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Stove Airflow and other questions


DShK

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Now that the weather is turning chillier, I am using my stove (Morso Squirrel) properly for the first time. It's generally going okay! I had a few questions that I can't seem to find the answers to, if anyone would be so kind as to help me out...

 

I find that the only way I can get the temps to a decent level is to open the lower door. Closing it with the airvent fully open dampens the fire down a lot. If I want some decent heat from the fire I have to constantly open and close the door. I have cleaned the stove out (there was a lot of ash around the ash tray). I'm assuming this is perhaps down to something I'm doing wrong?

 

I have a backboiler. Is it supposed to make noise? Mine gurgles a decent amount. I'm expecting this is normal, I just wanted to make sure it's not a symptom of air that shouldn't be in the system or something.

 

Any general stove tips and tricks you can offer a noobie boater?

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

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If burning smokeless, a squirrel should go nicely with the bottom vent opened no more that one turn. 

 

If burning wood. Keep the bottom vent closed and open the top vent open to suit. 

 

A quick blast by opening the bottom door to get it going may be required, but not regularly. 

 

Keep the ash pan level below the bottom of the grate so you don't choke it. 

Edited by rusty69
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Loading a squirrel fully with smokeless and leaving only the bottom vent open no more than one turn should allow it to run for more than 24 hours.

 

You may find you need to adjust the air intake depending on the strength of the wind. The stronger the wind, the less air it will require. 

 

Clean the flue and the top of the boiler at least once every couple months. 

 

Ours runs 24/7 from. Oct to march

 

 

Edited by rusty69
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13 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Clean the crap off the top of the back boiler, clean the flue. Check the water level is correct. Bleed the rads 

 

^^^This^^^

 

The top face of the back boiler is a flat horizontal surface directly under the flue connection. All manner of rust and clag falls down the flue and collects on this flat surface, progressively reducing the gap for flue flow up the chimney, and giving exactly the symptoms the OP describes. When I first discovered this with my own Squirrel and cleaned it off, the change in behaviour of the stove was like night and day.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Clean the crap off the top of the back boiler, clean the flue. Check the water level is correct. Bleed the rads 

 

The pipes just enter the back of the stove, so I don't really see where the "top" is - guess I don't understand the anatomy of the boiler? The header tank has a decent amount of water in it if that's what you mean. I've never bled a radiator before but I'll give it a go, thanks!

 

9 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I have no experience of back boilers. 

 

Does the door seal properly?

And is the window glass sealed properly ?

But especially important have you swept and cleaned the chimney/flue?



 


 

 

I believe the door seals correctly (although the fire resistant rope on the bottom door has come away a bit, I poked it back in - perhaps it needs replacing). Glass looks okay to me too, I'll include a picture. I had a safety cert done with the survey so I would hope any stove concerns would have been highlighted.

 

I swept the chimney flue when I got the boat - think I did an okay job. I lost the brush to the canal so I need to get a new one!

 

 

6 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

If burning smokeless, a squirrel should go nicely with the bottom vent opened no more that one turn. 

 

If burning wood. Keep the bottom vent closed and open the top vent open to suit. 

 

A quick blast by opening the bottom door to get it going may be required, but not regularly. 

 

Keep the ash pan level below the bottom of the grate so you don't choke it. 

 

Burning smokeless. I open the top vent too as my understanding is this is an air wash to keep the glass clean. Which was definitely sooting up without it. With the bottom door open it's sitting at 150C on the flue (bluespot thing). Not sure about the ash pan, I'll include a photo.

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Wait till the stove is cool. Open the main door. The back boiler is accessed from within. Put your hand over it and pull the crap out after sweeping the flue with the door shut. 

 

Don't get your hand stuck. It's a tight fit 

Edited by rusty69
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5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

^^^This^^^

 

The top face of the back boiler is a flat horizontal surface directly under the flue connection. All manner of rust and clag falls down the flue and collects on this flat surface, progressively reducing the gap for flue flow up the chimney, and giving exactly the symptoms the OP describes. When I first discovered this with my own Squirrel and cleaned it off, the change in behaviour of the stove was like night and day.

 

 

 

Okay great, I'll give this a go then, thanks!

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Looks like you haven't much fuel in there. 

 

Fine if you want clean glass but it is very over rated. 

 

Never clean our glass, and leave top vent closed unless burning wood. 

 

Good luck if it's your first winter aboard. 

Edited by rusty69
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39 minutes ago, DShK said:

I have a backboiler. Is it supposed to make noise? Mine gurgles a decent amount. I'm expecting this is normal, I just wanted to make sure it's not a symptom of air that shouldn't be in the system or something.

Every thing else that has been said about clearing the clag that collects between the top of the back boiler and flue so far is good.

Something that no one has covered, the back boiler gurgles. This isn't normal. Does your heating system have a pump in it that should be switched on? The ideal circulation is gravity, with no pump, but some systems need a pump to work properly. Are you aware of any pump? Follow the pipes round from the top of the boiler, all the way back to the bottom of the boiler to be sure.

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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10 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Looks like you haven't much fuel in there. 

 

Fine if you want clean glass but it is very over rated. 

 

Never clean our glass, and leave top vent closed unless burning wood. 

 

Good luck if it's your first winter aboard. 

I usually have a bit more in there, but perhaps I do need to load it up a bit more generally

 

9 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Every thing else that has been said about clearing the clag that collects between the top of the back boiler and flue so far is good.

Something that no one has covered, the back boiler gurgles. This isn't normal. Does your heating system have a pump in it that should be switched on? The ideal circulation is gravity, with no pump, but some systems need a pump to work properly. Are you aware of any pump? Follow the pipes round from the top of the boiler, all the way back to the bottom of the boiler to be sure.

No pump as far as I'm aware. I had a handover with the previous owner, and he didn't mention one. I've seen the length of the pipes and I've not seen one. Unless it's hidden right behind the calorifier. I'm fairly sure it's gravity circulated. I have to isolate the calorifier once the stove is cold or I lose my hot water to the rads. I get hot water and the rads heat up fine.

 

Mostly when it's up to temp it ticks and a sort of wooshing sound. It gurgles mostly when it's at a lower temp I think.

Edited by DShK
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Another thing is how long are you waiting? That photo with it glowing red ought to have the temp inside the boat well up on the 30C  range after a couple of hours. My own Squirrel would keep the boat toasty warm with just a deep red glow but the whole stove takes a couple of hours or more to warm up properly once lit. 

 

If my stove was glowing orange like that I'd bank it up nice and high with more coal and fully close off the bottom air vent then open it about one full turn. Then it would keep the boat comfortably warm and need no more attention for about 24 hours. 

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15 minutes ago, MtB said:

Another thing is how long are you waiting? That photo with it glowing red ought to have the temp inside the boat well up on the 30C  range after a couple of hours. My own Squirrel would keep the boat toasty warm with just a deep red glow but the whole stove takes a couple of hours or more to warm up properly once lit. 

 

If my stove was glowing orange like that I'd bank it up nice and high with more coal and fully close off the bottom air vent then open it about one full turn. Then it would keep the boat comfortably warm and need no more attention for about 24 hours. 

It's been a few hours, but I have the hatches and doors open because I like the warm/cold air combo. It was less of a question of the temp of the boat but more control over how vigorous the stove seems to be burning. But I thought there might be a bit of technique problem, I will try loading the coals up when its hot and closing it down and see how it goes. I suspect the backboiler thing might be at play too.

 

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

 

Not sure I understand? The previous owner fit the boat out himself. I don't know what plate might have been removed?

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2 minutes ago, DShK said:

It's been a few hours, but I have the hatches and doors open because I like the warm/cold air combo. It was less of a question of the temp of the boat but more control over how vigorous the stove seems to be burning. But I thought there might be a bit of technique problem, I will try loading the coals up when its hot and closing it down and see how it goes. I suspect the backboiler thing might be at play too.

 

Not sure I understand? The previous owner fit the boat out himself. I don't know what plate might have been removed?

Apparently the later Squirrel stoves come with 2 plates installed above the door. One of which is removed when installing in a boat. Apparently both are left in when installed in a house. If you do a search on here you will find out more hopefully

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What Jen says is correct. It should be silent. The whooshing sound is probably because of bad circulation, it is very likely to be not circulating until the water in the boiler gets really hot then it suddenly flows, then it stops again. It needs to be sorted as this is stressing the system as it goes from really really hot to cold again and again. The pipe runs should rise all the way to the end of the circuit then it should fall all the way to the bottom of the back boiler. An expansion tank / pipe should be tee'd off from the very top of the pipe run. 

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8 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Apparently the later Squirrel stoves come with 2 plates installed above the door. One of which is removed when installing in a boat. Apparently both are left in when installed in a house. If you do a search on here you will find out more hopefully

Will look into it, thanks

8 minutes ago, Bee said:

What Jen says is correct. It should be silent. The whooshing sound is probably because of bad circulation, it is very likely to be not circulating until the water in the boiler gets really hot then it suddenly flows, then it stops again. It needs to be sorted as this is stressing the system as it goes from really really hot to cold again and again. The pipe runs should rise all the way to the end of the circuit then it should fall all the way to the bottom of the back boiler. An expansion tank / pipe should be tee'd off from the very top of the pipe run. 

 

I have just banked the stove up with more coal and closed the door. The temp has dropped on the bluespot quite a lot, but the noise has stopped. Is it bad circulation or just boiling? At a cursory look, the out pipe starts maybe 8cm from the gunnel and rises to meet it. Not sure if this is enough but it definitely rises. Return pipe harder to judge. I will measure when I've finished my dinner :D

Edited by DShK
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5 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

Now that the stove temp has dropped, I can hold my hand on them for maybe 10 seconds before it hurts... if that gives you an idea. Hot but not scalding... Backboiler still silent now. BlueSpot reading about 90C on the flue which is in the "creosote" range (I guess for wood, but that still reads as a low temp to me?)

Edited by DShK
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Hard to tell. The top pipe ought to rise all the way to the farthest point then turn and fall all the way to the bottom. If the stove is in the front of the boat and the boat sits down at the back you will struggle to get a rise at all unless the pipe goes up across the windows and the rads are hanging off the cabin sides. It is a simple theory and very effective but it can be difficult to achieve. On my last narrowboat I cut a hole in the floor to lower the stove to get that vital couple of inches of rise. You may very well find some sort of circulating pump is your best bet.

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4 minutes ago, DShK said:

Now that the stove temp has dropped, I can hold my hand on them for maybe 10 seconds before it hurts... if that gives you an idea. Hot but not scalding... Backboiler still silent now. BlueSpot reading about 90C on the flue which is in the "creosote" range (I guess for wood, but that still reads as a low temp to me?)

I would say, load it up (I think you have). When it is going sufficiently well close the bottom vent all but one turn and see if its still going in the morning 

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