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Beta Marine engine id


Morris

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16 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

The best way to control charge current/voltage and prevent overheating (and protect the batteries) while allowing the fastest possible charging is -- of course! -- a properly configured external alternator controller with temperature sensing and low-rpm current pullback like the Wakespeed.

 

Of course this is also much *much* more expensive than Nick's idea... 😉


Yes. Well, doesn’t have to be very expensive, my controller comes in at under £50. Oh, plus many hundreds of hours development time!

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2 hours ago, nicknorman said:


Yes. Well, doesn’t have to be very expensive, my controller comes in at under £50. Oh, plus many hundreds of hours development time!

So, several grand at minimum wage then? Makes a Wakespeed look cheap... 😉

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22 minutes ago, IanD said:

So, several grand at minimum wage then? Makes a Wakespeed look cheap... 😉

Yea but I’m retired,  my time is free. If I hadn’t been doing that I’d have been down the pub getting pissed. Well ok maybe not, it was a lockdown project. Anyway, “several grand”? I wouldn’t get out of bed for less than £100 an hour!

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1 minute ago, nicknorman said:

Yea but I’m retired,  my time is free. If I hadn’t been doing that I’d have been down the pub getting pissed. Well ok maybe not, it was a lockdown project. Anyway, “several grand”? I wouldn’t get out of bed for less than £100 an hour!

£100 an hour? Cheapskate... 😉

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7 hours ago, IanD said:

After this was realised by Beta (in 2008? -- anyone know a definitive date or serial number?) they left the original splined power takeoff shaft (used in construction equipment to drive things like hydraulic pumps) in place, and AFAIK there have been no problems since then -- though obviously splined pulleys are needed rather than keyed ones.

😉

 

When I bought my 2007 build boat in 2014, it came with the splined power takeoff. 

 

My surveyor said the change took place in 2006.

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4 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

When I bought my 2007 build boat in 2014, it came with the splined power takeoff. 

 

My surveyor said the change took place in 2006.

 

So the OP's 2005 boat will have the keyed crankshaft, not the splined one -- except somebody beat him to it, so it's not his problem any more... 😞

 

Still OK so long as you don't have the second polyvee pulley with a big alternator or Travelpower...

Edited by IanD
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2 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

So the OP's 2005 boat will have the keyed crankshaft, not the splined one -- except somebody beat him to it, so it's not his problem any more... 😞

 

Still OK so long as you don't have the second polyvee pulley with a big alternator or Travelpower...

 

Which is what I said in the fifth post on this thread.

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3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Which is what I said in the fifth post on this thread.

But you missed out the crucial information which was the date of the switchover, so the OP still didn't know if the boat had a potential problem or not... 😉

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11 minutes ago, IanD said:

But you missed out the crucial information which was the date of the switchover, so the OP still didn't know if the boat had a potential problem or not... 😉

 

But Nick Norman in an earlier post had shown a photo of the splined takeoff so the OP could easily check the type of pulley drive fitted to.the boat he is interested in, do no need for a date.

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1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

But Nick Norman in an earlier post had shown a photo of the splined takeoff so the OP could easily check the type of pulley drive fitted to.the boat he is interested in, do no need for a date.

Not much use when he's not at the boat though... 😉

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I have a Beta 43 bought in 2003. Twelve years ago I changed the domestic alternator to a Pretalite 110, I have an Adverc fitted, charge the batteries at 900 revs and do everything else I shouldn't. Been doing that for 18 years and so far no woodruff key problems but after talking to Phil at Oxley I may disconnect the Adverc.

 

Edited to add - and after reading Tony Brook's post will charge the batteries at 1200 revs in future

 

 

Edited by Midnight
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36 minutes ago, Midnight said:

I have a Beta 43 bought in 2003. Twelve years ago I changed the domestic alternator to a Pretalite 110, I have an Adverc fitted, charge the batteries at 900 revs and do everything else I shouldn't. Been doing that for 18 years and so far no woodruff key problems but after talking to Phil at Oxley I may disconnect the Adverc.

 

Edited to add - and after reading Tony Brook's post will charge the batteries at 1200 revs in future

 

 

A single alternator -- or even two small ones on v-pulleys -- is much less likely to cause a problem than a big alternator (or two) and a Travelpower on polyvee belts, which load the engine much more heavily and overhang further from the keyed crank. It's also true that not every installation like this had problems, but enough did for Beta to change to the splined crank.

 

Higher charging revs (1200rpm or more) are better from all points of view -- faster charging (shorter engine run times ==> less fuel used and wear), cooler alternator, less risk of torsional vibration problems -- which is why Beta recommend it 🙂

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13 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

A single alternator -- or even two small ones on v-pulleys -- is much less likely to cause a problem than a big alternator (or two) and a Travelpower on polyvee belts, which load the engine much more heavily and overhang further from the keyed crank. It's also true that not every installation like this had problems, but enough did for Beta to change to the splined crank.

 

Higher charging revs (1200rpm or more) are better from all points of view -- faster charging (shorter engine run times ==> less fuel used and wear), cooler alternator, less risk of torsional vibration problems -- which is why Beta recommend it 🙂

Id have to disagree with the faster charging point. A modern Beta 43 can produce more charge current than your average lead acid battery installation wants to take, even at idle. Higher rpm = more frictional losses = more fuel consumption. But the rest is correct of course.

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13 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Id have to disagree with the faster charging point. A modern Beta 43 can produce more charge current than your average lead acid battery installation wants to take, even at idle. Higher rpm = more frictional losses = more fuel consumption. But the rest is correct of course.

Agreed for LA batteries, especially small ones. LFP are a different kettle of fish entirely, and were being discussed.

 

Alternator current increases with rpm up to some point where it flattens off, this depends on the alternator -- how long this can be sustained for without overheating is a different matter. Beta use a 2.8:1 pulley ratio so an 850rpm idle means 2400rpm, which is likely to be below maximum alternator current.

 

Engine efficiency generally increases with rpm and load up to the maximum torque rpm, so the fraction of the fuel energy that ends up in the batteries does too -- but at a given power level (alternator load) lower rpm is indeed better.

 

iskra24v.PNG

efficiency.jpg

Edited by IanD
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6 hours ago, IanD said:

Agreed for LA batteries, especially small ones. LFP are a different kettle of fish entirely, and were being discussed.

 

Alternator current increases with rpm up to some point where it flattens off, this depends on the alternator -- how long this can be sustained for without overheating is a different matter. Beta use a 2.8:1 pulley ratio so an 850rpm idle means 2400rpm, which is likely to be below maximum alternator current.

 

Engine efficiency generally increases with rpm and load up to the maximum torque rpm, so the fraction of the fuel energy that ends up in the batteries does too -- but at a given power level (alternator load) lower rpm is indeed better.

 

iskra24v.PNG

efficiency.jpg

FFS!

The only thing that concerned me for the past 18 years is that the batteries are charged when I moor up for the night.

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20 minutes ago, Midnight said:

FFS!

The only thing that concerned me for the past 18 years is that the batteries are charged when I moor up for the night.

You can ignore the graphs then -- blame Nick for kicking this diversion off... 😉

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5 minutes ago, nicknorman said:


If contentious is the same as discrediting the odd old wives tale / mantra that does the rounds here, then I’m guilty. But proud.

Old wives tales *need* discrediting, there are far too many around 😉

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59 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Have you ever considered Thunderboat? 🤣🤣🤣

 

 

 

They wouldn't hold back they'd tell him exactly what they thought of him - he gets all defensive on here when 'questioned' ............................. He wouldn't last a day on TB.

 

I keep thinking of this :

 

 

Offended Opinion.jpg

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

They wouldn't hold back they'd tell him exactly what they thought of him - he gets all defensive on here when 'questioned' ............................. He wouldn't last a day on TB.

 

I keep thinking of this :

 

 

Offended Opinion.jpg

I don't get all defensive when I'm backed up by facts -- but I hate blustering BSers who aren't, and try to wriggle away and avoid answering questions when they realise they've been rumbled... 😉

 

And I note that as usual you just *can't* resist the temptation for a snide personal dig -- but hey, play the man if you can't play the ball, eh?

 

I looked in on Thunderboat once, and frankly I'd rather swim through sewage -- or off UK beach after heavy rain, which is pretty much the same thing...

Edited by IanD
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On 20/09/2022 at 15:26, Morris said:

Hi all,

I am looking to purchase my first narrowboat and am interested in a 2005 boat fitted with a Beta Marine engine. 

 

My understanding so far from reading on here is that there were issues with the 43hp engine (corrected in 2006?) as a result of the crankshaft pulley being fitted with a woodruff key which can wear due to vibrations/oscillations when charging batteries with the engine at low revs. I do not like the sound of the potential for catastrophic failure and the need for a new crankshaft!

 

Can anyone advise on how to identify the engines that should be avoided please?

 

Also is this only an issue on the 43hp engine?

 When I checked I bought my Beta 43 in 2002 but it looks to me like the upgraded version of the shaft

 

pulley.jpg

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7 hours ago, Midnight said:

 When I checked I bought my Beta 43 in 2002 but it looks to me like the upgraded version of the shaft

 

 

 

 

I'm sure I read on here about there being 'short' engines that had the splined end cut off, but that this wasn't necessarily the case for all of them. My understanding is that, as Chevron has said, engines like yours have the woodruff key arrangement but have the splined shaft intact and the point of the kit in his pic is to convert the pulley so that the splines take the load.  

 

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