Volockies at Grindley Brook

[Cheshire cat]

We went through Grindley Brook in July. The guy who lives on his boat told us he is training the other guys. He is doing it for two more years at which point it is expected that C&RT will have a large enough pool of adequately trained volunteers and he will sail off in to the sunset.

[Alan de Enfield]

It should be remembered that the "Volunteer hours" is a KPI as part of the Defra grant (see page 64 in the annual accounts) and  a figure was used in the transfer documents to justify the savings from employment to volunteers with targets set.

These targets were audited by KPMG prior to the transfer to C&RT.

 

The figures for volunteer hours / days  2020 & 2021 are shown in the "Publication Data – required under the Defra Grant Agreement" section of the accounts (2020/21 figures are low due to Covid)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It should be remembered that the "Volunteer hours" is a KPI as part of the Defra grant (see page 64 in the annual accounts) and  a figure was used in the transfer documents to justify the savings from employment to volunteers with targets set.

These targets were audited by KPMG prior to the transfer to C&RT.

 

 

 

 

 

Does that include all the hours put in by WRG and other canal groups

[MtB]

4 hours ago, nicknorman said:

What about those boaters who did not want assistance, did they get the assistance anyway?

 

 

Any boater getting 'assistance' they didn't want is not getting 'assistance', they are getting interference. 

 

Part of the volly problem is the language we use. A volly 'helping' or 'assisting' is doing nothing of the sort unless invited. The correct word is 'interfering'. Vollies interfering  are playing with the locks for free, whilst we are the ones who paid to play with the locks and being denied what we are paid for.

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Does that include all the hours put in by WRG and other canal groups

 

I don't know, but would guess it includes any work done that is not paid for.

[ditchcrawler]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Any boater getting 'assistance' they didn't want is not getting 'assistance', they are getting interference. 

 

Part of the volly problem is the language we use. A volly 'helping' or 'assisting' is doing nothing of the sort unless invited. The correct word is 'interfering'. Vollies interfering  are playing with the locks for free, whilst we are the ones who paid to play with the locks and being denied what we are paid for.

 

 

 

I agree with you but we are in a minority. I have travelled in company with other boats, doble locks and the comments have included, "Good a volunteer I wont need to get off" and that wasn't a single hander. More often is "I hope there are volunteers" 

[nicknorman]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I agree with you but we are in a minority. I have travelled in company with other boats, doble locks and the comments have included, "Good a volunteer I wont need to get off" and that wasn't a single hander. More often is "I hope there are volunteers" 

Unfortunately you are right. But why do these people want to cruise the canals if they dislike working locks. I don’t understand.

[matty40s]

3 hours ago, Jerra said:

In my experience there are often Volockies in far more places than there ever were lock keepers and in places where they aren't needed.

We (Kath and I) went up Hatton the week before Jubilee along with a hire boat on the Sunday, as we passed the 'Welcome Hut' at 2.30pm, 2 cars drove off with blue sweatshirted human beans inside.

 

We came down Hatton on our own on the Saturday of Jubilee weekend,  weather was light drizzle and windy, passing the "Welcome Shed' with open doors at just after 12.30pm.

There were 3 cars there so didnt want to disturb their menage a twa... nobody even came out to look.

We caught up to a pair of private boats going slowly down at about 19, so just toddled along helping them by shutting their gates as they only had 6 crew. Moored above the Cape and went for a damn good dinner.

 

 

[Tuscan]

Volunteer lock keepers are of course not a free resource, they are just an unpaid resource. There are a whole raft of employed trainers and supervisors. Volunteers are entitled to claim travelling expenses with a team in the finance department no doubt sorting out. They are also I imagine  an important part of CRTs proposal for a renewed grant.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Tuscan

[nicknorman]

6 minutes ago, Tuscan said:

Volunteer lock keepers are of course not a free resource, they are just an unpaid resource. There are a whole raft of employed trainers and supervisors. Volunteers are entitled to claim travelling expenses with a team in the finance department no doubt sorting out. They are also I imagine  an important part of CRTs proposal for a renewed grant.

The thing is, some volunteers do really fantastic work. A chap in our marina spent a whole winter cutting back offside vegetation along the Cov and it made a massive difference. Unfortunately he then got “promoted” to interfering with locks. So IMO volunteers are great - except volunteer lock-fiddlers.

[Arthur Marshall]

30 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Any boater getting 'assistance' they didn't want is not getting 'assistance', they are getting interference. 

 

Part of the volly problem is the language we use. A volly 'helping' or 'assisting' is doing nothing of the sort unless invited. The correct word is 'interfering'. Vollies interfering  are playing with the locks for free, whilst we are the ones who paid to play with the locks and being denied what we are paid for.

 

 

 

They aren't really playing for free. They could well be doing something else with their time instead of agreeing to someone else's timeframe. I'm sure they feel they are providing a service, not just playing with toys. They also do stuff like clearing bywashes and maintenance too. 

[ditchcrawler]

11 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Unfortunately you are right. But why do these people want to cruise the canals if they dislike working locks. I don’t understand.

Like the ones who look for a week with very few locks

12 minutes ago, matty40s said:

We (Kath and I) went up Hatton the week before Jubilee along with a hire boat on the Sunday, as we passed the 'Welcome Hut' at 2.30pm, 2 cars drove off with blue sweatshirted human beans inside.

 

We came down Hatton on our own on the Saturday of Jubilee weekend,  weather was light drizzle and windy, passing the "Welcome Shed' with open doors at just after 12.30pm.

There were 3 cars there so didnt want to disturb their menage a twa... nobody even came out to look.

 

I once got talking to one of them, he couldn't help me with the lock as he wasn't trained, he was there to talk to walkers etc.

[Arthur Marshall]

15 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Unfortunately you are right. But why do these people want to cruise the canals if they dislike working locks. I don’t understand.

I like working locks, but I also have a bad back and a dodgy knee. I'm quite happy bumbling along at my own pace, but a lockie or offer of help from other boaters speeds things up and gives me a break.

I like pootling along canals, mooring up and watching the birds, enjoying the occasional quiet. Locks are a pretty minor part of the fun. If they are really the bit you enjoy most, maybe you should get rid of the boat and be a vlockie!

PS that was not a serious suggestion...

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

If they are really the bit you enjoy most, maybe you should get rid of the boat and be a vlockie!

PS that was not a serious suggestion...

Now thats an idea

[nicknorman]

4 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I like working locks, but I also have a bad back and a dodgy knee. I'm quite happy bumbling along at my own pace, but a lockie or offer of help from other boaters speeds things up and gives me a break.

I like pootling along canals, mooring up and watching the birds, enjoying the occasional quiet. Locks are a pretty minor part of the fun. If they are really the bit you enjoy most, maybe you should get rid of the boat and be a vlockie!

PS that was not a serious suggestion...

I get that some people are a bit infirm and find locks physically difficult, especially if they are single handed. But I think we are talking about able bodied multi-crewed boats who, for whatever reason, don’t really want to work locks themselves and would prefer someone else to do it.
 

Unfortunately it is a symptom of modern life. Maybe it is just laziness? Or more likely a subconscious fear of not really knowing what they are doing? A dislike of getting “down and dirty” with the real world, preferring to remain in some sort of urban aloofness to the real world? No doubt these same people will resent any other moving boats and shout “SLOW DOWN” when their badly moored boat lurches and rocks as an outrageously moving boat crawls past at 1.5mph. Putin is right, the human race really does need nuking.

[Arthur Marshall]

9 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I get that some people are a bit infirm and find locks physically difficult, especially if they are single handed. But I think we are talking about able bodied multi-crewed boats who, for whatever reason, don’t really want to work locks themselves and would prefer someone else to do it.
 

Unfortunately it is a symptom of modern life. Maybe it is just laziness? Or more likely a subconscious fear of not really knowing what they are doing? A dislike of getting “down and dirty” with the real world, preferring to remain in some sort of urban aloofness to the real world? No doubt these same people will resent any other moving boats and shout “SLOW DOWN” when their badly moored boat lurches and rocks as an outrageously moving boat crawls past at 1.5mph. Putin is right, the human race really does need nuking.

As vlockies are still few and far between and concentrated on the more accessible areas, most boats doing cruises are going to go many days without seeing one. And even then, they aren't on those locks every day. So everyone must end up doing most of the locks themselves.

I'm only occasionally infirm and, like you probably, find the big lock free stretches a bit dull. After all, most of the time working a lock you're sitting on the beam watching the water go up or down - it's not exactly strenuous unless you're on a long flight. When I can no longer shin up a ladder I'll give up boating, though I did have to haul up by my arms once when both knees packed in halfway up, culminating in my heaving myself onto the lockside horizontally and landing face down in the mud.

 

[enigmatic]

I'm tempted to do a big half serious rant about why would anyone cruise the canals if they didn't enjoy chatting with volockies, maybe it's a symptom of modern life or fear of interaction with strangers yada yada. After all, Grindley Brook had a lockkeeper* before all this modern rubbish for the lazy leisure boater like engines and electricity. 

 

But tbf, sometimes I don't like doing locks or interacting with volockies, and sometimes I like doing both  

 

 

*tbf, only one and he probably didn't completely forget about the boats coming up, but then he didn't have to deal with dozens of hirers either

[IanD]

44 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I like working locks, but I also have a bad back and a dodgy knee. I'm quite happy bumbling along at my own pace, but a lockie or offer of help from other boaters speeds things up and gives me a break.

I like pootling along canals, mooring up and watching the birds, enjoying the occasional quiet. Locks are a pretty minor part of the fun. If they are really the bit you enjoy most, maybe you should get rid of the boat and be a vlockie!

PS that was not a serious suggestion...

 

I love doing locks, especially with a crew who think the same i.e. my kids and their partners, and in that case I really don't want volockies taking our fun away.

 

But there are times -- like when I was doing all the heavy double locks going down to Leicester which were *really* hard work for one -- when help from a volocky would really have been appreciated.

 

Of course there weren't any around, it was raining... 😞

[Iain_S]

6 hours ago, nicknorman said:

What about those boaters who did not want assistance, did they get the assistance anyway?

If it was anything like the last time we went through Grindley Brook, probably not, apart from the assistance of having the boat ahead moving with reasonable efficiency. 

[Iain_S]

9 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Because there are no bywashes, the locks are left empty with bottom paddle open so that any surplus water runs over the top gates/round the paddles and through the bottom paddles. Without this, something causing an pverflow above lock 44 could result in quite a torrent by morning.

 

That's also why the process has to start at the bottom - I have seen a volunteer thinking they are being helpful and starting at the top...

 

 

I thought the K&A locks were designed so that water flowed over the top ground paddles, into the lock and then over the bottom gates, thus keeping as much water as possible uphill.  I guess subsequent maintenance/modification may have screwed this up, though! Running a possible 29 lockfulls of water downhill seems a bit of a waste

 

The Forth and Clyde also has no bywashes, apart from later additions on the top 4 locks on the east side (Which don't work very well). Locks are generally left full, apart from a few which are left empty for different reasons. The water flows over the top gates, fills the lock, then flows over the bottom gates. Not as good a system as on the K&A, as it can lead to gates being hard to open when there is a lot of water running down the flight. 

[rgreg]

I enjoy working locks and prefer to operate them myself. Where I think the volunteers add the most value is at the bottle-necks like Grindley Brook, helping to keep things moving smoothly and giving guidance to new boaters. I'd rather forfeit the opportunity to have sole operation of the occasional locks like these than be held up for hours of chaos. 

[magpie patrick]

8 hours ago, Iain_S said:

I thought the K&A locks were designed so that water flowed over the top ground paddles, into the lock and then over the bottom gates, thus keeping as much water as possible uphill.  I guess subsequent maintenance/modification may have screwed this up, though! Running a possible 29 lockfulls of water downhill seems a bit of a waste

 

The Forth and Clyde also has no bywashes, apart from later additions on the top 4 locks on the east side (Which don't work very well). Locks are generally left full, apart from a few which are left empty for different reasons. The water flows over the top gates, fills the lock, then flows over the bottom gates. Not as good a system as on the K&A, as it can lead to gates being hard to open when there is a lot of water running down the flight. 

 

That's how they are supposed to work, but in practice the lockside will flood - the top plank of the bottom gates is too high. They will cope with one or two lockfuls but not several, which might happen if a paddle is left up further up the flight - the overnight closure and draining only applies to the flight of 16, the ladder in the middle that marches up the hillside, so someone could come down as far as lock 44 of an evening and leave a paddle up at one of the upper locks.

 

This is only a problem with the unattended flight, hence the locks padlocked, empty and paddles open overnight on locks 28-44. Yes it would be a waste of water, but the system of emptying the locks overnight is intended to deal with an unintended and unexpected flow of water, not normal daytime use. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by magpie patrick

[Midnight]

This year I've been hampered by a sore knee ligament so the vollie who asked "Would I like help" going down Wilcote flight was most welcome. I've generally met decent lockies, the two at Bratch were brilliant and very friendly explaining how it all worked with the side ponds. The locky at Nether is an odd ball but hey-ho he doesn't do much except press buttons, ask a lot of questions and generally looks grumpy.

[Grassman]

10 hours ago, nicknorman said:

The thing is, some volunteers do really fantastic work. A chap in our marina spent a whole winter cutting back offside vegetation along the Cov and it made a massive difference. Unfortunately he then got “promoted” to interfering with locks. So IMO volunteers are great - except volunteer lock-fiddlers.

 

The chap you're talking about still does the offside vegetation every winter and then the Atherstone lock vollying in the summer. About 6 of the Fradley Lock keepers do the same. I'm part of his offside veg cutting team as well, and if I wasn't away in our boat most of every summer (so far this year I've done 570 miles and 350 locks) I'd love to become a lock vollie too.

 

This winter we are  doing the OV from Fradley towards Burton on Trent. We should have been doing Fradley to Great Haywood as it's 5 years since we last did it and there are some dreadful parts particularly the bends between Colwich Lock and Great Haywood, but CRT in their infinite wisdom have changed their boundaries and that stretch is now covered by CRT Stoke (which is barmy), so nothing is going to be done.

 

You probably all know that CRT are reactive instead of proactive and that they concentrate on places where there have been the most complaints, so whether it be OV or dredging,  I'm hoping they get quite a few complaints about that stretch.

[Jerra]

10 hours ago, enigmatic said:

I'm tempted to do a big half serious rant about why would anyone cruise the canals if they didn't enjoy chatting with volockies, maybe it's a symptom of modern life or fear of interaction with strangers yada yada. After all, Grindley Brook had a lockkeeper* before all this modern rubbish for the lazy leisure boater like engines and electricity. 

 

But tbf, sometimes I don't like doing locks or interacting with volockies, and sometimes I like doing both  

 

 

*tbf, only one and he probably didn't completely forget about the boats coming up, but then he didn't have to deal with dozens of hirers either

I quite enjoy chatting to volockies as they watch me working the lock.