Help Fitting fuel locking system

[Spudwynk]

Me again. This time on behalf of hubby. Bought fuel locking cap from midland chandlers and he can't get it fitted

 

Here is his description.  No photos in situ as he didn't think to take them and now he's annoyed he couldn't get it working so put it back to how it was

 

Trued to put the fuel lock on. Cannot get it to fit properly.
If you put it on top of the fuel point the circle is too small to let the cap out.

Cannot put the cap on top as it won't catch the thread of the actual fuel pipe. The bit on top of the fuel pipe that the fuel cap sits in does not come off.

No idea how it is supposed to work

 

Any help would be appreciated 

[Tracy D'arth]

You have to remove the whole filler assembly from the boat, disconnecting the pipe under if there is one. The two piece surround  A & B of the lock goes under the mounting of the fuel assembly with the screws through both, if they are long enough!

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 minute ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You have to remove the whole filler assembly from the boat, disconnecting the pipe under if there is one. The two piece surround  A & B of the lock goes under the mounting of the fuel assembly with the screws through both, if they are long enough!

The pitch circle that the holes are on has to be the same for both the filler and the lock. If they are not, then the lock probably isn't going to be usable, as it is the wrong size for the filler. If the screws are not long enough, then longer screws can be obtained.

[Spudwynk]

15 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You have to remove the whole filler assembly from the boat, disconnecting the pipe under if there is one. The two piece surround  A & B of the lock goes under the mounting of the fuel assembly with the screws through both, if they are long enough!

Hmm so that's the problem. He can't get the whole filler assembly off. Says it would fit if he could. And he will be worried about being too brutal to get it out and damaging it

 

In that case are there any other fuel locking solutions we can try

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Spudwynk said:

In that case are there any other fuel locking solutions we can try

 

This is what we have  Just a simple bit of welding.

 

 

 

[Puffling]

I did this, using the exact same cap.

 

I suspect you may have the same issue as I found, in that the filler flange is bolted to the underlying plate with threaded screws. Once unscrewed a certain amount, the screw just twists uselessly, with no way of getting any tool through the neck to hold steady the nut and remove it.

 

In the end I had to remove the larger plate onto which the filler flange is bolted. This is secured with self-tapping screws. Or at least it was in my case. You'll need a big hammer and cold chisel to prise the plate from the diesel tank below it, as it will have some sealant between the two sheets of steel. In my case Sikaflex, which is a rather good adhesive! Plenty of touching up of paintwork followed.

 

The cap lock works well, however. A touch expensive, but very nicely finished.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Puffling

[Tony Brooks]

24 minutes ago, Spudwynk said:

Hmm so that's the problem. He can't get the whole filler assembly off. Says it would fit if he could. And he will be worried about being too brutal to get it out and damaging it

 

In that case are there any other fuel locking solutions we can try

 

I know he forgot to take any photos but without a photo we can't know how your boat was built. Puffing might be right, but I have seen few bats built that way so we are all just guessing.

 

Assuming that he got all the screws out ad that there were no nuts under the deck that were turning.

 

First of all look down the filler with a torch to try to see if it goes straight into the tank, most do but some may be connected to pipework.  If so he will have to unscrew the cap from the pipework below or if the pipework is hose free the hose from the filler.

 

If you can see there is no pipe screwed into the filler, and it is fitted directly on top of the tank almost certainly the fitting has been sealed to the tank top with one of the modern sealer-adhesives. This will not be easy to free and may well damage the paintwork around the filler, as shown in the first photo. he could try putting a craft knife between the filler and deck, but it is likely to be slow-going. I think that I would try to work a wood chisel blade under the gap until I could lever it up at several places around the filler flange. When he comes to refit it it is vital that he removes all the old sealer and applies new, this also applies to the top of the screw threads. The last thing you want is rain and leaky gate water finding its way into your fuel tank.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[Jen-in-Wellies]

12 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

If you can see there is no pipe screwed into the filler, and it is fitted directly on top of the tank almost certainly the fitting has been sealed to the tank top with one of the modern sealer-adhesives. This will not be easy to free and may well damage the paintwork around the filler, as shown in the first photo. he could try putting a craft knife between the filler and deck, but it is likely to be slow-going. I think that I would try to work a wood chisel blade under the gap until I could lever it up at several places around the filler flange.

Another possible way would be to get a piece of fishing line, either some found wrapped around a swan, or from a friendly angler, and saw it back and forth through the sealant.

[Puffling]

11 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I know he forgot to take any photos but without a photo we can't know how your boat was built. Puffing might be right, but I have seen few bats built that way so we are all just guessing.

 

Assuming that he got all the screws out ad that there were no nuts under the deck that were turning.

 

First of all look down the filler with a torch to try to see if it goes straight into the tank, most do but some may be connected to pipework.  If so he will have to unscrew the cap from the pipework below or if the pipework is hose free the hose from the filler.

 

If you can see there is no pipe screwed into the filler, and it is fitted directly on top of the tank almost certainly the fitting has been sealed to the tank top with one of the modern sealer-adhesives. This will not be easy to free and may well damage the paintwork around the filler, as shown in the first photo. he could try putting a craft knife between the filler and deck, but it is likely to be slow-going. I think that I would try to work a wood chisel blade under the gap until I could lever it up at several places around the filler flange. When he comes to refit it it is vital that he removes all the old sealer and applies new, this also applies to the top of the screw threads. The last thing you want is rain and leaky gate water finding its way into your fuel tank.

You're right, Tony - a photo might decide exactly what issue is preventing the filler cap from coming out. Or a couple of detailed, evenly lit photos.

 

Two things to add to my previous post. When removing any part with sealant on it, you need to be exceptionally careful to avoid fragments of stuff dropping into the tank. I used your suggested craft knife and also a spare hacksaw blade to attempt to separate the plates. Both created more sealant crumbs ready to block inlet pipes when in the tank. The big hammer approach (with cold chisel, perhaps a spare mooring pin might also work) was the best compromise in my case.

[MtB]

35 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

This is what we have  Just a simple bit of welding.

 

 

 

 

Easily defeated in five seconds with a cordless grinder...

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Easily defeated in five seconds with a cordless grinder...

 

 

As is pretty much any security on a boat, until you get up to big dog and then the dog has to time its attack well.

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Easily defeated in five seconds with a cordless grinder...

 

 

 

ie, exactly the same as the OPs new purchase.

(Cut the padlock or the hinge and you are 'in')

 

Nothing on a steel boat is beyond the capabilities of an angle grinder, all you can do is make your boat slightly harder to access than the next one along.

[Puffling]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

ie, exactly the same as the OPs new purchase.

(Cut the padlock or the hinge and you are 'in')

Properly fitted, the hinge can be removed and the locked section will still remain immovable. Owing to tight tolerances and a flat section in direct contact with the filler cap.

 

I should also add that even a tightly locked uPVC house door can be opened in a short time with a blowtorch. Just melt the damn thing out the frame. Several break-ins in Yorkshire successfully employed this method.

[Tony Brooks]

26 minutes ago, Puffling said:

You're right, Tony - a photo might decide exactly what issue is preventing the filler cap from coming out. Or a couple of detailed, evenly lit photos.

 

Two things to add to my previous post. When removing any part with sealant on it, you need to be exceptionally careful to avoid fragments of stuff dropping into the tank. I used your suggested craft knife and also a spare hacksaw blade to attempt to separate the plates. Both created more sealant crumbs ready to block inlet pipes when in the tank. The big hammer approach (with cold chisel, perhaps a spare mooring pin might also work) was the best compromise in my case.

 

I would not worry about bits of sealant getting into the tank, they will probably sink to the bottom to get removed when the boater "dewaters" the tank and will certainly be large enough for the fuel filter to catch. I would be more concerned about the bead of sealer that is probably around and down the hole in the deck, it that falls down and floats about it might be large enough to block a fuel pipe. I doubt many narrowboats have a strainer on the end of the pickup pipe to prevent this.

 

The brute force approach may well not work if the downstand on the filler is a good fit in the hole in the deck.

[BEngo]

I think if violence is needed to remove the existing filler, I would start by drilling the heads off the screws.  Most of that sort of filler have an M5 or 6 screw so a 5 mm drill is a good  starting point. 

 

Of course, if the screws are loose they will be a begger to drill.  A spot or two of super glue or bearing fit round each screw and allowed to set might hold them whist they are drilled out.

 

N

[LadyG]

I've laid a padlock and chain across my filler cap attached to another fixture, it would fool a casual scrote and means I always know where my chain is. My gasket is new, so cap requires a chisel to screw and unscrew it, keeps water out too!

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by LadyG

[rusty69]

I just remove the pipe from the fuel tank inside when not required and connect it to the toilet tank.

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I just remove the pipe from the fuel tank inside when not required and connect it to the toilet tank.

 

Do you leave a handy length of siphoning pipe close by ?

[Chris John]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Easily defeated in five seconds with a cordless grinder...

 

 

Oh another helpful comment! 

[rusty69]

18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Do you leave a handy length of siphoning pipe close by ?

No, but I do leave some Listermint. Well, it came with the engine. It's a shame to waste it.

2 minutes ago, Chris John said:

Oh another helpful comment! 

More helpful than yours.

Edited August 29, 2022 by rusty69

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, Chris John said:

Oh another helpful comment! 

 

Oh another helpful comment!

 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Oh another helpful comment!

 

 

Has he actually made any constructive or informative posts ?

Maybe he is just a serial criticiser seeking attention.

[rusty69]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Has he actually made any constructive or informative posts ?

Maybe he is just a serial criticiser seeking attention.

As long as it doesn't divert attention from me. I needs that attention. My doctor prescribed it for my narcissism.

 

I just checked my forum gender. It says i'm non-binary. Does that mean I have a digital ID?

Edited August 29, 2022 by rusty69

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

As long as it doesn't divert attention from me. I needs that attention. My doctor prescribed it for my narcissism.

 

Start wearing that rubber suit again and you'll get all the attention you want.

 

O' how I remember those days ...........................................

 

Remember how you slithered up the back of my boat like a drunken seal !

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Jen-in-Wellies]

10 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

 

I just checked my forum gender. It says i'm non-binary. Does that mean I have a digital ID?

Only if you changed your forum name to Ana Logue. 😀