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system 4-50

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By good fortune I have recently acquired a metal-working lathe and a mill.  I am a total beginner at using these grand devices but need some practical tasks to carry out on them while I learn.   Do the panel have any ideas of objects that they would like to see available for use on their boats that could be made on such devices?  Note that I do not have welding equipment myself.  Total flights of fancy welcome.

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25 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

By good fortune I have recently acquired a metal-working lathe and a mill.  I am a total beginner at using these grand devices but need some practical tasks to carry out on them while I learn.   Do the panel have any ideas of objects that they would like to see available for use on their boats that could be made on such devices?  Note that I do not have welding equipment myself.  Total flights of fancy welcome.

Convert the mill into high end apartments (like the Titanic Mill near Huddersfield)  then you could pay someone to make stuff for you on the lathe.😄

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2 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

single eye windlass head to fit tapered spindle - then just needs welding onto 'L' shaped bar

 

I know you can get drill attachments to drill square holes but on a taper as well? Not sure a lathe and a mill are suited to that job. I suppose a very small mill tool could cut a flat face and if the table was angled cut a taper, but the corners would be round or need fettling.

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For  lathework:

 

Tiller pins, gives you practice at turning aluminium or brass and steel, template work, threadcutting male and female  and at artistic expression😊

 

Pokers.  Make good Christmas presents for your boating mates.  Can be recycled into tiller pins-see above.

 

Mooring stakes.  Taper turning is an   Ideal way to put a point on, or to turn off the mushroom heads before one splits and bites you.

 

If you can hold the things you need to polish, a lathe is great for polishing stuff like tiller bars, brass mushrooms etc.

 

Substantial weld on hinges.

 

Fancy knobs for doors, blind pulls etc.

 

Milling:

Squirrel stove coal rail retaining bars.   Mild steel ones  last much longer than the cast morsò ones.

 

  I made all my traditional engine controls  on a lathe and mill, ( except the bevel gears which I just  could not raise the enthusiasm for ).

 

Generally, let your friends know that you now have the machine tools and they will soon come up with 'just' jobs, like  "Can you just make a new connecting rod for my SDS hammer drill as the bearing in mine is knackered?".  Most such requests will, if successfully done, result in an inflow of beer coupons and an expanding reputation, which brings more jobs/beer coupons etc.

 

Don't forget that the principal product of lathe and mill is swarf.  Anything useful left behind is a bonus!🙂

 

N

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8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I know you can get drill attachments to drill square holes but on a taper as well? Not sure a lathe and a mill are suited to that job. I suppose a very small mill tool could cut a flat face and if the table was angled cut a taper, but the corners would be round or need fettling.

To make tapered square or rectangular holes you need a slotting attachment, or a shaper.  You can get away with milling two tapering L shapes and then welding them together.  The set up for milling requires care and thought.  I note the OP does not have a welder.

 

N

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50 minutes ago, Loddon said:

As said something like this 

https://marinestore.co.uk/narrowboat-brass-tiller-pin-large-shaped-n-02458.html

Easily made from brass rod could be a good starter.

 

Lots of fun to be had there. The price of brass has gone up massively like everything else. I had a couple of door knobs made using these as a pattern and it came out at £70. Not sure why the doors are on their side.doors2.jpg.7639b7990837bfbc709e2dba26248cb6.jpg

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8 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I'm looking for a need that is not satisfied in the general marketplace…   Tiller pins are ten a penny on any street corner.

I did not realise you were looking for a market.  I thought you just wanted some turning and milling practice.

 

Bulk sales will never be available to someone who wants/needs to turn  handles.  The canal boat market can probably be filled by a (fifteenth hand) capstan or cam auto.  If not,  a basic  CNC machine will spit out more widgets than than any canal market can absorb, as fast as you like.  Set up costs are a one off that, at the right scale, disappear into the unit price.

N

 

 

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7 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

I am a total beginner at using these grand devices but need some practical tasks to carry out on them while I learn.

Hence the suggestions of tiller pins, fairly simple items to make but will allow you to build up your skills.

 

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The hard part of machining is not the actual metal removal.  It is planning the job so you can always get hold of the item without damaging a machined face, maintain concentricity where needed, get accurate sizes and don't end up wasting lots of material as chucking pieces or time spent making fixtures that  would not have been needed if the job had been tackled a better way.

 

The 'words and music ' articles in the model engineering press are worth a careful  read.  They might be a lot steam loco oriented and not of apparent interest for that reason, but they are an excellent guide to how to do  difficult machining things, usually written by folks who have real skills and good experience.

 

N

 

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How big is the lathe? That has a large bearing on what you might be able to make.

 

I recently purchased a Myford/Drummond M which is extremely rigid and works well but is limited to 3.5" swing so 7" diameter (although you can get 11" in the gap). It is the right size for most of what I want to do, which is mainly BSF nuts and studs (pre-war size BSF nuts for the Kelvin are unobtainable) and boring out worn holes oversize to fit bushes but it isn't big enough for things like spinning porthole liners, which is a rapidly emerging market as everyone else gives up.

 

Alec

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Save on metal to practice with on the mill by using a block of expanded polystyrene. This is what people like airbus do when using a new program on a cnc machine run the program then coat in body filler machine again then measure it tweak the program as required and repeat until it’s correct. So practice machining a perfect square etc then you will soon get the hang of it before machining a v8 block engine for your boat lol

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Get used to 'skip diving' raw material is expensive, especially in small quantities.

When I had my workshop two things used to really tick me off - those folk who would turn up "Can you make me one of these?" Sure have you got the material? "No, I thought you'd have some" and "Can you make one of these but a bit bigger/smaller" "How much bigger/smaller?" "Well, you know, it just won't quite fit at this size". Not helpful!

I once made a very nice poker for a pal & gave it to him in the pub (I never charged mates, & rarely anyone else if they passed the attitude test) a complete stranger asked will you make one for me? Sure, I'd want £5 for materials and a half hour of whatever your hourly rate is; Oh, I'm not paying for it he replied. I didn't make the poker.

I made quite a bit of stuff for a steam loco restoration society, they always provided material & dimensions.

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3 hours ago, nb Innisfree said:

I've made so many accessories for my Myford I've lost count. 

That is what machines tools are for.  One makes things in order to make other things. The small Myford lathes must have more accessories than any other lathe in history.

 

My latest decent project was a  metal moulding die to make net finished size hump-back bridge shaped  white metal bearings for  the Kelvin J water pump crankshaft.  Small projects were new double ended studs, and a set of pins for the impulse drive but they didn't involve making other things first in order to be able to make them.

N

 

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2 minutes ago, BEngo said:

That is what machines tools are for.  One makes things in order to make other things. The small Myford lathes must have more accessories than any other lathe in history.

 

My latest decent project was a  metal moulding die to make net finished size hump-back bridge shaped  white metal bearings for  the Kelvin J water pump crankshaft.  Small projects were new double ended studs, and a set of pins for the impulse drive but they didn't involve making other things first in order to be able to make them.

N

 

I'd be interested in your method for making double-ended studs.

 

I have one, which works to a point, but I am not entirely happy with it. I have a piece of fairly large hex bar (~1" AF), drilled and tapped clear through to form a long, oversize nut. I take a piece of suitable diameter rod and start a thread on one end, putting the bar in the lathe chuck (through the mandrel if possible) and holding the die square against the end with the tailstock. I then take it out of the lathe and grip it in the vice to cut the thread on one end, then reverse the process to start a thread on the other end. I screw the fully cut thread into the hex, insert a bolt from the other end of the hex and lock the part in place by tightening the long nut against the bolt, grip the nut in the vice and cut my thread. I can then part off the length of threaded bar and repeat to make as many as I want. I then recover the long nut and insert the pre-threaded end of each stud in it and lock it up. I can then grip that in the lathe to face off the cut end of the stud and add a chamfer, and start the thread.

 

Where it gets tedious is that I have no good way to cut the threads in the lathe - it feels like I am putting too much stress on the chuck to turn it by hand (not enough torque to use the motor) and I can't get them to screwcut nicely.

 

The end result is fine, but it feels too laborious, and involves repeated re-setting which loses all accuracy.

 

Do you have a better way?

 

Alec

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My method.

 

Put bar in lathe chuck. If it is small-  like 6mm-  use a tailstock centre and allow extra length if you cannot accept the hole.  Turn ends to appropriate sizes.    Cut a run out groove at the chuck end with parting tool.   Screw cut the two threads.  Single point is easiest as the form tools mean a wide run out.

Part off.

Repeat till you have enough studs😊

 

Put a split nut in the chuck. Nip up gently.  Insert stud. Tighten chuck to clamp the stud.  Face and chamfer with a suitable  tool. Do other end and repeat until you have no more studs.

 

  Or  make one end, die cutting the thread in a tail stock die holder,  part off to length and chamfer with a form tool. then hold in a split nut and do the other end.

 

N

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On 04/09/2022 at 09:19, agg221 said:

How big is the lathe? That has a large bearing on what you might be able to make.

14" x 39" nominal.

On 04/09/2022 at 12:57, nb Innisfree said:

I've made so many accessories for my Myford I've lost count. 

It is noticeable that a large proportion of projects on youtube consist of making parts and accessories for the lathe/mill itself, which is a bit incestuous and not very interesting.

 

My prime source of instruction is Blondihacks on youtube.  She also provides some simple starter projects.  

 

So, I'll try to be more specific.  

I am not interested in mass production.  This is inappropriate, as described above, to the machinery I have. 

I am interested in solving problems.  At one time I was very irritated because I could not obtain a sink, with matching sink-drain, angled connector to hose, and hose to hull fitting and hull fitting in a small number of easy purchases.  Some pieces were imperial and some metric and the whole business was unnecessarily complicated.  Now a simple 3D printed angle bend would have helped but I don't even now (yes, it is amazing) have a 3D printer.  I do have these metalworking tools and wondered if there were any boaty problems I could address and give to some active boaters to try out.  If it involved a bit of electronics that would be good too.

 

I am also not willing to hack about with somebody's prized parts (?).  I am only willing to start from new material as I will inevitable have to have upteen goes at it and junk a lot.

 

If no ideas are forthcoming I too will have to have a go at making the ultimate windlass...

 

 

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On 04/09/2022 at 18:32, BEngo said:

My method.

 

Put bar in lathe chuck. If it is small-  like 6mm-  use a tailstock centre and allow extra length if you cannot accept the hole.  Turn ends to appropriate sizes.    Cut a run out groove at the chuck end with parting tool.   Screw cut the two threads.  Single point is easiest as the form tools mean a wide run out.

Part off.

Repeat till you have enough studs😊

 

Put a split nut in the chuck. Nip up gently.  Insert stud. Tighten chuck to clamp the stud.  Face and chamfer with a suitable  tool. Do other end and repeat until you have no more studs.

 

  Or  make one end, die cutting the thread in a tail stock die holder,  part off to length and chamfer with a form tool. then hold in a split nut and do the other end.

 

N

Thanks - I am mostly making 1/4", 5/16" and 3/8" at the moment. The lathe can't pull a die down the stock in a single pass so I end up using a die by hand in the vice (having got them nicely started square using the lathe tailstock). I will have to get to grips with screwcutting, but my one attempt so far at 5/16" BSF which required 22tpi was not a complete success as I didn't have the tailstock centre in so I got too much deflection and the stock kept jumping the tool.

 

Alec

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I think you're trying to run before you can walk if thinking of selling what you make.  Get used to using the machines.  Make anything just for the practice.   Maybe get some training ?  Join a local model engineering club or get some evening classes.

 

Do you know the first rule of using a lathe ? 

Clue - something to do with the chuck key.

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