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C&RT Review of 'Facilities' provision


Alan de Enfield

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22 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

This could be seen as a prelude to reduced facilites due to 'we must manage our resources to give the best results'

 

 

Newark Castle from a bridge over the River Trent

 

 

 

Interestingly the photo is of Newark where the toilets were closed years ago due to abuse.

 

From a personal perspective in our local area.......

 

I would say all existing water points should be  maintained .

 

Other facilities such as showers are well overdue  for modernisation and some near us are not fit for use. I would go with fewer facilities providing those that remain are upgraded . 

 

C&RT should be fitting electricity bollards which would be well received but there is no mention of that . 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Dog said:

Yes, I think the tap at Barbridge was stopped because the nearby house owner discovered that it was coming from his property and, quite rightly, didn't like paying for boaters to use his water.

I believe the rubbish point was scrapped because of difficulty accessing the site over bridge 101(?)

 

I could, of course, be wrong.

There are a number in that same category - I first heard about the issue on the summit of the Rochdale.

 

While I am in this thread, I would like to propose that, whenever feasible, the actual water point should be the canal side of the towpath. Many were installed when the towpath was but a non-navigable jungle but now that many are cycle race tracks, having to trail hosepipes across is a potential problem. It certainly is with us as we use one of the expandable pipes and a cyclist wrote one off, just by going over fast with heavy duty tyres.

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3 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

There are a number in that same category - I first heard about the issue on the summit of the Rochdale.

 

While I am in this thread, I would like to propose that, whenever feasible, the actual water point should be the canal side of the towpath. Many were installed when the towpath was but a non-navigable jungle but now that many are cycle race tracks, having to trail hosepipes across is a potential problem. It certainly is with us as we use one of the expandable pipes and a cyclist wrote one off, just by going over fast with heavy duty tyres.

I suggest laying a couple of lines of bricks or chunks of wood with the hose between them. Maybe a folding custom made hose protector, like those "wet floor" hazard signs. It really doesn't need to have very, very sharp edges.

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14 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

There are a number in that same category - I first heard about the issue on the summit of the Rochdale.

 

While I am in this thread, I would like to propose that, whenever feasible, the actual water point should be the canal side of the towpath. Many were installed when the towpath was but a non-navigable jungle but now that many are cycle race tracks, having to trail hosepipes across is a potential problem. It certainly is with us as we use one of the expandable pipes and a cyclist wrote one off, just by going over fast with heavy duty tyres.

I use the boat hook to lift the hose and make a bridge. So far not had any aggro, but I also have a Calder  Hebble spike. 😁

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15 hours ago, MartynG said:

Interestingly the photo is of Newark where the toilets were closed years ago due to abuse.

 

From a personal perspective in our local area.......

 

I would say all existing water points should be  maintained .

 

Other facilities such as showers are well overdue  for modernisation and some near us are not fit for use. I would go with fewer facilities providing those that remain are upgraded . 

 

C&RT should be fitting electricity bollards which would be well received but there is no mention of that . 

 

 

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I think I'd love a charge point at every facility, obviously with a twelve hour stay, but it's not going to happen. 

I don't think a water point can generally be upgraded.

Keeping the existing elsan facilities maintained , clean and in good condition is all I require

 

Edited by LadyG
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On 23/09/2022 at 21:46, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I don't know, I can't think of one's that have been permanently closed (willing to be corrected). I thought the one at Fosse Wharf on the Grand Union (Bridge 32) was being closed due to difficulty of access for the septic tank, but passing through there recently it was still working perfectly. Have they actually shut any Elsan points down (is the disgusting one at Rugby still there?)

 

The one at Fosse wharf was closed for a couple of years then reopened once the access issue was sorted.

 

The one in the park at Rugby is still there, and on a recent trip rather less disgusting than the ones at Hawkesbury Junction and Sutton Wharf.

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11 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I suggest laying a couple of lines of bricks or chunks of wood with the hose between them. Maybe a folding custom made hose protector, like those "wet floor" hazard signs. It really doesn't need to have very, very sharp edges.

Or simply use a proper hose. 
A proper hose will loop across the path giving the cyclists something to consider. 

  • Happy 1
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Personally I would need/want to top water up every few (say 3?) days if I was a CC'er on a 2 person boat. Probably a bit less being a single person or a bit more if I was a family with children. But it's so variable. When I was on Albion I couod do a few weeks as I had a large stainless steel tank. On Halsall I filled up every day as I had a 4ltr container under the counter.

 

Elsan I could make last over a fortnight by pissing in the bushes when there was nobody around. I understand boats with ladies on need an Elsan point far more regularly. I've never had a pump out so can't comment, but pumped out plenty of boats in my time both fortnightly and monthly.

 

Do CRT currently publish any guidance on, or is there a widely accepted pattern/distance for CC'ers who wish to stay within the spirit of the legislation? If so, and by following that you'd pass more than enough facilities, then I'd suggest this survey will result in some closing. If it isn't enough, then things will probably stay the same.

 

Or CRT will just read the results to fit with whatever agenda they have here and close some facilities to save a few quid.

  • Happy 1
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4 minutes ago, junior said:

Or CRT will just read the results to fit with whatever agenda they have here and close some facilities to save a few quid.

This is probably their main objective. Should get volunteers to carry water and cassettes to the next services for you and return them to you. Now that sound like a plan 🤣🤣🤣🤣

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1 minute ago, Lady C said:

Some years (decades?) ago, a standard of six hours cruising between Elsan points was proposed.  This seems reasonable to me.  Also the IWA quite recently did a 'facilities gap' survey.  Perhaps CRT should talk to them.

 

 

I thought (tho could be wrong) that it was 8 hours cruising (basically one day) apart for water points rather than elsan disposal.

 

I guess if nothing was ever written down, everyone will have a different recall of what was discussed.

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2 minutes ago, Lady C said:

Some years (decades?) ago, a standard of six hours cruising between Elsan points was proposed.  This seems reasonable to me.  Also the IWA quite recently did a 'facilities gap' survey.  Perhaps CRT should talk to them.

 

But now a 30 minute cruise every two weeks is classed as CCing, surely we need Elsans every 1.5 miles. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Lady C said:

Some years (decades?) ago, a standard of six hours cruising between Elsan points was proposed.  This seems reasonable to me.  Also the IWA quite recently did a 'facilities gap' survey.  Perhaps CRT should talk to them.

Sound about right. You could have a cruise down to Brighouse to use the facility and charge your batteries at the same time. Even go to Market tavern.🤪🤪

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2 minutes ago, Lady C said:

Some years (decades?) ago, a standard of six hours cruising between Elsan points was proposed.  This seems reasonable to me.  Also the IWA quite recently did a 'facilities gap' survey.  Perhaps CRT should talk to them.

I independently reached about the same conclusion yesterday - that would put facilities within reach as a day trip from any point (there and back) even allowing for queues at locks and at the facilities, and the actual time it takes to sort out the Elsan.

 

I think there is a case to aim to provide water points both above and below substantial flights, particularly if there is also a winding hole. Whilst a cassette can be trailed up and down the flight, water can't, so it doesn't make a lot of sense for people to have to lock through a flight twice simply for water. Hypothetically, imagine water only being available at one end of Hatton for example.

 

Alec

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2 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

Sound about right. You could have a cruise down to Brighouse to use the facility and charge your batteries at the same time. Even go to Market tavern.🤪🤪

I think you’re confusing the ladies 😃

there be a lady G and a lady C. 
G’s a day away from Brighouse. 

  • Greenie 1
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21 minutes ago, junior said:

Personally I would need/want to top water up every few (say 3?) days if I was a CC'er on a 2 person boat. Probably a bit less being a single person or a bit more if I was a family with children.  

But if you stay in one place for 14 days you wont pass one every 3 or 4 days unless you moor close the waterpoint , fill up late evening and then sneak back to where you came from.

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26 minutes ago, junior said:

 Do CRT currently publish any guidance on, or is there a widely accepted pattern/distance for CC'ers who wish to stay within the spirit of the legislation? If so, and by following that you'd pass more than enough facilities, then I'd suggest this survey will result in some closing. If it isn't enough, then things will probably stay the same.

 

I think its 20 miles range per year so just a mile every other Saturday would cover it

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Top of my head calculations; water use is 20-40litres/person/day depending on showers, washing machine, cooking, washing up etc.  Liveaboard 360 days/yr, share/hire boats 180 days/yr, owners 15-90 days/yr.  5,000 liveaboards with 1.5pax, 2,000 share/hire boats with 6 pax, 30,000 owners with 2 pax.

 

Water tap delivers 10litres/min.  Day length for delivery is 6 hours day, so single tap can deliver 10*60*6*360 l/yr - 1.3Ml/yr.

 

Demand - 30*360*1.5*5000+30*180*6*2000+30*50*2*30000 - 300Ml/yr.

 

Thus we need about 200 taps across the network....  ie about one every 10miles.  However, this needs to be seen in the light of local boat densities -eg London with 100 miles of cut and about 2,000 liveaboards needs 25 taps just for them.

 

As ever, I suggest CRT are being weasel-worded.  I bet most of the water-points they're claiming to maintain are for the exclusive use of the local permanant moorers and not available for passing trade.

 

 

Edited by DaveP
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15 minutes ago, David Mack said:

If CRT currently have 65 Elsan points that equates to an average spacing of about 30 miles. That would suggest to me a need for more, not fewer, facilities.

 

But 30 miles is only 2 or at worst 3 days cruising and well within the 'range' of a single cassette.

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From CRT's website (https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/specialist-teams/maintaining-our-waterways/maintaining-our-facilities/water-points)

 

"Water points

Our canals and rivers are lined with thousands of water points. These supply a constant stream of clean and fresh water to boaters."

 

From the press release "We maintain over 600 water points..."

 

So, they've already ripped out/stopped maintaining at least 1,300 points...

 

 

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