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Sealed Lead Calcium Batteries


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Without thinking too much about my choice, I have rep[laced my domestic battery bank using sealed Lead Calcium batteries.

 

These ones in fact, although the price already seems to have gone up...

 

Enduroline Lead Acid Battery

 

I don't think I have previously had any batteries with calcium technology.

 

In simple terms what do I specifically need to be aware of in respect of things like charging voltage, please?

 

Many thanks.

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(correction), small differences in charging regime or voltages to simple lead acid, just make sure you give them a full charge when you first install them Alan, as any battery that gets delivered has an unknown to you fill date and storage in warehouse time - so some discharge will have occurred.

 

The typical lead acid charging voltage is between 2.15 volts per cell (12.9 volts for a 6 cell battery) and 2.35 volts per cell (14.1 volts for a 6 cell battery). The ideal charging voltage for a calcium battery is 14.8V for the recombination process to properly occur

Edited by matty40s
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BT started using VRSLA (valve regulated sealed lead acid) batteries in 1980 and still use them.

 

They float them at 2.24 volts per cell (13.44 volts for a 6 cell battery), with excursions up to 2.35 volts per cell during charging.

 

Do not charge them at too high a voltage, the valve will lift to vent the excess gas pressure, which is what recombines to make the electrolyte. This will shorten their lives.

 

High temperatures also drastically shorten their lives, halving the nominal (but not usually achievable) 10 year life at 20 degrees C for every 5 degrees over 25 degrees C.

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On 15/09/2022 at 12:39, matty40s said:

The ideal charging voltage for a calcium battery is 14.8V for the recombination process to properly occur

 

On 15/09/2022 at 19:05, cuthound said:

Do not charge them at too high a voltage, the valve will lift to vent the excess gas pressure, which is what recombines to make the electrolyte. This will shorten their lives.

 

Thanks gentlemen, but what is "too high a voltage" please?

 

My  recently acquired Victron Blue Smart charger doesn't seem to have a mass of configuration options, (though I have yet to access it via the Bluetooth app, to see what that offers,

 

By default it runs in "Normal" mode at 14.4V Absorption, 13.8V Float and 13.2V "Storage".

 

However there is a "High mode", where the Absorption figure is increased to 14.7V Absorption, but with Float and Storage  as above.

Which of these is better  for Lead Calcium, please ?

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26 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

My  recently acquired Victron Blue Smart charger doesn't seem to have a mass of configuration options, (though I have yet to access it via the Bluetooth app, to see what that offers,

Lots and lots of config via Bluetooth, more than you will ever feel comfortable with ;)

 

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1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

 

 

Thanks gentlemen, but what is "too high a voltage" please?

 

My  recently acquired Victron Blue Smart charger doesn't seem to have a mass of configuration options, (though I have yet to access it via the Bluetooth app, to see what that offers,

 

By default it runs in "Normal" mode at 14.4V Absorption, 13.8V Float and 13.2V "Storage".

 

However there is a "High mode", where the Absorption figure is increased to 14.7V Absorption, but with Float and Storage  as above.

Which of these is better  for Lead Calcium, please ?

 

They should be OK on the default float and storage settings, possibly with slightly reduced life.

 

If you can customise the float voltage to 13.44 volts, then do so.

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.We took 3 Leoch LeadCarbon off a boat recently on surveyor instructions as a dead battery bank.

Replaced with lead acid which satisfied both buyer and seller of  the boat.

They tested as finished.

I then read up on lead calcium and lead carbon batteries.

I stuck the 3 one at a time on a slow charge regime, starting at just under 16v, over several days, slowly recovering the apparently 2500 cycle battery.

They now sit at 12.8v after 3 weeks over 800cca, and 98% SOC.

It seems the lead calcium and lead carbon are the way to go.....stop the sulphation and you are on a winner.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, matty40s said:

I then read up on lead calcium and lead carbon batteries.

I stuck the 3 one at a time on a slow charge regime, starting at just under 16v, over several days, slowly recovering the apparently 2500 cycle battery.

 

 Ow I'm confused?

Should that be finishing?

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39 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Lead carbon batt voltages are different from LA, IIRC.

 

I considered buying some once and I think this was the reason I ruled them out. 

 

 

 

I don't think so. The carbon is just carbon fibres or, I suspect nowadays, nanoparticles mixed in with the lead paste that form the plates. I can see no reason that lead carbon batteries could not be either lead antimony or lead calcium technology, except I understand lead calcium plates might be a bit less robust than lead antimony. From what I can gather the idea is that the carbon conducts the charging current deep into the plates, thereby going some way to reduce the surface charge effect. If there is a difference in recommended charging voltage I would not expect it to be more than a very few 10ths of a volt which is similar to lead antimony and lead calcium. However, the equalization voltage may be a bit different. Remember anything above about 13.2 volts can fully recharge a lead acid battery given time, lots of time, that boaters tend not to have while cruising so the charging voltage tends to be the highest that will not damage the battery to minimise the charging time.

 

The late not much missed Elecsol used a weaker acid.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I don't think so. The carbon is just carbon fibres or, I suspect nowadays, nanoparticles mixed in with the lead paste that form the plates. I can see no reason that lead carbon batteries could not be either lead antinomy or lead calcium technology, except I understand lead calcium plates might be a bit less robust than lead antinomy. From what I can gather the idea is that the carbon conducts the charging current deep into the plates, thereby going some way to reduce the surface charge effect. If there is a difference in recommended charging voltage I would not expect it to be more than a very few 10ths of a volt which is similar to lead antinomy and lead calcium. However, the equalization voltage may be a bit different. Remember anything above about 13.2 volts can fully recharge a lead acid battery given time, lots of time, that boaters tend not to have while cruising so the charging voltage tends to be the highest that will not damage the battery to give the minimise the charging time.

 

The late not much missed Elecsol used a weaker acid.

Antimony surely Tony?  

Antinomy refers to a real or apparent mutual incompatibility of two laws. It is a term used in logic and epistemology, particularly in the philosophy of Kant and Roberto Unger.

 

Ah, the accursed Elecsols.  A nasty confidence trick worked by the man from the Wirral.

 

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17 hours ago, matty40s said:

.We took 3 Leoch LeadCarbon off a boat recently on surveyor instructions as a dead battery bank.

Replaced with lead acid which satisfied both buyer and seller of  the boat.

They tested as finished.

I then read up on lead calcium and lead carbon batteries.

I stuck the 3 one at a time on a slow charge regime, starting at just under 16v, over several days, slowly recovering the apparently 2500 cycle battery.

They now sit at 12.8v after 3 weeks over 800cca, and 98% SOC.

It seems the lead calcium and lead carbon are the way to go.....stop the sulphation and you are on a winner.

 

 

 

They may be 98% charged, but what is the useable capacity of the battery?

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I used to check the Ah capacity of the lead-acd batteries I used to use in my camper van by firstly fully charging, and then discharging at about 4.5A through an old car headlamp bulb to 10.8V  volts, and then immediatrly re-charging.  I used to take voltage readings at regular intervals and plot them on graph paper.  It is time-consuming though. At the start, every 15 mins was adequate, as it was only towards the end that more frequent readings were required to  prevent discharge lower than 10.8V.  I did later knock up a simple, non-electronic, circuit using a couple of 12V relays and a variable resistor, that would automatically switch from discharge to charge at the  10.8V point. 

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58 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

I used to check the Ah capacity of the lead-acd batteries I used to use in my camper van by firstly fully charging, and then discharging at about 4.5A through an old car headlamp bulb to 10.8V  volts, and then immediatrly re-charging.  I used to take voltage readings at regular intervals and plot them on graph paper.  It is time-consuming though. At the start, every 15 mins was adequate, as it was only towards the end that more frequent readings were required to  prevent discharge lower than 10.8V.  I did later knock up a simple, non-electronic, circuit using a couple of 12V relays and a variable resistor, that would automatically switch from discharge to charge at the  10.8V point. 

That is the only way I know to check the capacity of a battery, but trying to tell people that is something else. They all want to just stick a tester on for 30 seconds.

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2 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

I used to check the Ah capacity of the lead-acd batteries I used to use in my camper van by firstly fully charging, and then discharging at about 4.5A through an old car headlamp bulb to 10.8V  volts, and then immediatrly re-charging.  I used to take voltage readings at regular intervals and plot them on graph paper.  It is time-consuming though. At the start, every 15 mins was adequate, as it was only towards the end that more frequent readings were required to  prevent discharge lower than 10.8V.  I did later knock up a simple, non-electronic, circuit using a couple of 12V relays and a variable resistor, that would automatically switch from discharge to charge at the  10.8V point. 

I , long ago realised due to an inherent urge to do daft things on skis and other sporting equipment that you are only on this planet for limited period. 

On buying the boat, I decided that a once off brassing mushrooms was enough and used Incralac.

I also decided that anal monitoring of battery bank voltages and capacity was similar to brass, sort it or replace it. Solar, and then if its dying, get shot.

Boating is far too much fun, and there isn't enough time to worry about crap things, once I'm retired, my focus might change of course.

  • Greenie 1
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9 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I , long ago realised due to an inherent urge to do daft things on skis and other sporting equipment that you are only on this planet for limited period. 

On buying the boat, I decided that a once off brassing mushrooms was enough and used Incralac.

I also decided that anal monitoring of battery bank voltages and capacity was similar to brass, sort it or replace it. Solar, and then if its dying, get shot.

Boating is far too much fun, and there isn't enough time to worry about crap things, once I'm retired, my focus might change of course.

 

 

I feel much the same way. I absolutely CBA with washing my bote, polishing stuff or generally trying to hold back the tide of time or the weather. I just like being on it, doing a bit of cruising and generally enjoying the environment. I bought a set of posh batteries once and a SG to look after them. Waste of time and effort, other than for the pleasure from figuring out what went wrong. 

 

Nowadays I just have the two botes, and both of them are looking well used.

 

Incralac? I expect you'll be needing extra blue to go with that Sir...

 

 

 

 

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One way to get a very rough idea about the present capacity on open cell batteries is to get as accurate rested voltage reading you can and then compare the state of charge that gives with the temperature corrected specific gravity from a hydrometer. The greater the difference the more sulphation and thus the less capacity. However, that is not possible if the batteries are seals.

 

I suspect Matty probably used a high rate discharge tester to assess capacity, but they need matching to the battery capacity so a 100Ah battery being tested with a car tester that is probably calibrated for less than half that capacity is likely to show up as good.

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