Volockies at Grindley Brook

[nicknorman]

14 minutes ago, AndrewIC said:

Not yet - I’m not clear who to report it to?

It’s a good question, CRT don’t make it easy to complain. I’ve gone regional and used “enquiries.<region>@canalrivertrust.org.uk, for example  enquiries.southeast@canalrivertrust.org. But first you have to work out which region it is. In your case I think it’s walesandsw . Or you just phone them and ask. In the past I’ve emailed CRT’s head of volunteering Christine Mellor but she isn’t interested in complaints which tells you  why there is a problem.

 

By the way, I do sympathise. It’s bad enough dealing with rogue volockies when there are 2 of us, much worse if you are single handed.

Edited September 27, 2022 by nicknorman

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, AndrewIC said:

Not yet - I’m not clear who to report it to?

In the case of the volockie who clocked Nick with a windlass, it should surely be reported to the police.

[nicknorman]

33 minutes ago, David Mack said:

In the case of the volockie who clocked Nick with a windlass, it should surely be reported to the police.

I didn’t for 2 reasons, firstly there were no witnesses so his word against mine, and no visible wound. Secondly I probably provoked him a bit by “getting in his face” with a camera trying to take his picture whilst he was determined I wouldn’t. And thirdly to be fair I don’t think it was entirely intentional, more like a “swatting away a fly” sort of action whilst he obviously wasn’t looking in my direction (didn’t want me to get his face on camera. Ok 3 reasons. But obviously I reported it to CRT, the regional manager Adnan Saif (who has now departed CRT for some unrelated reason)

Edited September 27, 2022 by nicknorman

[ditchcrawler]

12 hours ago, AndrewIC said:

So the causes of my original exasperated post…

 

Week before last, Grindley Brook, going up. The volockies were quite definitely not there to assist, they were there to be In Charge, checked in with, and their instructions followed - the signs say so, so it must be true. Anyway, first rule of a leaky staircase is not to hang about, and the bottom gates at GB leak like a sieve, so on entering the bottom lock I gave SWMBO on the middle paddles the usual “straight up” hand signal. “Half a turn! Half a turn only!” shouted the volockie, and insisted the paddle was wound down almost all the way again.  

One of the ladies on Grindley Brook is new. She only wanted Diana to lift the bottom paddles going down like that. I think the problem is that is how THEY are told to do it so think its the correct way and no one puts them right. I like to get in a lock, get the boat in the right place and wind them up. Nearly all volockies will stop halfway, but most carry on when requested.

3 hours ago, nicknorman said:

It’s a good question, CRT don’t make it easy to complain. I’ve gone regional and used “enquiries.<region>@canalrivertrust.org.uk, for example  enquiries.southeast@canalrivertrust.org. But first you have to work out which region it is. In your case I think it’s walesandsw . Or you just phone them and ask. In the past I’ve emailed CRT’s head of volunteering Christine Mellor but she isn’t interested in complaints which tells you  why there is a problem.

 

By the way, I do sympathise. It’s bad enough dealing with rogue volockies when there are 2 of us, much worse if you are single handed.

How about using this Reporting an incident, accident or near miss | Canal & River Trust (canalrivertrust.org.uk)

[Mike Todd]

13 hours ago, nicknorman said:

sorry for not being clear but this was not one incident, this was several.

 

Hatton, Jeff got publicly shouted at (in front of a large group of gongoozlers) for opening a second bottom paddle when a boat was descending (we were waiting to go up). Apparently opening a second paddle is “very dangerous”. Or maybe that is only when going uphill! The volockie was fairly new and confused about going uphill vs downhill. Boater was quite happy with both bottom paddles, as one would be.

 

Wilmcote, boat coming up 2 locks away, turning the lock meant there would be no delay to the ascending boat and lots of water running through the bywashes, volockie shouting at me from the next lock, I ignored him, closed the bottom gates and only just got the top paddle open before he tried to reopen the bottom gate, then came up and shouted at me in my face. I told him he wasn’t in charge. He wasn’t wearing a name badge and refused to give his name. Needless to say we opened the bottom gates just as the ascending boat opened the top gates so no one was in any way delayed. Afterwards I attempted to take his photo to make a complaint but he wasn’t having it and lashed out with his windlass, fortunately only hitting me on the shoulder - it would have been my face if I was shorter.

 

Wigan, going up, entering some lock 1/2 way up in parallel with another boat as we’d done for all the previous lock, 5 yards to go volockie shouts STOP from above which caused the other guy to break off and general mayhem ensued. Just because the gate was a bit reluctant to close if it was fully opened, AND the idiot was standing between the balance beam and the edge. I expressed my displeasure and they sulked, then deliberately kept us waiting 20 mins in the top lock in the pouring rain (top gates were padlocked). Then abused me on their “Wigan Flight Crew” Facebook group and refused to allow me to join it to put my perspective.

 

Not

 

Leeds and Liverpool manned staircase (not the 5, just 3) volockie objecting to me operating any of the paddles and spent about 10 mins micromanaging the water level in the middle lock before he would open the top to middle paddles. He had already made us wait 15 mins in case another boat turned up before he would even let us into the lock. He had his unqualified and untrained nephew helping. When I started to get a bit irritated by the delays he threatened to padlock the flight and not let us through. Fortunately at that point the proper lockie turned up and sanity was restored.

 

Then were was the guy who started shouting at Jeff as to how to drive the boat entering an intermediate Foxton lock when the lower gate swung open just as I opened the paddle above, he wanted Jeff to put the boat in neutral which would have resulted in the surge of water (unreflected by the now open gate) ramming the back of the boat into the remaining closed gate. When Jeff complained about the back seat driving the volockie went off in a big sulk.

 

Probably some more I can’t think of, certainly many instances of back seat driving and pointless unwelcome “advice” and many, many instances of the volockie just presuming he is going to operate the lock, and doing so without asking.

 

Oh and there was the volockie at Sawley standing at the console on which there is a very large sign saying “boats must be roped” or words to that effect, opening the top paddles before I could get the stern rope attached.

 

And just stupid little irritations like bottom of Hillmorton, boat exiting 1/2 way out of the lock as we approach, volockie finds it necessary to wave frantically at us to indicate we should approach the empty lock that was just being vacated. Stating the bleeding obvious, as I would call it. And another occasion where the volockie told Jeff to tell me that I shouldn’t hover mid channel between middle and bottom lock because I might get blown into the offside. Admittedly he didn’t know I was a helicopter pilot and therefore quite good at hovering.

 

Of course we have had plenty of lovely, chatty friendly volockies, but the point is you don’t know what you are going to get until it happens, which is why we’ve now decided always to say “we prefer to work the locks ourselves,” on first contact.

 

 

Not only wrong on the obvious ground (ie the water has to be let out anyway) but could be wrong for less obvious reasons: before Poolstock went manned/booked only, there was a notice asking boaters to use both top paddles otherwise the leakage at the other end would mean the lock never making as level and the junction pound being drained yet again. In the case you describe, if the top gate leaks a lot then the use of only one bottom paddle to empty would mean much greater water consumption as the leakage in the extra time also has to be emptied away.

[Mike Todd]

13 hours ago, AndrewIC said:

So the causes of my original exasperated post…

 

Week before last, Grindley Brook, going up. The volockies were quite definitely not there to assist, they were there to be In Charge, checked in with, and their instructions followed - the signs say so, so it must be true. Anyway, first rule of a leaky staircase is not to hang about, and the bottom gates at GB leak like a sieve, so on entering the bottom lock I gave SWMBO on the middle paddles the usual “straight up” hand signal. “Half a turn! Half a turn only!” shouted the volockie, and insisted the paddle was wound down almost all the way again. And so it went on, the paddles being opened a crack at a time, so that by the time the first set of intermediate gates opened, the level was more than a foot below the markers and I was seriously concerned that we would get caught on the cill. Repeat procedure middle-to-top chamber, thankfully with less leakage. And one of the volockies remarked at the top, that they had to be really careful, because boats were getting stuck on the bottom… 🤦‍♂️

 

Last week, GB going down. Arrived at the top just as the last-of-three was had cleared the top chamber, and the staircase was to be reversed for boats to come up. We would then be next first-of-three going down after that. Volockie had cracked open one top paddle half way to refill the top chamber, so I wandered up and opened the other one. Ordered to “wind that paddle down, please!”. Pointed out that the top chamber had to be refilled, but no, “wind it down, sir, we’re regulating the water!”. Wound it down, gave up and went to make a cup of tea and admire the view while they faffed. 

 

And then Hurleston, last week, going down. Two volockies on. The first one refused to let me out of the top lock until she said so, deliberately holding one bottom gate closed against me. Now we’ve done probably thousands of locks over the years, but the idea of being stuck in the bottom of a narrow lock, usually with water pouring round/through/under the leaky top gate, still gives me the willies, and I like to get out of there, or know that I can, with some alacrity. Deliberately obstructing my exit for no good reason was in my book completely out of order. Further down, the other volockie was blithely lifting bottom paddles without waiting for a thumbs up: That really annoys me, and I’m always slightly wary of random boaters ready with windlasses poised when entering a lock, but this year almost all the other boaters we met at locks checked before winding, even the hirers, but not this volockie.

 

But anyway, otherwise pleasant trip up to Llangollen, and plenty of water

Not necessarily a bad idea, although the volunteer may not have known so: that pound is especially short, not much more than a boat length and boats passing need to be on the ball to synchronise their actions. Also the pounds drop in level very quickly and anything over shallow draft is likely to scrape the cill. If you come down out of the top lock you either have to try and hover in the small off side space or wait over the cill with the level dropping. I would rather be in a lock and discover the issue as I tentatively made my way out, with time to reverse if necessary, than find myself stuck with the stern stuck as the bow drops - the only wat then is to waste water running bit down from the top.

 

That said, I did have a minor issue with the 'instructions' issued by one volunteer on a set of wide locks. When I mentioned it I was told that they have a 'script' which they must follow - it is not simply an inexperienced volunteer making it up. They are not given the leeway to change it.

[Jerra]

6 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Not necessarily a bad idea, although the volunteer may not have known so: that pound is especially short, not much more than a boat length and boats passing need to be on the ball to synchronise their actions. Also the pounds drop in level very quickly and anything over shallow draft is likely to scrape the cill. If you come down out of the top lock you either have to try and hover in the small off side space or wait over the cill with the level dropping. I would rather be in a lock and discover the issue as I tentatively made my way out, with time to reverse if necessary, than find myself stuck with the stern stuck as the bow drops - the only wat then is to waste water running bit down from the top.

 

That said, I did have a minor issue with the 'instructions' issued by one volunteer on a set of wide locks. When I mentioned it I was told that they have a 'script' which they must follow - it is not simply an inexperienced volunteer making it up. They are not given the leeway to change it.

Oh good!  Presumably it starts by saying "Ask the boater if they need or want help".

[Mike Todd]

Just now, Jerra said:

Oh good!  Presumably it starts by saying "Ask the boater if they need or want help".

Actually, both up and down it was more a matter of "You are in luck, we will be doing the locks for you" - but we don't mind so long as they do it right!

[Stroudwater1]

21 hours ago, nicknorman said:

But obviously I reported it to CRT, the regional manager Adnan Saif (who has now departed CRT for some unrelated reason)

Someone who is likely to know (possibly rob_m?) seemed to  suggest AS hasn’t departed iirc? He is still on CaRTs site and linked in 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Someone who is likely to know (possibly rob_m?) seemed to  suggest AS hasn’t departed iirc? He is still on CaRTs site and linked in 

Regional directors | Canal & River Trust (canalrivertrust.org.uk) if its up to date

[Rob-M]

1 hour ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Someone who is likely to know (possibly rob_m?) seemed to  suggest AS hasn’t departed iirc? He is still on CaRTs site and linked in 

Yes, he hasn't departed but his role is temporarily being covered by Jon Horsfall.

[Rob-M]

Been up and down Grindley Brook over the last week, going up wasn't great as bottom gates leaking badly and volockies didn't get enough water in the lock to get me over the cill, they raised a paddle to let some more water in so I could cross the cill but then put the paddle down before I was fully over and I stopped on the cill again.  On the third attempt I told him to just leave the paddle up until I was in the lock.

 

Coming back down decided to go later, arrived at the top about 17:30 and no one around so went straight through and flushed myself from lock 2 to 3 as level in 3 drops quite quickly.

 

As we left the staircase a hire boat with a Swedish crew arrived, they were first time hirers and didn't know what a staircase was.  They looked blankly at the instruction board so I went back and helped them through, which they appreciated.  I guess they would have benefited from a volockie to help them through.

[Arthur Marshall]

25 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Been up and down Grindley Brook over the last week, going up wasn't great as bottom gates leaking badly and volockies didn't get enough water in the lock to get me over the cill, they raised a paddle to let some more water in so I could cross the cill but then put the paddle down before I was fully over and I stopped on the cill again.  On the third attempt I told him to just leave the paddle up until I was in the lock.

 

Coming back down decided to go later, arrived at the top about 17:30 and no one around so went straight through and flushed myself from lock 2 to 3 as level in 3 drops quite quickly.

 

As we left the staircase a hire boat with a Swedish crew arrived, they were first time hirers and didn't know what a staircase was.  They looked blankly at the instruction board so I went back and helped them through, which they appreciated.  I guess they would have benefited from a volockie to help them through.

There's been some aggro there a couple of weeks ago, boaters refusing to believe there's a 3x3 system and demanding to be let through and getting abusive and physically threatening. It's one place lockies are essential - there have been fights over queue jumping. It was better when there was a paid one but...

I got stuck on the cill going up too, presumably because they're trying to speed it up rather than wait till the chamber fills completely . But before the lockies arrived and got it organised , six boats had insisted on coming down while we were waiting to go up, again refusing to accept the convention. The lockie stopped the seventh from doing the same.

[doratheexplorer]

I usually try to do Grindley Brook early.  Especially at this time of year.  Set off at around 6am and it's somewhat quiet.

[Rob-M]

No need to go early today, we are moored at the bottom of the locks and so far only three boats have gone up and none come down.

[jeanb]

12 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It's one place lockies are essential

This.

 

We agree; just passed through twice recently (up+down) quite busy and queueing.