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Actual use of anchors in emergencies on UK canal/river network


IanD

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I know the subject of anchors is a contentious one and what is the best choice has been argued to death, but I have a different question...

 

For those boating regularly on the canal/river network -- meaning, including rivers which are commonly (but occasionally, for a particular boater) travelled on like the Trent and Ribble Link and Avon and Severn, but not tidal waters/estuaries or mooring up in them -- how many boaters on CWDF have ever had to actually deploy an anchor in an emergency on a river like these, for example due to loss of power?

 

My suspicion is that even though many (most? all?) boats which occasionally venture out onto such rivers have them on board, actually deploying them in anger is an extremely rare occurrence. Certainly on the hire boats I've been on which have had them onboard (because of possible routes onto rivers) there has never been any instruction or training about how to use them, which suggests that they're there as an insurance/box-ticking exercise not because they're ever expected to be used -- or indeed, useful, since a lot of them (small Danforths, short chain, short rope) would probably be about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

 

 I'll pre-empt Alan insisting that a high-performance anchor/chain/warp is *absolutely* essential because a narrowboat once went over a weir (or one saved him when moored off a lee shore in a gale...) by saying I'm looking for experiences of boaters who've had to deploy one themselves, and why, and where... 😉

 

 

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Had the engine fail on the Thames near Henley. We were heading upstream and just below a lock (can't remember which lock now) when the engine died. Knowing that the next weir was miles downstream I didn't panic, and I decided dropping the mud weight (bucket full of concrete) would make more sense as it shouldn't lead to any recovery problems. It slowed us down, but didn't stop us. But the force of the current from the adjacent weir pushed us towards the bank, and I managed to hook the pole around the railings along the edge of the adjacent garden. Then tied the bow rope loosely to the railings, retrieved the mud weight, and went to sort the engine.  I don't think the householder even noticed us.

Would the anchor have been more successful? I don't know, but I do know I can't rely on the mud weight in flowing water.

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I’d have to be seriously in the shit to deploy my anchor and by that I mean knowing I was near a weir. If the current was that strong that the boat was quickly heading towards a weir I wouldn’t be on the river in the first place. If it’s tidal I’d travel with another boat for safety. 

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4 minutes ago, Chris John said:

I’d have to be seriously in the shit to deploy my anchor and by that I mean knowing I was near a weir. If the current was that strong that the boat was quickly heading towards a weir........................

 

I presume with that statement that you'll never be venturing on the River Trent downstream of Nottingham.

 

There is always a current and the locks are within yards of the weir so you don't have many options.

 

 

47 minutes ago, IanD said:

 I'll pre-empt Alan insisting that a high-performance anchor/chain/warp is *absolutely* essential because a narrowboat once went over a weir

 

Sttements like that do you no favours at all.

 

A suitable anchor for the size and weight of boat and suitable chain / warp is necessary, there is little point in carrying something that will not do what it is needed to do in an emergency.

I spent about 10 years with a NB based on the River Trent, and, my knowedge, experience and a good maintenance regime managed to avoid having to deploy an anchor, but I have assisted several who have not been so 'lucky'.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Chris John said:

If it’s tidal I’d travel with another boat for safety. 

 

It is not easy to approach and get a line aboard a boat drifting - we had a boat dragging its anchor, it was spinning in the (normal River Trent ) current from side to side thru' about 120 degrees and it took 2 of us (2 boats) about 15 minutes and half-a-dozen attempts each before we could get a line secured.

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27 minutes ago, jpcdriver said:

There's a couple of descriptions of actual use on the Trentlink anchor information page: https://trentlink.wordpress.com/anchors/

Thanks for the link. I notice it says:

 

"Despite running a Post today on Trentlink, and running an extended post on the same subject a few months ago, we have received only 2 reports of folk using their anchors in an emergency from narrowboats (surely the most difficult to anchor as they usually have no fitted systems). Both cases had Danforth anchors with chain and rope and were correctly prepared for the river. Both anchored more than once with engine problems, so we seem to have a total of 4 or 5 anchor operations, including one from the stern (Hardly a convincing sample and over an indefinite time frame, but perhaps indicative that this is not something that happens very often?)."

 

Kind of confirms my suspicions -- but surprisingly both used a Danforth successfully, which goes against the "you need a high performance anchor" viewpoint. No doubt this is true in open-water or estuary conditions or for regular mooring, but they seem to work OK for emergency use on rivers -- at least, going by this small sample...

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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

[snip]

 

A suitable anchor for the size and weight of boat and suitable chain / warp is necessary, there is little point in carrying something that will not do what it is needed to do in an emergency.

I spent about 10 years with a NB based on the River Trent, and, my knowedge, experience and a good maintenance regime managed to avoid having to deploy an anchor, but I have assisted several who have not been so 'lucky'.

 

It is not easy to approach and get a line aboard a boat drifting - we had a boat dragging its anchor, it was spinning in the (normal River Trent ) current from side to side thru' about 120 degrees and it took 2 of us (2 boats) about 15 minutes and half-a-dozen attempts each before we could get a line secured.

 

Which is what you always say, and no doubt is true in more severe conditions -- or with poor maintenance, which is not a matter of luck. You admit that in 10 years on the Trent you've never had to deploy an anchor in these circumstances; I was asking for information from people who have... 😉

 

Whether something is necessary depends on how often the emergency arises (and why) and how bad it is and how easy to fix; you always say that the likes of Danforths are essentially useless, but this seems to be contradicted by the Trentlink blog -- and indeed, your own experience of 10 years without a deployment suggests that "necessary" is too strong a word... 😉

Edited by IanD
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Late 1980s travelling downstream on the river Trent from Cranfleet to Nottingham with my wife in her dad's 49ft narrowboat (a Springer) we had an engine failure. We had a mud weight, I recall it was a lump of steel around 25kg and that stopped the boat and held it whilst I bodged a repair to the burst cooling hose to limp back to base on the Erewash.

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2 minutes ago, IanD said:

Danforths are essentially useless, but this seems to be contradicted by the Trentlink blog.

 

Having been on the Trent for many years and never having heard of 'Trentlink' I would guess that there are many other boaters who are 'in the same boat' - I have assisted in more breakdowns and anchoring NBs than Trent lInk has recorded.

I bet they don't get a fraction of the actual incidents reported to them, and most folks just get themselves sorted and on their way.

 

Probably a bit like saying that the 25 active members on CWDF are representative of the 30,000 boaters.

 

 

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

Danforths are essentially useless, but this seems to be contradicted by the Trentlink blog.

 

Each NB  'attempted anchoring' I have assisted in has involved a Danforth which has slowed the boat but does no more than a bucket of concrete would do. The anchor is dragging and has failed to set.

 

I'd rather trust actual personal experiene in a subject than your 'book-learning'.

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1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

 

My suspicion is that even though many (most? all?) boats which occasionally venture out onto such rivers have them on board, actually deploying them in anger is an extremely rare occurrence.

 

I have been involved with anchoring and even had RYA training on the subject - on a yacht.

But I have not used an anchor on my own boat . I have owned  boats  based on the R Trent since 2008 .

Practicing anchoring is  something  the chief officer and I intend to do.

 

Are you thinking of not having an anchor on your boat?

 

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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Having been on the Trent for many years and never having heard of 'Trentlink' I would guess that there are many other boaters who are 'in the same boat' - I have assisted in more breakdowns and anchoring NBs than Trent lInk has recorded.

I bet they don't get a fraction of the actual incidents reported to them, and most folks just get themselves sorted and on their way.

 

Probably a bit like saying that the 25 active members on CWDF are representative of the 30,000 boaters.

 

Each NB  'attempted anchoring' I have assisted in has involved a Danforth which has slowed the boat but does no more than a bucket of concrete would do. The anchor is dragging and has failed to set.

 

I'd rather trust actual personal experiene in a subject than your 'book-learning'.

You just can't reduce the opportunity for a personal dig, can you?

 

This was nothing to do with "book-learning", it was to do with actual experiences of real boaters on real rivers.

 

Since the vast majority or narrowboats use Danforths, it's hardly surprising that they featured on most of your "incidents".

 

So in your 10 years, how many emergency-anchoring-of-narrowboat experiences did you have?

 

(and I also note that thanks to proper maintenance, you didn't have any such emergency -- that's not luck, that's preparation)

 

Let's say you saw one every couple of years, when you were spending most of your time on the Trent. That suggests the chances of a narrowboat only on the river for a few days suffering an emergency are absolutely tiny, otherwise you'd have seen far more incidents.

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1 hour ago, IanD said:

I know the subject of anchors is a contentious one and what is the best choice has been argued to death, but I have a different question...

 

For those boating regularly on the canal/river network -- meaning, including rivers which are commonly (but occasionally, for a particular boater) travelled on like the Trent and Ribble Link and Avon and Severn, but not tidal waters/estuaries or mooring up in them -- how many boaters on CWDF have ever had to actually deploy an anchor in an emergency on a river like these, for example due to loss of power?

 

My suspicion is that even though many (most? all?) boats which occasionally venture out onto such rivers have them on board, actually deploying them in anger is an extremely rare occurrence. Certainly on the hire boats I've been on which have had them onboard (because of possible routes onto rivers) there has never been any instruction or training about how to use them, which suggests that they're there as an insurance/box-ticking exercise not because they're ever expected to be used -- or indeed, useful, since a lot of them (small Danforths, short chain, short rope) would probably be about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

 

 I'll pre-empt Alan insisting that a high-performance anchor/chain/warp is *absolutely* essential because a narrowboat once went over a weir (or one saved him when moored off a lee shore in a gale...) by saying I'm looking for experiences of boaters who've had to deploy one themselves, and why, and where... 😉

 

 

The Ribble Link is very definitely Tidal - if you forget that then you'll be in trouble!

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11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Each NB  'attempted anchoring' I have assisted in has involved a Danforth which has slowed the boat but does no more than a bucket of concrete would do. The anchor is dragging and has failed to set.

The only time I've used our Danforth "in anger" was waiting for the tide to turn during a passage across The Wash. (We didn't beach, which is most common tactic, but stayed floating the whole time.) We had no problem. A shorter NB in the flotilla which had a collapsible grapnel anchor suffered dragging, and had to run their engine in ahead the whole time to hold station.

 

MP.

 

ETA. When we first started narrowboating, I would have retrieved the anchor from storage and set it up with chain and warp connected on any river; the Soar, Nene, Gt Ouse, Severn etc. These days I only have it ready under all circumstances on the Trent, Severn below Upper Lode, and the Salter's Lode to Denver tidal crossing. Summer river boating on canalised rivers, I wouldn;t bother.

 

 

Edited by MoominPapa
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7 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I have been involved with anchoring and even had RYA training on the subject - on a yacht.

But I have not used an anchor on my own boat . I have owned  boats  based on the R Trent since 2008 .

Practicing anchoring is  something  the chief officer and I intend to do.

 

Are you thinking of not having an anchor on your boat?

 

 

I'm just wondering how useful they actually are in real life in most UK rivers that narrowboats are ever likely to venture onto -- which might well exclude the lower Trent for most people -- and especially whether the "high-performance" option is worth it.

 

It's the difference between needing a reinforced hull on an icebreaker (or a seagoing yacht) versus an ocean liner (or a narrowboat) -- just because the Titanic hit an iceberg and sank doesn't mean it makes sense to iceproof all ships... 😉

3 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

The Ribble Link is very definitely Tidal - if you forget that then you'll be in trouble!

I'm very well aware of that 😉

 

But there's a big difference in risk between doing the Ribble Link once in 10 years compared to being on the lower Trent every day -- and even there, incidents are few and far between. Though Alan seems to have had more than his fair share... 😉

 

Which is why I was trying to find out how common it was for narrowboaters to have to deploy an anchor in an emergency, not argue with Alan yet again about what type of anchor is needed. However... <sigh>

Edited by IanD
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56 minutes ago, IanD said:

......

For those boating regularly on the canal/river network -- meaning, including rivers which are commonly (but occasionally, for a particular boater) travelled on like the Trent and Ribble Link and Avon and Severn, but not tidal waters/estuaries or mooring up in them -- how many boaters on CWDF have ever had to actually deploy an anchor in an emergency on a river like these, for example due to loss of power?

My suspicion is that even though many (most? all?) boats which occasionally venture out onto such rivers have them on board, actually deploying them in anger is an extremely rare occurrence. 

...........

 

 

I am sure you are correct in that emergency deployment of an anchor  is a diminishingly small occurrence, thank goodness. 

In my case I have been boating recreationally on inland waters for over 40 years and I have never had to deploy an anchor. I have also been sailing offshore off and on for about the same time and although I have anchored reasonably frequently over the years, never in an emergency situation.

 

However, in a professional capacity, I spent a good proportion of my seagoing career as Chief Officer and then Master of anchor handling supply vessels working in the offshore oil industry in many parts of the world and as such I can modestly claim a more than average knowledge of anchor handling techniques and anchor deployment in its many aspects, both controlled and in emergency situations, (albeit at a different scale). For example, the weights involved - 5 and 10 ton anchors were commonplace and sometimes we were working in   deep  water. I know the forum "experts" will try to say that this is a totally different game and has no relevance to inland waters, but I would respectfully disagree with them; seamanship is seamanship in whatever form it takes and is always relevant whatever the size of vessel involved.

  

For those who may be interested, there is a number of videos on YouTube under anchor handling offshore oil industry which are worth watching if this industry is new to some people.

 

Howard

 

 

 

 

Howard

 

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34 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Having been on the Trent for many years and never having heard of 'Trentlink' I would guess that there are many other boaters who are 'in the same boat' - I have assisted in more breakdowns and anchoring NBs than Trent lInk has recorded.

I bet they don't get a fraction of the actual incidents reported to them, and most folks just get themselves sorted and on their way.

 

Probably a bit like saying that the 25 active members on CWDF are representative of the 30,000 boaters.

 

 

 

Each NB  'attempted anchoring' I have assisted in has involved a Danforth which has slowed the boat but does no more than a bucket of concrete would do. The anchor is dragging and has failed to set.

 

I'd rather trust actual personal experiene in a subject than your 'book-learning'.

Having a commercial boatmasters licence for the Trent both Tidal and non Tidal for 250 passengers I can also say Ive never heard of " Trentlink " ?? 

We carried two anchors, a bruce and a Danforth on the two boats I skippered. Approx 60 and 110 tons ( the boats, not the anchors lol ). We deployed them at least monthly during training but never once in anger. However including on the boat I sold last year I had a substantial length of warp including a very heavy chain, classed as disposable and a one of use if needed. A good idea a friend of mine had was a 60 kg Danforth mounted on a wooden board on the roof of his narrowboat that could be tipped over the side if needed, no need to lift it. You did have to get on the roof to deploy it but that was no problem, it may well have ended up taking paint off but thats of zero consequence.

Edited by mrsmelly
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3 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I'm just wondering how useful they actually are in real life ............

If required in an emergency only - No use at all hopefully

A bit like lifejackets 

And  seat belts 

 

The non tidal Trent can get a bit lively if there is plenty of fresh on . I am sure there are other bits of the inland waterways where there are flows - eg River Soar and  River Aire  , and plenty of weirs .

There are loads of narrowboats using the Trent but only a relative few that are based on the river (or in the marinas).

 

 

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30 minutes ago, howardang said:

I am sure you are correct in that emergency deployment of an anchor  is a diminishingly small occurrence, thank goodness. 

In my case I have been boating recreationally on inland waters for over 40 years and I have never had to deploy an anchor. I have also been sailing offshore off and on for about the same time and although I have anchored reasonably frequently over the years, never in an emergency situation.

 

However, in a professional capacity, I spent a good proportion of my seagoing career as Chief Officer and then Master of anchor handling supply vessels working in the offshore oil industry in many parts of the world and as such I can modestly claim a more than average knowledge of anchor handling techniques and anchor deployment in its many aspects, both controlled and in emergency situations, (albeit at a different scale). For example, the weights involved - 5 and 10 ton anchors were commonplace and sometimes we were working in   deep  water. I know the forum "experts" will try to say that this is a totally different game and has no relevance to inland waters, but I would respectfully disagree with them; seamanship is seamanship in whatever form it takes and is always relevant whatever the size of vessel involved.

  

For those who may be interested, there is a number of videos on YouTube under anchor handling offshore oil industry which are worth watching if this industry is new to some people.

 

Howard

 

 

I don't think anyone would dispute your expertise in offshore oil matters, including 5 and 10 ton anchors 😉

 

But you always need to beware of extrapolating from one set of circumstances to a totally different one, especially where safety and risk are concerned. Formula One drivers wear fireproof suits and crash helmets and their cars have extreme (and extremely expensive) safety precautions to enable them to walk away from 200mph crashes, but I don't think anyone would suggest that these are appropriate for their granny driving a Nissan Micra to the shops... 😉

Edited by IanD
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3 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I don't think anyone would dispute your expertise in offshore oil matters, including 5 and 10 ton anchors 😉

 

But you always need to beware of extrapolating from one set of circumstances to a totally different one, especially where safety and risk are concerned. Formula One drivers wear fireproof suits and crash helmets and their cars have extreme safety precautions to enable them to walk away from 200mph crashes, but I don't think anyone would suggest that these are appropriate for their granny driving a Nissan Micra to the shops... 😉

What a total numpty.

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9 minutes ago, MartynG said:

If required in an emergency only - No use at all hopefully

A bit like lifejackets 

And  seat belts 

 

The non tidal Trent can get a bit lively if there is plenty of fresh on . I am sure there are other bits of the inland waterways where there are flows - eg River Soar and  River Aire  , and plenty of weirs .

There are loads of narrowboats using the Trent but only a relative few that are based on the river (or in the marinas).

 

 

I think you're making spurious comparisons here to try and make an argument...

 

Car crashes are very frequent -- many every day -- and seat belts have saved thousands of lives.

 

The same with boats sinking or people falling overboard every day, lifejackets have saved thousands of lives.

 

And anchors on narrowboats...?

 

I've been up the Trent after heavy rain when it was "a bit lively", as I'm sure many other people have, and it seems very few have ever had to do an emergency anchor deployment as a result. Which is what I'm trying to find out... 😉

Edited by IanD
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I did maybe six years on the Thames hire fleet and there was often a bit of flow early and late in the season.  As far as I can recall there was only one anchoring incident when a school party on two boats decided to go into Benson upper weir pool. Today the river would have been on yellow boards. One boat did suffer engine failure caused by a blocked cooling water inlet, so they deployed the anchor. For some reason I can't work out a pupil got the rope around his leg and got pitched into the river. He died, but the CQR anchor held. They were not very heavy CQRs, certainly lighter than the Danforth I had in the narrow boat.

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Have, over the twenty two years that I have been on the River Great Ouse system, fairly regularly deployed the anchor when a suitable bankside mooring has not been available or wanted to moor "stern on".  The only "emergency" I can recall was when there was no mooring space at "The Anchor" at Great Barford.  Had to anchor out of the navigation channel just down stream of the road bridge and use the tender in order to get to the bar!  It was fortunate that we (son-in-law, grandson and self) had thought to take the dinghy along.  

Given that the Great Ouse is fairly gentle it is no big deal to stop for lunch or to sit and watch a King fisher at it's nest or something else that warrants dallying a while.

Ciel is 36 ft and it's predecessor in the early years was a 25 ft Spirecraft.  The only test that the danforth has really had was when I joined a group of cruisers anchored for lunch in the weir pool at Brampton weir.  It must have held, motored up close to the weir, dropped the anchor and chain then paid (?) out the warp as I drifted back to the (GRP) river cruisers.  In that position the ground was scoured packed gravel.  No problem recovering either, motored slowly toward the anchor taking in the warp and chain and then holding position while lifting the anchor vertically.  Does require crew at the tiller who knows what they are doing.

Chris

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13 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I did maybe six years on the Thames hire fleet and there was often a bit of flow early and late in the season.  As far as I can recall there was only one anchoring incident when a school party on two boats decided to go into Benson upper weir pool. Today the river would have been on yellow boards. One boat did suffer engine failure caused by a blocked cooling water inlet, so they deployed the anchor. For some reason I can't work out a pupil got the rope around his leg and got pitched into the river. He died, but the CQR anchor held. They were not very heavy CQRs, certainly lighter than the Danforth I had in the narrow boat.

 

I assume these were GRP cruisers, so much lighter than a steel narrowboat?

 

Presumably they wouldn't have been out under those conditions today if yellow boards would have been out?

12 minutes ago, CIEL said:

Have, over the twenty two years that I have been on the River Great Ouse system, fairly regularly deployed the anchor when a suitable bankside mooring has not been available or wanted to moor "stern on".  The only "emergency" I can recall was when there was no mooring space at "The Anchor" at Great Barford.  Had to anchor out of the navigation channel just down stream of the road bridge and use the tender in order to get to the bar!  It was fortunate that we (son-in-law, grandson and self) had thought to take the dinghy along.  

Given that the Great Ouse is fairly gentle it is no big deal to stop for lunch or to sit and watch a King fisher at it's nest or something else that warrants dallying a while.

Ciel is 36 ft and it's predecessor in the early years was a 25 ft Spirecraft.  The only test that the danforth has really had was when I joined a group of cruisers anchored for lunch in the weir pool at Brampton weir.  It must have held, motored up close to the weir, dropped the anchor and chain then paid (?) out the warp as I drifted back to the (GRP) river cruisers.  In that position the ground was scoured packed gravel.  No problem recovering either, motored slowly toward the anchor taking in the warp and chain and then holding position while lifting the anchor vertically.  Does require crew at the tiller who knows what they are doing.

Chris

 

Needing to use an anchor regularly to moor on a river or in a tideway is a very different use case, this is when all the things Alan is concerned about like holding under a swinging tide matter. Using a tender to get to the bar isn't ever going to happen on a narrowboat... 😉

Edited by IanD
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Just now, IanD said:

 

I assume these were GRP cruisers, so much lighter than a steel narrowboat?

 

Presumably they wouldn't have been out under those conditions today if yellow boards would have been out?

 

I was a 35ft wooden cruiser built by a south coast builder, so not that light.

 

Whilst I was happy out on the river on yellow in Jenny B, I would hope hirers would not, but there were always odd things happening to school parties. Sometimes I wondered what those in charge had between their ears.

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54 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

When we first started narrowboating, I would have retrieved the anchor from storage and set it up with chain and warp connected on any river; the Soar, Nene, Gt Ouse, Severn etc. These days I only have it ready under all circumstances on the Trent, Severn below Upper Lode, and the Salter's Lode to Denver tidal crossing. Summer river boating on canalised rivers, I wouldn;t bother.

I'm on the Kennet at the moment and seriously considering shoving it back in the locker. 

 

FWIW I've stalled, bled the engine and restarted dozens of times over the long stretch between marinas on the lower reaches of the Nene without ever once considering deploying an anchor (the Trent would be a different story). On the other hand, I've tripped over the bloody thing on the bows a couple of times, and reckon on most UK rivers that's probably more of a risk than simply not having an anchor.

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