? Or upgrade to the cost option to have a spare?

 

The AA nowadays carry a 'multi-manufacturer fit' spare wheel, to sort out instances where the spare is needed and the inflation kit can't fix the tyre.

[Jerra]

4 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Do you restrict the car(s) you buy to only those which carry a spare wheel, which is the minority of cars now? Or upgrade to the cost option to have a spare?

 

The AA nowadays carry a 'multi-manufacturer fit' spare wheel, to sort out instances where the spare is needed and the inflation kit can't fix the tyre.

I have never had a car which doesn't have some form of wheel to fit to get you (even if at a restricted speed) to a garage.  I wouldn't want to be stuck even in a "refuge on one of these crazy "smart" motorways (which are anything but smart) waiting for rescue for something as simple as  a wheel being fixed.

 

However on a river you aren't able to hang about until CRR or somebody comes along with a "multi fit" anchor.

[Paul C]

11 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I have never had a car which doesn't have some form of wheel to fit to get you (even if at a restricted speed) to a garage.  I wouldn't want to be stuck even in a "refuge on one of these crazy "smart" motorways (which are anything but smart) waiting for rescue for something as simple as  a wheel being fixed.

 

However on a river you aren't able to hang about until CRR or somebody comes along with a "multi fit" anchor.

 

I guess you've only had older cars, or certain brands, because its definitely a trend in newer (ie last 5 years) cars.

[Jerra]

11 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

I guess you've only had older cars, or certain brands, because its definitely a trend in newer (ie last 5 years) cars.

The current car has the spare wheel on the back door.

[Momac]

41 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I have never had a car which doesn't have some form of wheel to fit to get you (even if at a restricted speed) to a garage.  

My last two cars had no spare  . That takes us back to 2015.  So not a new idea.

[GUMPY]

16 minutes ago, MartynG said:

My last two cars had no spare  . That takes us back to 2015.  So not a new idea.

My Yeti had no spare that's 2010.

[Momac]

4 hours ago, IanD said:

 

 

It's a personal choice, 

Yes it is 

There is no legal requirement to have an anchor. Unless someone knows differently.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Allan(nb Albert)]

9 hours ago, Loddon said:

My Yeti had no spare that's 2010.

Abominable.

[IanD]

11 hours ago, Loddon said:

My Yeti had no spare that's 2010.

Lots of cars since then have had no spare, just one of those "cans of gunk" tyre sealer/inflators which often don't work and mean the tyre is unrepairable. On my last two cars I've paid (about £100) for an emergency spare wheel instead -- and before someone says "Aha, hypocrite!" this is also based on an assessment of risk... 😉

 

Unlike canal-anchor-disasters punctures are not uncommon, I've had several over the years and had to resort to the emergency spare (if fitted) to get me home and keep me going until I could get a repair/replacement, or tried using the can-of-gunk which didn't... 😞

[Paul C]

I can see why car manufacturers shifted towards no spare wheel. Thinking back over my driving lifetime, the number of punctures vs the mileage covered, it would definitely be a consideration regarding weight/fuel/cost saving vs inconvenience.

 

My thoughts are that punctures are caused (mainly) by 2 things: running over a sharp object, and underinflation. With the widespread adoption of TPMS, the latter worry is addresses. The former - if you do a lot of driving at night, its a risk you take, but in the daytime its possible to avoid many things yourself and not get a puncture at all.

[Jerra]

51 minutes ago, Paul C said:

I can see why car manufacturers shifted towards no spare wheel. Thinking back over my driving lifetime, the number of punctures vs the mileage covered, it would definitely be a consideration regarding weight/fuel/cost saving vs inconvenience.

 

My thoughts are that punctures are caused (mainly) by 2 things: running over a sharp object, and underinflation. With the widespread adoption of TPMS, the latter worry is addresses. The former - if you do a lot of driving at night, its a risk you take, but in the daytime its possible to avoid many things yourself and not get a puncture at all.

To me that is the point.  A puncture is an inconvenience needing an anchor when you don't have one is potentially life threatening.   Yet the majority of motorists will have some way of mitigating the situation even if it is just "gunk" to spare into the tyre.   It seems odd somebody would consider not taking the same precautions against potentially life threatening situations.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 minute ago, Jerra said:

To me that is the point.  A puncture is an inconvenience needing an anchor when you don't have one is potentially life threatening.   Yet the majority of motorists will have some way of mitigating the situation even if it is just "gunk" to spare into the tyre.   It seems odd somebody would consider not taking the same precautions against potentially life threatening situations.

I would suggest that a puncture on one of these damn fool 'smart' motorways is indeed life threatening.

[Jerra]

43 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I would suggest that a puncture on one of these damn fool 'smart' motorways is indeed life threatening.

Probably but for most people the vast majority of punctures aren't life threatening.

[IanD]

51 minutes ago, Jerra said:

To me that is the point.  A puncture is an inconvenience needing an anchor when you don't have one is potentially life threatening.   Yet the majority of motorists will have some way of mitigating the situation even if it is just "gunk" to spare into the tyre.   It seems odd somebody would consider not taking the same precautions against potentially life threatening situations.

If everyone took all possible precautions against all potentially life-threatening situations they'd never leave the house, and certainly wouldn't ever drive or travel in a car -- or a train, or a plane, or a ship/boat. And they'd definitely live in a bungalow (no stairs), stay out of the kitchen (most dangerous room in the house), and not indulge in any DIY (most dangerous domestic activity) or gardening. And while they weren't in the house they wouldn't do anything like cycling, or walking (pedestrian deaths), and certainly nothing like bungee jumping or sky-diving or scuba-diving or rock climbing or...

 

There is no such thing as a zero risk activity, and no such thing as 100% safe -- including safety precautions, some of which have significant costs/inconvenience/disadvantages. What people deem safe and unsafe is an individual choice; what seems fine to one person might seem risky to another ("it seems odd..."), but that doesn't mean that either is "wrong" 😉

 

Of course there are safety precautions like seatbelts and airbags where accidents leading to them being needed happen all the time, they are very effective, and they save many lives. The reported incidents and frequency suggest that anchors on narrowboats are *not* one of these cases (hence what I've been saying), but if having one makes people like Jerra feel safer then they should fit one, it's their choice. Even if I disagree with them I certainly wouldn't say that people doing this are wrong, and -- especially given the actual evidence of risk -- it would be nice if they would return this courtesy... 🙂

 

Punctures are pretty common -- I've had at least half a dozen over the years -- and can be (sometimes very) inconvenient and occasionally life-threatening. Run-flat tyres are one solution -- I've had cars with them in the past -- but are expensive to buy and not repairable, and often degrade ride and noise -- but they are the safest solution. Gunk can leave you stranded if/when it doesn't work, and the tyre usually has to be thrown away afterwards. An spare wheel -- emergency or full-size -- always works, and the punctured tyre can often be repaired, so many (most?) people would say this is the best solution. In spite of this, car manufacturers have been removing them to save cost and weight.

 

Anchors on narrowboats -- not so clear-cut... 😉

Edited October 10, 2022 by IanD

[Paul C]

On a similar theme, which narrowboat builders fit an anchor as standard?

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Paul C said:

On a similar theme, which narrowboat builders fit an anchor as standard?

AFAIK none, unless you ask for (and pay for) one.

 

And unless you *specifically* ask for something better, it'll be a Danforth -- just like most (all?) hire boat firms drop into the well deck if you say you're going on a river. Probably too light and with too short/light chain and rope too, going by the ones I've seen... 😞

Edited October 10, 2022 by IanD

[peterboat]

I have an anchor, I use rivers all the time, not fast flowing ones but they have a current. If I was caught on that river in heavy rain and that heavy rain means more debris, my risk of needing an anchor has increased and my risk of injury from not having one has increased. I have always had an anchor and more recently a mud weight, if I was purely on canals I would not bother with the anchor as I couldn't see the point. 

[enigmatic]

Update: I can now add a data point as a Canalworld user who has deployed in an emergency situation (probable drive plate failure in mid river). There's always one...

 

Location: Thames 

Weather: Not good, wind and yellow boards

Anchor deployed: Brittany (one of the compact budget ones, although I've heard it suggested it's marginally better than the Danforth)

Prior deployment experience: nil

Drag: a little, but not much considering

Decision to purchase: vindicated (although I'll probably still leave it in the locker on the Great Ouse in summer)

 

 

Timeliness of trip boat going past and their assistance: excellent  

[IanD]

43 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Update: I can now add a data point as a Canalworld user who has deployed in an emergency situation (probable drive plate failure in mid river). There's always one...

 

Location: Thames 

Weather: Not good, wind and yellow boards

Anchor deployed: Brittany (one of the compact budget ones, although I've heard it suggested it's marginally better than the Danforth)

Prior deployment experience: nil

Drag: a little, but not much considering

Decision to purchase: vindicated (although I'll probably still leave it in the locker on the Great Ouse in summer)

 

 

Timeliness of trip boat going past and their assistance: excellent  

 

Glad to hear it worked for you, especially given the poor reputation of Britany/Danforth anchors. Do you know what size Britany this was, and how big is your boat?

[Proper Charlie]

I used our anchor on the Trent this summer. Leaving the lock at Holme and heading upriver to Nottingham, the engine coughed and died in the middle of the river, about 200 yards above the weir. There wasn't a great deal of flow on at the time but I went into a cold sweat. Tried to restart but it wouldn't fire up. I left my wife at the stern, rushed through the boat and dropped the anchor. As the boat slowly drifted downriver and the rope began to tighten, my wife yelled that she'd got the engine started. Back through the boat, gave the engine a few revs in neutral and it spluttered a bit but stayed alive. Back through the boat again and hauled the anchor back in, realising that 25kg is quite a lot to pull vertically from the water. But I did it. Back to the stern and continued on our way, very nervous and tuned in to every pulse and hiccup of the engine. We got into Nottingham and I called RCR out. The engineer couldn't find anything but agreed with me that the choppy waters on the Trent (it was very windy and we were heading into both the current and the wind) had probably stirred up some gunk in the fuel tank which caused a blockage before clearing.

 

Looking back, I feel enormously relieved and lucky, but also pleased that I could deploy the anchor without mishap. It's not the sort of thing any/many of us practise, certainly not me.

 

So, I reckon you should always carry an anchor on a river. On another day, if the engine hadn't restarted and especially if there was more flow on the river, we would have been on the boom above the lock in three or four minutes. 

 

 

[LadyG]

On 09/10/2022 at 22:58, MartynG said:

Yes it is 

There is no legal requirement to have an anchor. Unless someone knows differently.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Insurance, small print.

[enigmatic]

29 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Glad to hear it worked for you, especially given the poor reputation of Britany/Danforth anchors. Do you know what size Britany this was, and how big is your boat?

Sub 20kg which is too small for my 57 footer (which has it's practical advantages for deployment I guess, and the guy on the trip boat made hauling it in look very easy).

 

It was a "what they had in stock at Tradline" purchase. 

 

I'm glad I wasn't near a weir, but there was plenty of flow (enough to thwart my attempts to haul myself in with branches and it held me in mid-river whilst I furiously phoned nearby marinas to see if anyone had a working tug and wind too, which produced one very nervy moment

 

I did have plenty of chain, and rope (after I'd cut the strings that had held it neatly coiled for 18 months  ). My T-stud, a basic welding jobby, held fast

Edited November 24, 2022 by enigmatic