considering moving into a boat but need advice

[Ana Bright]

Hello, and I hope everyone is well and safe. I am new to this and I am  in need of some help please. I am currently selling my family home and considering moving into a boat. I found one which I truly love and obtain as much information about it via the estate agent and have had 2 viewings already. Is a 100 year old classic barge being sold with mooring rights, and freehold ownership of River Bank. 

 

The barge has been very well maintain, engine changed 2016, boiler / central heating and more work on it has been done recently - It had a service and survey in July this year, so when I asked about how feasible it would be for me to perform my own survey it was mentioned that it wouldn't be feasible due to having to transfer the barge from one place to a completely different location, complicated by the size which financially will make it extremely expensive.   

 

So I have been wondering for the last 2 days on what to do, since I can see the vital importance of having a survey done and wondering if any of you have come across any situation like this? Where you weren't able to perform a survey on a boat prior buying it? or risks and implications of doing this. 

 

I will greatly appreciate any guidance or advice 

 

Thank you once again

 

Ana 

 

 

 

 

[john.k]

How big is it?....If you can access the steel hull (may be iron ,of course) from inside ,an ultrasonic device can measure thickness of solid metal,and also any buildup adherent to the metal.

[rusty69]

If I was spending 300 k on a boat, I would want an independent survey too on a 100 year old vessel unless I could satisfy myself that the recent survey was genuine and undertaken by a reputable surveyor, and I could speak to them about it. 

 

Have you read the survey? 

 

Is it the boat in York? 

 

[john.k]

I d assume land value and mooring would be a fair part of the asking,and maybe the surveyor needed be a Land surveyor.

[Rob-M]

I would be suspicious of them not wanting you to have an independent survey.  If they had said there would be a cost to move it for a survey that you would need to pay then I could understand that but to say it isn't feasible sounds like they are trying to hide something.

[BEngo]

No Survey, no sale.

 

N

[PD1964]

?

Edited September 1, 2022 by PD1964

[PD1964]

8 hours ago, Ana Bright said:

 It had a service and survey in July this year, so when I asked about how feasible it would be for me to perform my own survey it was mentioned that it wouldn't be feasible due to having to transfer the barge from one place to a completely different location, complicated by the size which financially will make it extremely expensive.   

  Your insurance company will more then likely accept this survey for insurance purposes as it’s quite recent. But remember with a boat of that age, they will likely require a full out of water hull survey every 4 years, so please factor this in. They have already said it wouldn’t be feasible and extremely expensive. 
 You’ve said you’ve already found one that you truly love, don’t let your heart rule your head or decisions, you could end up regretting it and financially ruined. You have to think about your family’s future and not an idea and something you’ve just falling in love with. Most will say your mad to sell a house to buy a boat for your family, especially if it can’t go anywhere and is just a floating home. Please consider everything else before a boat.

Edited September 1, 2022 by PD1964

[dmr]

Living on a boat has a number of disadvantages, one of theses is that they mostly go down in value rather up, and sometimes go down in value very suddenly. As your boat comes with freehold land then you have some protection from this, but if the boat does sink or becomes structurally unsound you might have to foot the huge bill for its removal. The big big advantage of living on a boat is that you can go boating, and it sounds like this is not possible in your case.  Only buy it if you could stand the loss without financial ruin.

[Bee]

Is this an elderly Dutch barge?  The Dutch Barge Association is a better place to try but in a nutshell 100 years is old for any boat, your boat will have been rivetted not welded. I reckon I am pretty knowlegable about boats and would happily survey a narrowboat myself but I don't think I would risk a barge. I would have to have a survey by someone who really knew what they are talking about.. If you look at beunen met boten on You tube and have a wander about the sites that will lead off of it you will see people who know about these things repairing and restoring old Dutch boats, cutting out plates and all sorts of clever stuff, that will give you an idea of what might be involved. Virtually all metal boats can be repaired to as good as new and yours could well be in good condition but maintenance can be an issue so forewarned can be forearmed. Good luck with it.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, Ana Bright said:

It had a service and survey in July this year,

 

Why did it have a survey ?

 

Was it a potential buyer who commissioned the survey ?

Was the survey a 'bad one' and the potential sale fell thru because the remedial work was too extensive ?

 

Have you seen the survey ?
What were the recommendations and conclusions ?

Have you spoken with the surveyor to see if he would (for a payment) transfer the 'ownership' of the survey to you ?

 

Lots of questions to be answered before you sign the cheque.

[PD1964]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Why did it have a survey ?

 

Was it a potential buyer who commissioned the survey ?

Was the survey a 'bad one' and the potential sale fell thru because the remedial work was too extensive ?

 

Have you seen the survey ?
What were the recommendations and conclusions ?

Have you spoken with the surveyor to see if he would (for a payment) transfer the 'ownership' of the survey to you ?

 

Lots of questions to be answered before you sign the cheque.

More likely due to it’s age for insurance purposes. But the buyer needs to ask as you say. She needs to find out if the boat was up for sale prior true, maybe the owner got fed up with doing a survey every 4 years for insurance and the costs and hassle of moving the boat that it involves?

[howardang]

Welcome to the forum, and another recruit to the ever growing band of those who wish to take to the waterways for a change of lifestyle. I would suggest that you have a look through the search facility on  here which will lead you to many discussions about this subject with contributions and similar questions from other newcomers to the waterways. I would particularly urge you to think about what living on a boat full time, winter and summer actually entails. It is not an easy option for a complete boating novice and newcomers can quickly become disillusioned with what they thought would be an idyllic change of pace. I would spend some time hiring a boat and get to know a little of what the life would actually entail, before taking the plunge with a very old boat such as the one you mentioned. 

 

Good luck with whatever you decide but please think long and hard before making such a major decision.

 

Howard

Edited September 1, 2022 by howardang

[Tam & Di]

There is something seriously odd about this - the OP should certainly ask the questions put by Alan for starters. A copy of the survey report would be a good beginning but the OP should realise that she could not use it herself for anything like insurance purposes unless the ownership was transferred to her. There is nothing wrong with a 100 year old barge per se, but what does 'well maintained' mean here? That could simply be sweeping  the floor each day. I don't quite understand why moving a motorised barge from one place to another for docking and survey should be prohibitively expensive, but we don't know the distances involved. She needs to look properly at the mooring position - what annual costs are involved? is it liable to flooding?

 

Ana certainly needs to throw away the rose-tinted spectacles and look at both the barge and living afloat seriously. I wish her well.

 

Tam

Edited September 1, 2022 by Tam & Di

[Mike Tee]

It's a barge, it has had a recent new engine. So it should float and move without problem. Apart from the way of life questions that have been asked, if the seller is against having a survey, for whatever reason they are giving, then as far as I'm concerned big red flags are being waved and I'd walk away until they change their mind. 

[rusty69]

If it is the boat in York, at 300K maybe a survey is required for a mortgage. Though I suppose if the OP is selling a property, one may not be required.

[BEngo]

I am not aware that anyone is offering proper Marine mortgages, secured against the boat, these days.  Personal loans are different, and not secured by the boat, so a survey is not required by the lender.

 

 

N

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, BEngo said:

I am not aware that anyone is offering proper Marine mortgages, secured against the boat, these days.  Personal loans are different, and not secured by the boat, so a survey is not required by the lender.

 

 

N

 

 

There are still a number of companies offering marine mortgages (particularly for liveaboards) a quick Google brings up several.

 

Here is one that specialises in Inland waterways NBs, WBs and Barges

Narrowboat Finance, Canal Boat Loan, Narrow Boat, Canal Boat Mortgage, Inland Boat Finance | Sure Marine Finance

 

The problem comes when the lender demands that the boat is Part 1 registered  (which many certainly did require in the past) which for a 'paperless' boat is

almost impossible to comply with

 

Part 1 registration requirements 

 

Register a boat: The UK Ship Register - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

 

Part 1 registration - commercial or pleasure boats

You can use Part 1 of the register if you have either:

a commercial boat, unless you plan to use it for fishing

a ‘pleasure vessel’ - this means you do not make any money from it

Registering your boat on Part 1 of the register means you’ll be able to:

get a marine mortgage against your boat

spend more than 6 months outside the UK

It costs £153 to register for 5 years.

[rusty69]

10 hours ago, Bee said:

Is this an elderly Dutch barge?  The Dutch Barge Association is a better place to try but in a nutshell 100 years is old for any boat, your boat will have been rivetted not welded. I reckon I am pretty knowlegable about boats and would happily survey a narrowboat myself but I don't think I would risk a barge. I would have to have a survey by someone who really knew what they are talking about.. If you look at beunen met boten on You tube and have a wander about the sites that will lead off of it you will see people who know about these things repairing and restoring old Dutch boats, cutting out plates and all sorts of clever stuff, that will give you an idea of what might be involved. Virtually all metal boats can be repaired to as good as new and yours could well be in good condition but maintenance can be an issue so forewarned can be forearmed. Good luck with it.

 

 

If it is the boat in York, it looks more like a Humber keel to my untrained eye,

[Tam & Di]

Where's the picture?

 

Tam

[Alan de Enfield]

46 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

Where's the picture?

 

Tam

 

 

General concensus appears to be it is this one :

 

 

 

 

The barge has full residential status and is connected to mains services whilst moored, with all necessary surveys and safety tickets. The sale includes the full freehold ownership of the mooring. This is an extremely rare opportunity as very few barges of this quality exist in the country and it would make an ideal home or investment property being close to the City of York.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Richard10002]

14 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Why did it have a survey ?

 

 

As well as "Why" did it have a survey?, the question ought to also ask "How" did it have a survey in July?...... given that the agents are now saying that a survey is not feasible.

 

I can understand it being difficult/inconvenient to disconnect the mains services and get it to a yard for lifting and inspection, but that does not mean it isnt "feasible". It seems to mean they wont allow it.

 

Given that the agents say that a survey is available from them, I would be getting a copy of the survey and asking the surveyor what it would cost to transfer his/her obligations to me, and how/where was the survey done?

 

It is quite possible that the seller arranged the survey.... I have done that in the past, so need not be anything to be suspicious of.

[MtB]

I'd be focussing on the value and status of the freehold mooring myself, at the price mentioned of £300k. Check the planning permission, rights of access etc are valid.

 

The boat can be changed if it turns out to be a pile of poo but you're stuck with the land, although the boat being a colander seems unlikely given the effort they've put into making it nice. If it sinks in ten years due to lack of hull maintenance someone will always buy it for £30k then you can buy and put something more sensible and useable on the mooring.

 

By useable I mean a boat you can use to go boating. Or buy another enormous barge. Buying a 100 year old iron barge does NOT come with all the same reasurances you get with a house, no matter how much one tries to make it so.

 

I'd also suggest you purchase the land in a separate transaction from the boat, or you'll pay Stamp Duty Land Tax on the whole lot. 

 

 

[rusty69]

8 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

General concensus appears to be it is this one :

 

 

 

The barge has full residential status and is connected to mains services whilst moored, with all necessary surveys and safety tickets. The sale includes the full freehold ownership of the mooring. This is an extremely rare opportunity as very few barges of this quality exist in the country and it would make an ideal home or investment property being close to the City of York.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure it is general consensus, merely a question I asked in my first reply. It doesn't look like the OP is too interested in answering it, or other questions though. Maybe too busy boat buying.

[GUMPY]

Since the OP last visited yesterday at 01.40 they will not have seen any of the replies