Volockies at Grindley Brook

[magpie patrick]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

Why is it safer to leave the locks empty overnight? Presumably the gates are still closed. So anybody who falls in (probably in the dark) can't now get out anywhere along either side, but has to be able to find and swim to one of the ladders and then ascend the ladder several feet. 

And if it is 'safety critical' to leave these locks empty, why doesn't the same apply across the rest of the system?

Because there are no bywashes, the locks are left empty with bottom paddle open so that any surplus water runs over the top gates/round the paddles and through the bottom paddles. Without this, something causing an pverflow above lock 44 could result in quite a torrent by morning.

 

That's also why the process has to start at the bottom - I have seen a volunteer thinking they are being helpful and starting at the top...

 

 

[Hudds Lad]

There seems to be plenty of management and executive job funds available

 

https://uk.linkedin.com/jobs/canal-%26-river-trust-jobs?keywords=Canal+%26+River+Trust&location=United+Kingdom&locationId=&geoId=101165590&f_TPR=&f_C=2522806

[IanD]

13 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

There seems to be plenty of management and executive job funds available

 

https://uk.linkedin.com/jobs/canal-%26-river-trust-jobs?keywords=Canal+%26+River+Trust&location=United+Kingdom&locationId=&geoId=101165590&f_TPR=&f_C=2522806

 

And... ?

[David Mack]

20 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

There seems to be plenty of management and executive job funds available

 

https://uk.linkedin.com/jobs/canal-%26-river-trust-jobs?keywords=Canal+%26+River+Trust&location=United+Kingdom&locationId=&geoId=101165590&f_TPR=&f_C=2522806

https://careers-canalrivertrust.icims.com/jobs/search

[Hudds Lad]

35 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

And... ?

and they could spend £25k on a lockie instead of spaffing it on a Facebook advertising bod?

[magpie patrick]

In fairness*, heritage railways demonstrate that it is possible to have volunteers in safety critical jobs - I think driving a steam locomotive, even at 25mph, counts as "safety critical", but somehow CRT don't seem to have understood. I think a lot of this goes down to why they took on volunteers, which wasn't really about benefitting from the fruits of their labours. The top two priorities of CRT volunteering are (1) it makes CRT look good and (2) it makes the volunteer feel good - being useful is rather further down the list. Perhaps they should seperate out which tasks fall to which volunteers and looking after starircase locks should fall to an elite group who have shown they are up to it.

 

*I should add that many canal work parties involve volunteers in potentially dangerous or safety critical roles too. The more I think about it the problem is CRT management of volunteers....

[IanD]

15 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

and they could spend £25k on a lockie instead of spaffing it on a Facebook advertising bod?

You mean spend the money on 35000 boaters instead of publicising the canals to tens of millions of non-boaters? What a quaint idea... 😉

 

You seem to be objecting to CART employing anyone above the level of "boots on the ground". I hate to point this out, but like any company of any size CART wouldn't work without managers to organise everything (including maintenance and projects and HR and IT and...) and inform "the public" about what CART is doing, either via press or online. You might see these functions as parasites, but they're actually needed in the real world, which is why all companies have them.

 

And before you ask -- no I'm not a manager, I'm 100% technical, but I'm glad we do have managers to -- well, *manage* things like projects and people... 😉

Edited September 21, 2022 by IanD

[Midnight]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

............ yes you hate them, but the canals are not just for 35000 boaters no matter how much we'd like that to be the case,..............

But they don't need one blue sign for every cyclist, dog walker, rambler or jogger.

[Midnight]

10 minutes ago, IanD said:

You mean spend the money on 35000 boaters instead of publicising the canals to tens of millions of non-boaters? What a quaint idea... 😉

 

You seem to be objecting to CART employing anyone above the level of "boots on the ground". I hate to point this out, but like any company of any size CART wouldn't work without managers to organise everything (including maintenance and projects and HR and IT and...) and inform "the public" about what CART is doing, either via press or online. You might see these functions as parasites, but they're actually needed in the real world, which is why all companies have them.

 

And before you ask -- no I'm not a manager, I'm 100% technical, but I'm glad we do have managers to -- well, *manage* things... 😉

Why do they need to spend so much on publicising canals they've been there for 200 years or more. And while you're the Leading Defense Council for C&RT please can you say what the fook does a Full Stack Developer do?

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, Midnight said:

But they don't need one blue sign for every cyclist, dog walker, rambler or jogger.

 

Apart from being hyperbole, I agree that some of the blue signs are stupid ("you've now walked 250m on the Southall Trail..."), but the basic reason behind them is not, it's to "engage and inform" the general public -- or at least, to convince the government that this is being done...

 

Without this the government might well conclude that if a few boaters want to be prioritised instead of the general public, they can bloody well pay for the canals themselves -- for example, by removing the government grant (from the general public purse) and trebling the license fee (from boater's purses).

 

Be careful what you wish for... 😉

 

8 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Why do they need to spend so much on publicising canals they've been there for 200 years or more. And while you're the Leading Defense Council for C&RT please can you say what the fook does a Full Stack Developer do?

 

I'm not excusing CART, I'm just pointing out that a lot of the reasons they're slagged off just don't hold up with reality, even if they do in the imaginary "boaters come first" or "we don't need no steeenking managers" worlds that some people seem to live in... 😉

 

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Full+Stack+Developer

 

(third result in the list)

Edited September 21, 2022 by IanD

[ditchcrawler]

31 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Why do they need to spend so much on publicising canals they've been there for 200 years or more. And while you're the Leading Defense Council for C&RT please can you say what the fook does a Full Stack Developer do?

I had two young ladies say to me in Birmingham on the Perry Barr flight, what are they? referring to the lock the boat was in. Loads of people in Birmingham no nothing of canals and locks, even more don't think they are used any more. we went 2 days without seeing a boat.

[gatekrash]

13 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I had two young ladies say to me in Birmingham on the Perry Barr flight, what are they? referring to the lock the boat was in. Loads of people in Birmingham no nothing of canals and locks, even more don't think they are used any more. we went 2 days without seeing a boat.

Indeed. Someone asked us at Farmer's Bridge a couple of weeks ago 'Is that a boat ?' and when answered followed it up with 'is this like some sort of public transport system?' 🙄

[rgreg]

6 hours ago, IanD said:

When I went through they were helpful, the main "instructions" were for getting boats to follow the "five up five down" (IIRC) rule which is there for a good reason (to get as many boats as possible through at busy times), and helping boats through the staircase -- which many novice boaters need. If you're going up and don't check in you're out of sight below the staircase and they don't know you're there until they walk down. When I went through the staircase they didn't do anything I wouldn't have done anyway, and seemed to know what they were doing.

 

So based on my experience I see nothing wrong with that sign -- what's the objection?

When I went though last week the volockies were absolutely fine and doing an excellent job of marshalling and assisting boaters.

[nicknorman]

13 minutes ago, rgreg said:

When I went though last week the volockies were absolutely fine and doing an excellent job of marshalling and assisting boaters.

What about those boaters who did not want assistance, did they get the assistance anyway?

Edited September 21, 2022 by nicknorman

[Midnight]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

 

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Full+Stack+Developer

Thanks I just changed my profile

[jonathanA]

1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:

*I should add that many canal work parties involve volunteers in potentially dangerous or safety critical roles too. The more I think about it the problem is CRT management of volunteers

I think this is the crux of the issue. Managing volunteers is bloody hard work, even more so if the manager trying to manage volunteers is an employee. 

 

 If a volunteer doesn't do what crt want, what redress have they got ? What's to stop the volunteer turning up with his windless anyway.... very hard and I suspect crt haven't learnt that yet...

Edited September 21, 2022 by jonathanA
Sp

[rgreg]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

What about those boaters who did not want assistance, did they get the assistance anyway?

It's quite simple: you just say "I'm ok thanks", and get on with it. 

[Jerra]

5 hours ago, IanD said:

The reason CART got rid of the paid staff (and replaced them with volockies) was to save money, because their income was not enough to keep them on.

In my experience there are often Volockies in far more places than there ever were lock keepers and in places where they aren't needed.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, jonathanA said:

? What's to stop the volunteer turning up with his windless anyway.... very hard and I suspect crt haven't learnt that yet...

There are several around already, some good like the Wigan Crew others a bit doubtful whose help I would rather not have

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, Jerra said:

In my experience there are often Volockies in far more places than there ever were lock keepers and in places where they aren't needed.

That wasn't what was being discussed, it was that CART had got rid of paid lockies in tricky lock flights/staircases and replaced them with volockies to save money, at the cost of skill and experience.

 

The fact there there may be loads of volockies elsewhere where there used to be none doesn't change this.

[nicknorman]

26 minutes ago, rgreg said:

It's quite simple: you just say "I'm ok thanks", and get on with it. 

If only that actually worked (reliably).

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, Jerra said:

In my experience there are often Volockies in far more places than there ever were lock keepers and in places where they aren't needed.

Bit pointless like Atherstone with Volockies on the top 3 locks and nothing on the rest, or 1 at Hillmorton or Napton

[Jerra]

46 minutes ago, rgreg said:

It's quite simple: you just say "I'm ok thanks", and get on with it. 

That would be fine if they asked if you need assistance.  The last one who didn't ask me and I told him I wanted to do it myself got in quite a huff.

[IanD]

9 minutes ago, Jerra said:

That would be fine if they asked if you need assistance.  The last one who didn't ask me and I told him I wanted to do it myself got in quite a huff.

So he was a tw*t. They exist in all walks of life -- volockies, boaters, drivers, politicians...

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 hours ago, Midnight said:

But they don't need one blue sign for every cyclist, dog walker, rambler or jogger.

They felt the need to erect a massive sign for the services at Wolverhampton. 
Services I understand have been out of order for some time and will most likely remain out of order for some time to come. 
 

Maybe they should save money and time by not advertising what they’re not offering and just got on and make the service available. 😃