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Stove Airflow and other questions


DShK

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14 minutes ago, Bee said:

Hard to tell. The top pipe ought to rise all the way to the farthest point then turn and fall all the way to the bottom. If the stove is in the front of the boat and the boat sits down at the back you will struggle to get a rise at all unless the pipe goes up across the windows and the rads are hanging off the cabin sides. It is a simple theory and very effective but it can be difficult to achieve. On my last narrowboat I cut a hole in the floor to lower the stove to get that vital couple of inches of rise. You may very well find some sort of circulating pump is your best bet.

 

I will consider a pump, thanks. It's actually silent now so perhaps the door being open was boiling it?

 

9 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I would say, load it up (I think you have). When it is going sufficiently well close the bottom vent all but one turn and see if its still going in the morning 

I have loaded up more than I usually do. I will give this a go. My mum said that when she would bank up our open fire, she would cover it in ash to insulate it. Is this a thing with stoves? Should I do this in this case?

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Don't install a pump unless you really need to. 

 

Speak to the previous owner if you can, see if he needed one. 

2 minutes ago, DShK said:

 

I will consider a pump, thanks. It's actually silent now so perhaps the door being open was boiling it?

 

I have loaded up more than I usually do. I will give this a go. My mum said that when she would bank up our open fire, she would cover it in ash to insulate it. Is this a thing with stoves? Should I do this in this case?

You only need to cover it in Ash if it's really windy. Usually not required as controllable with bottom air vent. Open fires are not as controllable, hence the ash trick 

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3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Don't install a pump unless you really need to. 

 

Speak to the previous owner if you can, see if he needed one. 

You only need to cover it in Ash if it's really windy. Usually not required as controllable with bottom air vent. Open fires are not as controllable, hence the ash trick 

They fitted the boat out from new and lived on it for 12 years, so I imagine what I got when I bought it, worked for them! I don't know if the trim of the boat has changed a lot though - you could see where the boat had risen in the water several inches after they removed their stuff!

 

Good to know about the ash, thanks. Thanks for the help, I will see how it goes tonight.

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1 hour ago, DShK said:

 

The pipes just enter the back of the stove, so I don't really see where the "top" is - guess I don't understand the anatomy of the boiler? The header tank has a decent amount of water in it if that's what you mean. I've never bled a radiator before but I'll give it a go, thanks!

 

 

 Been answered and I might get shouted at again if I leave my reply

Edited by ditchcrawler
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4 minutes ago, DShK said:

One thing I'm noticing with the vent open one turn - there's a lot more smoke coming from my chimney - I thought this was "smokeless" fuel? Is that normal?

You loaded it up with fuel. Until it is going, it will produce smoke. 

 

What you burning? 

Also, is it dry? 

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13 hours ago, rusty69 said:

You loaded it up with fuel. Until it is going, it will produce smoke. 

 

What you burning? 

Also, is it dry? 

That makes sense. Sorry for asking lots of simple questions, I just want to understand and give due respect to the fire in my home!

 

The backboiler cleaning was right on point, it was COVERED in ash and crud. Not a pleasant job to deal with! Good job done though.

 

I've attached a picture of the coals 8 hours after it was banked up - hard to get a good photo but it had hot coals, I didn't see if I could coerce it into going again as I wanted to clean the backboiler. Second photo is the stove today with the vent fully open, wondering if that is as expected.

 

I am starting to think my expectations/thought process was incorrect with the stove? It seems to me I was expecting a "lively" fire like the open fires I was raised around. Is it perhaps that I need to get a thermal mass of quite a lot of hot coals that just sit and radiate heat? If that is the case, perhaps (being thrown off by this bluespot thing?) I have been pushing it too far and the backboiler has been getting too hot? It seems to be making very little noise now.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, MtB said:

Second photo looks like it is burning quite fast and after an hour or so like this, the stove itself will be getting pretty hot and heating the boat very effectively.

 

I'm puzzled by you repeated mentions of a "blue spot". What is it? 

Think it is a stove thermometer. I have one at home on a Arrow Stratford.  I would not like to see the fire when on optimum burn rate as the fire clonks  like he'll.

Edited by Tonka
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14 hours ago, rusty69 said:

You loaded it up with fuel. Until it is going, it will produce smoke. 

 

What you burning? 

Also, is it dry? 

 

Forgot to mention - excel. Some of the coals were wet, spilled some water on the bag earlier.

 

17 minutes ago, MtB said:

Second photo looks like it is burning quite fast and after an hour or so like this, the stove itself will be getting pretty hot and heating the boat very effectively.

 

I'm puzzled by you repeated mentions of a "blue spot". What is it? 

 

Okay, if that looks to be expected, then it sounds like my conclusion with regards to expectations was correct. There's not doubt I'm warm, but it's not that cold (I do have the hatches open though) just trying to make sure I have this down before it gets proper chilly!

 

Yeah as Tonka mentioned, its a thermometer- 

 

"The Blue Spot Tools Stove Pipe Thermometer monitors flue pipe heat to give an accurate reading on the temperature of the stove. Features a thermal expansion coil on the rear that expands and indicates on the front of the thermometer gauge when to reload your stove to keep it efficient; too low and creosote is building up in your stove pipe and too high and you are losing energy from the stove. Specifically designed to be used with wood-burning stoves. Designed to help save energy wastage and avoid costly flue pipe repairs due to creosote and soot build-up."

 

Sounds like the ranges are for burning wood, but still seemed like it would give a good idea of the relative temp of the stove.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, DShK said:

 

Forgot to mention - excel. Some of the coals were wet, spilled some water on the bag earlier.

 

 

Okay, if that looks to be expected, then it sounds like my conclusion with regards to expectations was correct. There's not doubt I'm warm, but it's not that cold (I do have the hatches open though) just trying to make sure I have this down before it gets proper chilly!

 

Yeah as Tonka mentioned, its a thermometer- 

 

"The Blue Spot Tools Stove Pipe Thermometer monitors flue pipe heat to give an accurate reading on the temperature of the stove. Features a thermal expansion coil on the rear that expands and indicates on the front of the thermometer gauge when to reload your stove to keep it efficient; too low and creosote is building up in your stove pipe and too high and you are losing energy from the stove. Specifically designed to be used with wood-burning stoves. Designed to help save energy wastage and avoid costly flue pipe repairs due to creosote and soot build-up."

 

Sounds like the ranges are for burning wood, but still seemed like it would give a good idea of the relative temp of the stove.

 

 

Yes, i don't think you can compare it to a roaring open fire. You just need to learn how to drive it. It doesn't take long.

 

For us. I load it once in a 24 hour period, usually at 8pm. One load will last us 24 hours. When one load has burned down so there is little in the stove, I use a poker with the door open to 'riddle the grate', and then flatten the ash in the pan. If the pan isn't too full, I leave emptying it until the morning.

 

Different smokeless will produce different amounts of Ash. I have two pans, so alternate them, but expect to empty once a day.

 

I have both fire bars in place, and fully load the stove using a square shaped coal bucket,which I find easier than the curved ones. The embers are enough to get the fresh coal going, so bottom door open for a minute or so (not recommended by morso) and then bottom vent full open for 20 minutes or so. It is then fully shut down, and opened up by upto one turn, depending on the wind. It will then go for up to 12 hours like this before being opened up for a while in the morning, and then shut down again.

 

You may get away with leaving it all day without opening it up, depending on the size of your boat/insulation /how warm you like it etc.

 

We always leave the top vent closed unless burning wood. I gave up trying to keep the glass clean many years ago. I expect for you, it will be nice to see the flame. Dipping newspaper in the ash pan is one method of glass cleaning.

 

25 kg of smokeless generally lasts us 3 days. 

 

Good luck. 

Edited by rusty69
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5 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Yes, i don't think you can compare it to a roaring open fire. You just need to learn how to drive it. It doesn't take long.

For us. I load it once in a 24 hour period, usually at 8pm. One load will last us 24 hours. When one load has burned down so there is little in the stove, I use a poker with the door open to 'riddle the grate', and then flatten the ash in the pan. If the pan isn't too full, I leave emptying it until the morning. Different smokeless will produce different amounts of Ash. I have two pans, so alternate them, but expect to empty once a day.

I have both fire bars in place, and fully load the stove using a square shaped coal bucket,which I find easier than the curved ones. The embers are enough to get the fresh coal going, so bottom door open for a minute or so (not recommended by morso) and then bottom vent full open for 20 minutes or so. It is then fully shut down, and opened up by upto one turn, depending on the wind. It will then go for up to 12 hours like this before being opened up for a while in the morning, and then shut down again.

You may get away with leaving it all day without opening it up, depending on the size of your boat/insulation /how warm you like it etc.

We always leave the top vent closed unless burning wood. I gave up trying to keep the glass clean many years ago. I expect for you, it will be nice to see the flame. Dipping newspaper in the ash pan is one method of glass cleaning.

25 kg of smokeless generally lasts us 3 days. 

Good luck. 

 

That's really great info, thank you so much for the help!

 

As a side effect of changing my expectations - the back boiler is silent now. I think Just leaving the door open was overheating it and it was boiling. Both problems solved!

 

Thanks everyone for the insight and your time. Maybe there should be a "stove primer" thread like there is for batteries!

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5 minutes ago, DShK said:

 

That's really great info, thank you so much for the help!

 

As a side effect of changing my expectations - the back boiler is silent now. I think Just leaving the door open was overheating it and it was boiling. Both problems solved!

 

Thanks everyone for the insight and your time. Maybe there should be a "stove primer" thread like there is for batteries!

You'll be an expert by the end of the week. Maybe you should write one. 

 

I suspect you were just overheating it. Later squirrels had a device for preventing you opening the bottom door unless refuelling, and also they limited the amount the bottom air vent could be opened compared to older stoves. 

 

I suspect they did this to prevent people overheating a cold stove and cracking the collar or the top plate. Which is quite easy to do if it's heated up from cold too quickly. 

Edited by rusty69
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