Trent & Mersey re-opening Monday

[Arthur Marshall]

Entire T&M opening on Monday, Harecastle still bookings only.

[Tracy D'arth]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

, Harecastle still bookings only.

Can they do that legally?  We have a right to navigation, if the tunnel is available, can they refuse its use?

[ditchcrawler]

3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Can they do that legally?  We have a right to navigation, if the tunnel is available, can they refuse its use?

 

3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Can they do that legally?  We have a right to navigation, if the tunnel is available, can they refuse its use?

I don't think we have a "right" any more

[Rob-M]

10 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Can they do that legally?  We have a right to navigation, if the tunnel is available, can they refuse its use?

It will be available at the time you have booked, you may have to book in a specific time window but you will then be able to navigate through.  It's required someone to tell you when you can go through for a lot of years.

[Mike Tee]

I'm guessing Harecastle is restricted due to lack of ventilation. No man (or woman) to turn on the fan, no navigation. Sounds reasonable.

[Tracy D'arth]

I was referring whether access could be refused simply because there was no booking when the tunnel was already manned and open for booked passage.

The arrangement was that turn up in the morning and if there was less than 8 boats passage was assured. The bookings were for the afternoon passage.

That arrangement worked well with seldom a wait.

[Midnight]

Good news gives a bit of hope for the Pennine routes too. Dont mind booked passage. Any passage is better than none. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Midnight

[Tim Lewis]

2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Can they do that legally?  We have a right to navigation, if the tunnel is available, can they refuse its use?

The right to navigation was extinguished. In the 1968 transport act

Edited September 9, 2022 by Tim Lewis

[Puffling]

4 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Entire T&M opening on Monday, Harecastle still bookings only.

With the caveat that they can shut it above lock 29 again with one week's notice if the recent resumption of rainfall peters out.

 

[Arthur Marshall]

I suspect it's as much due to dodgy water levels meaning so few boats they don't want to pay staff if no-one's about. You already have to book other manned structures like some locks and the Lift.

The tunnel blokes are run by an agency now, only get paid when they work. 

[Machpoint005]

On 09/09/2022 at 17:26, Tracy D'arth said:

Can they do that legally?  We have a right to navigation, if the tunnel is available, can they refuse its use?

 

In view of the safety implications CRT might find themselves in trouble if they did not close the tunnel for "operational reasons". The Trust has a duty of care, whether we like it or not.

 

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

In view of the safety implications CRT might find themselves in trouble if they did not close the tunnel for "operational reasons". The Trust has a duty of care, whether we like it or not.

 

Thay have just said its will be opening again for un-booked passage. Did that actually close it or was it bookings only

[Tracy D'arth]

3 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

In view of the safety implications CRT might find themselves in trouble if they did not close the tunnel for "operational reasons". The Trust has a duty of care, whether we like it or not.

 

Not what I asked.

[Arthur Marshall]

35 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Thay have just said its will be opening again for un-booked passage. Did that actually close it or was it bookings only

It was bookings only. It was only closed temporarily when there was a risk of boats getting stuck.

On 09/09/2022 at 17:26, Tracy D'arth said:

Can they do that legally?  We have a right to navigation, if the tunnel is available, can they refuse its use?

I presume if they can chain locks up so you can't use them for six months, they can refuse to open the tunnel doors or run the fan.

[Tracy D'arth]

3 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It was bookings only. It was only closed temporarily when there was a risk of boats getting stuck.

I presume if they can chain locks up so you can't use them for six months, they can refuse to open the tunnel doors or run the fan.

I was getting round to the use unbooked as it was.  When it was booked only, could they refuse you passage if there was less than 8 boats going and you had NOT booked when you turned up? In other words the tunnel was open, available, manned but you had to be booked in.

[ditchcrawler]

8 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I was getting round to the use unbooked as it was.  When it was booked only, could they refuse you passage if there was less than 8 boats going and you had NOT booked when you turned up? In other words the tunnel was open, available, manned but you had to be booked in.

No idea, it sounds sensible, but then you can't go down onto the Montgomery if you haven't booked, even if there are only 2 others going down

[Arthur Marshall]

3 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I was getting round to the use unbooked as it was.  When it was booked only, could they refuse you passage if there was less than 8 boats going and you had NOT booked when you turned up? In other words the tunnel was open, available, manned but you had to be booked in.

Technically, I believe so as it says bookings only in the afternoons. But I've spoken to a few who have turned up on spec and have been let through, tagged on the end of the booked ones. If no-one's booked, though, you wouldn't get through because the tunnel blokes go home.

There is one very, very officious bloke there who might not, though. He's the one who tries to insist you don't have a fire lit at all, not just damped down.

[Rob-M]

When we went through Harecastle last year we were booked for 2:30pm but arrived a few hours early.  The lady operating the tunnel came to see us and said as soon as the boat coming through was out we could go straight in.

[Arthur Marshall]

When I got held up there just before the closure they were extremely helpful, came round offering to do any shopping for us if we were running out. Mostly they're fine.

[Jerra]

Apart from occasionally allowing the workers to skive clock of early, is there any sensible reason why they can't just let boats through in batches, as and when the tunnel is vacant.

 

For example batch going north they exit tunnel boats waiting go south and repeat as necessary.

[Arthur Marshall]

That's what used to happen before the efficiency drive, which as usual made everything mote complicated and worse for the user. Better for the agency that employs the tunnel blokes though,.

They don't clock off early on a skive (don't judge everyone by your working practices), because they only get paid for the hours they work. The first thing that happened when CRT farmed them out to an agency was they no longer got paid for lunch breaks, so the tunnel closed sometime between 12 and 2 as they had their lunch. Previously, they just let you through while they munched. They're usually nice enough to try to schedule their lunches when no-one's waiting, but it can't always be done, and why should they  anyway?

[Machpoint005]

22 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Not what I asked.

 

You might not have asked directly, but that does not alter the Trust's duty of care, nor that of the Trust's contractors.

 

[magpie patrick]

On 09/09/2022 at 17:26, Tracy D'arth said:

Can they do that legally?  We have a right to navigation, if the tunnel is available, can they refuse its use?

 The public right of navigation was withdrawn from British Waterways Canals (but not rivers) by the 1968 Transport Act - canals are now permissive routes and your licence gives permission to use them subject to various conditions. One of those conditions is that you must follow instructions give by the board, it's employees or representatives (there are fairly obvious limitations - if you were instructed to leave your boat in gear, get off it and then swim though the tunnel behind it you'd be quite within your rights to decline) 

 

In short, if the board say their policy is "no booking, no passage" and their representative at the tunnel enforces it, then it's legit.