Actual use of anchors in emergencies on UK canal/river network

[Wanderer Vagabond]

41 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Having a commercial boatmasters licence for the Trent both Tidal and non Tidal for 250 passengers I can also say Ive never heard of " Trentlink " ?? 

We carried two anchors, a bruce and a Danforth on the two boats I skippered. Approx 60 and 110 tons ( the boats, not the anchors lol ). We deployed them at least monthly during training but never once in anger. However including on the boat I sold last year I had a substantial length of warp including a very heavy chain, classed as disposable and a one of use if needed. A good idea a friend of mine had was a 60 kg Danforth mounted on a wooden board on the roof of his narrowboat that could be tipped over the side if needed, no need to lift it. You did have to get on the roof to deploy it but that was no problem, it may well have ended up taking paint off but thats of zero consequence.

I take it the the 60Kg Danforth was intended as a 'single use' piece of kit then? or does your friend have a winch on his narrow boat because he won't be hauling up 60Kg plus chain plus all attached mud by hand.

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

I'm on the Kennet at the moment and seriously considering shoving it back in the locker. 

 

FWIW I've stalled, bled the engine and restarted dozens of times over the long stretch between marinas on the lower reaches of the Nene without ever once considering deploying an anchor (the Trent would be a different story). On the other hand, I've tripped over the bloody thing on the bows a couple of times, and reckon on most UK rivers that's probably more of a risk than simply not having an anchor.

Which is the kind of view I'm coming to...

 

(and I also notice from a quote that mrsmelly said "We deployed them at least monthly during training but never once in anger.")

Edited September 27, 2022 by IanD

[mrsmelly]

8 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I take it the the 60Kg Danforth was intended as a 'single use' piece of kit then? or does your friend have a winch on his narrow boat because he won't be hauling up 60Kg plus chain plus all attached mud by hand.

Single use, thats what they are generaly for on narrowboats, just emergency kit. It was a great idea/system and would have saved the day we think. Anchors on narrowboats for the vast majority of people are just for emergencies. Still very much needed bit of kit like lifejackets and vhf radio.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Single use, thats what they are generaly for on narrowboats, just emergency kit. It was a great idea/system and would have saved the day we think. Anchors on narrowboats for the vast majority of people are just for emergencies. Still very much needed bit of kit like lifejackets and vhf radio.

So essentially then, once he's resolved whatever the issue with his boat is, he's going to cut the warp free and leave it in the river. I cannot imagine how 'pleased' I'd be, going down the Trent and picking up a stray warp around my prop if it was attached to a 60 kg anchor

[CIEL]

26 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Needing to use an anchor regularly to moor on a river or in a tideway is a very different use case, this is when all the things Alan is concerned about like holding under a swinging tide matter. Using a tender to get to the bar isn't ever going to happen on a narrowboat... 😉

But Ciel is a 36 ft narrowboat and the on board supplies were running low towards the end of our boys weekend away.  So it happened.

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, CIEL said:

But Ciel is a 36 ft narrowboat and the on board supplies were running low towards the end of our boys weekend away.  So it happened.

You were dragging a tender behind a narrowboat? Can't see that working on most canals, especially where the boat fills the lock... 😉

Edited September 27, 2022 by IanD

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

So essentially then, once he's resolved whatever the issue with his boat is, he's going to cut the warp free and leave it in the river. I cannot imagine how 'pleased' I'd be, going down the Trent and picking up a stray warp around my prop if it was attached to a 60 kg anchor

Yes thats what probably would have happened. It would have stopped him going over the weir though. As everybody knows, emergency situations were anchors are deployed on narrowboats are extremely rare. Sod all use having an easy retreavable 10kg anchor to deploy that will be less than useless.

[enigmatic]

27 minutes ago, IanD said:

Which is the kind of view I'm coming to...

 

(and I also notice from a quote that mrsmelly said "We deployed them at least monthly during training but never once in anger.")

 

tbf, if I was having a boat built for me with no expense spared and wanted to cruise the Trent/Severn/Ribble Link I've seen some quite nifty deployment apparatus that would be a bit less in the way. Also wouldn't be in the way on the bow if I didn't have a cratch board

 

[howardang]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

I don't think anyone would dispute your expertise in offshore oil matters, including 5 and 10 ton anchors 😉

 

But you always need to beware of extrapolating from one set of circumstances to a totally different one, especially where safety and risk are concerned. Formula One drivers wear fireproof suits and crash helmets and their cars have extreme (and extremely expensive) safety precautions to enable them to walk away from 200mph crashes, but I don't think anyone would suggest that these are appropriate for their granny driving a Nissan Micra to the shops... 😉

Thanks for the advice but I think I already was aware of the point you make, and I think I am capable of judging the difference and acting accordingly.

 That was really the point I was making when mentioning that seamanship is seamanship wherever you find yourself.  😋

 

Howard
 

 

 

[blackrose]

I think you're right, having to deploy an anchor is rare, but that doesn't mean having an anchor and appropriate chain/rope can be ignored.

 

My engine started to overheat on the tidal Thames once between Brentford and Teddington because of a snapped fanbelt. Fortunately it happened at slack water between tides and I was travelling with another boat and had their phone number so they turned around and came back to give me a tow. Otherwise if I'd been alone I'd have had no option other than drop an anchor.

Edited September 27, 2022 by blackrose

[Chris John]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I presume with that statement that you'll never be venturing on the River Trent downstream of Nottingham.

 

There is always a current and the locks are within yards of the weir so you don't have many options.

 

Did it in the summer. Not much current and floating booms over weir entrance. If I had engine failure I’m not sure given those conditions this summer I’d deploy the anchor. I’d let boat come into contact with the boom. Also did tidal section with another boat. I did have the anchor ready to be deployed 

[Alway Swilby]

I've deployed our anchor once in anger. Upstream on the Thames above Clifton Lock the engine overheated. There was no immediate danger and looking back I think we could have probably caught hold of a branch of a tree and tied to that. 

I've also deployed the same anchor as a planned mooring at Trent Falls whilst waiting for the tide to turn. 

Both times I had no problems retrieving the anchor (20kg Danforth).

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Chris John said:

Did it in the summer. Not much current and floating booms over weir entrance. If I had engine failure I’m not sure given those conditions this summer I’d deploy the anchor. I’d let boat come into contact with the boom. Also did tidal section with another boat. I did have the anchor ready to be deployed 

 

Are you aware that those booms (actually called Dolphins) are not designed to stop NB's going over the weir ?

 

I know of two instances where NBs have been turned sideways against the dolphins and the current has rolled them undeneath the dolphins.

It was when a squad of Soldiers were swept over the weir at Cromwell with 10 of them drowning and only 1 surviving that the Dolphins were introduced.

[Chris John]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Are you aware that those booms (actually called Dolphins) are not designed to stop NB's going over the weir ?

 

I know of two instances where NBs have been turned sideways against the dolphins and the current has rolled them undeneath the dolphins.

It was when a squad of Soldiers were swept over the weir at Cromwell with 10 of them drowning and only 1 surviving that the Dolphins were introduced.

Like I said there was minimal flow and whilst they may not have been designed to they probably would with that amount of flow ( yes I’ve read about that story and seen the monument at the lock) 

 

You sure they’re called dolphins? 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Chris John

[MoominPapa]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Are you aware that those booms (actually called Dolphins) are not designed to stop NB's going over the weir ?

 

I know of two instances where NBs have been turned sideways against the dolphins and the current has rolled them undeneath the dolphins.

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2012-11-01/narrow-boat-sinks

 

MP.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2012-11-01/narrow-boat-sinks

 

MP.

 

 

The Trent is just a tad wider, allowing more room for NBs to lift the dolphins and roll under them .................................

 

 

[Chris John]

5 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2012-11-01/narrow-boat-sinks

 

MP.

The Environment Agency had issued a Strong Stream Advice warning before the boat sunk because of high flows on the River Nene.
 

Bigger fools them for being on the river in those conditions 

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, Chris John said:

Like I said there was minimal flow and whilst they may not have been designed to they probably would with that amount of flow ( yes I’ve read about that story and seen the monument at the lock) 

 

 

You may be surprised how little flow it takes to hold and roll a 'sideways on' NB against a restriction.

 

11 minutes ago, Chris John said:

You sure they’re called dolphins? 

 

They always were by BW, and when C&RT closed the Trent because the 'barrier' has snapped the closure notice aid they had to source new Dolphins from the EU as there were non held in stock by C&RT.

The River was closed to leisure traffic for weeks.

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, howardang said:

However, in a professional capacity, I spent a good proportion of my seagoing career as Chief Officer and then Master of anchor handling supply vessels working in the offshore oil industry in many parts of the world and as such I can modestly claim a more than average knowledge of anchor handling techniques and anchor deployment in its many aspects, both controlled and in emergency situations,

 

I may have asked this before, but where you the bugger who knocked me out of bed in the middle of the night laying anchors in the Leman Field?

[Midnight]

When travelling down on the ebb from Naburn (Cawood) to Selby on a friend's boat the engine stalled when the prop got a log stuck in it so I deployed the anchor. We did eventually stop and we were able to retieve the anchor when we got going again. 

[Chris John]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

They always were by BW, and when C&RT closed the Trent because the 'barrier' has snapped the closure notice aid they had to source new Dolphins from the EU as there were non held in stock by C&RT.

The River was closed to leisure traffic for weeks.

When I worked in maritime a dolphin was a structure a vessel tied to 🤷‍♂️

[howardang]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I may have asked this before, but where you the bugger who knocked me out of bed in the middle of the night laying anchors in the Leman Field?

No, not guilty  but I do remember being sent out from Great Yarmouth late one evening to take out an urgent piece of equipment. On arrival at Charlie around 0300 no one was keeping a VHF listening watch and there was no sign of life anywhere on the platform. After calling for quite a while we gently put the bow alongside a platform leg and beat a tattoo on the leg with a hammer.  The reaction was amazing! That would be in the early 1970’s

 

Howard

 

 

 

[howardang]

9 minutes ago, Chris John said:

When I worked in maritime a dolphin was a structure a vessel tied to 🤷‍♂️

I agree - a dolpin is usually a fixed structure at each end of a jetty for a ship to moor to. I have always known the floating barriers in question as Booms.

 

Howard

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, howardang said:

No, not guilty  but I do remember being sent out from Great Yarmouth late one evening to take out an urgent piece of equipment. On arrival at Charlie around 0300 no one was keeping a VHF listening watch and there was no sign of life anywhere on the platform. After calling for quite a while we gently put the bow alongside a platform leg and beat a tattoo on the leg with a hammer.  The reaction was amazing! That would be in the early 1970’s

 

Howard

 

 

 

I had very similar, we didn't run a night shift and due to an unfortunate happening the communication with Bacton Terminal. As they wanted us in the early hours of the morning they contacted the standby vessel. they in turn put a man on the spider deck who worked his way up to deck level, found the door into the accommodation, came up the stairs and threw my bedroom door open. so I am laying in bed in a dark room and this seaman in all his gear is standing in the doorway silhouetted by the light in the corridor. Not the best thing for the blood pressure.

[Momac]