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Hi all

 

First time poster so please be gentle with me!!

 

My wife and I are just finalising a liveaboard in Bristol and we're intending to make our boat as green as possible,

 

Just wanted to ask if anyone had done any or all of the following:

 

We're intending to install solar panels on the boat - anyone got any stories of installing such panels and any recommendations for makes/models/suppliers sources.

 

Solar panels are great in the summer but not so brilliant in the winter; so we're also intending to install a wind generator on the boat, too.  Again anyone installed a wind power generator...??  Makes/models/suppliers/sources would be wonderful.

 

Finally, we want to hook these up to a mass battery storage system.  Probably don't need anything as large as a Tesla Power Wall - just wondering if there is a marine version of a such a battery available...??  Again if anyone has installed such a thing on their boat we'd love to know what you've bought, how much did it cost, where did you get it from and would you recommend it...??

 

Anyone hooked all three things up together...??

 

Would take you (almost) entirely off grid, me thinks

 

Any help, comments and thoughts gratefully appreciated

 

 

 

Thanks

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Hi first time poster. Welcome to the forum. 

 

Unless your energy needs are very frugal, I would be surprised if you can manage to go totally 'green'  over the winter months unless you have a substantial turbine. 

 

What do you think your consumption needs will be? 

 

Its worth looking at Lifep04 batteries. 

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Two quick (brief) answers :

 

Virtually every boat on the waterways has solar panels fitted, theses can vary from a 100 watts to a mammoth installation of 5Kw, it all depends on the roof space available.

 

Virtually no boats on the waterways have Wind Generators fitted, the boats are too low down and 'sheltered' by buildings, dock walls, trees hills etc so cannot get a steady, constant wind - they are very noisy, and if the pole is fitted to the boat the vibrations will run all thru the boat.

 

If you give some details about your boat (roof size, any obstacles on the roof, etc etc) there are some very knowlegable livaboards who 'live on solar', who will be along, there are also some who 'know a lot' but have no actual experience, you will need to decide which group any respinder fits into.

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Welcome, sorry but this is just the latest iteration of your question.

 

Put the largest battery bank in the world in the boat but if you put less electricity back in, plus a bit more for charging inefficiency, than you take out you WILL end up with flat batteries.

 

Remember that the data for wind turbine maximum output are unlikely to be met inland and in Bristol harbour. Wind is not really a realistic option in most cases - just look at the wind speed required.

 

Please, please give this a lot more thought without rose-coloured glasses on. Find a marina with shore line connections, electricity from the national grid is far greener than any off grid source that you are likely to need in winter like a generator.

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For solar, ideally you want a boat with nice big gunnels so you can fill the roof with solar. Get rigid panels, as many as you can afford/fit on the roof, with mounts that tilt up to almost 90 degrees - really helps in winter with the low sun. Assuming it's a 50ft narrowboat, that amount of solar (1-2kw) still won't be enough for winter. I have 1kw which peaks at 10% of the rated power in winter.

 

You'll need to turn the fridge off in late Oct and back on in March, and you'll find that you need an additional form of charging in the darkest months - running your engine or a portable generator. If you're looking at being green, these two sources of power are not very efficient and are not 'green', depending on how you define green.

 

As mentioned above, wind turbines are useless, I know people who have them and they work for a few days a year. Only worth having if you're on the coast, or have a permanent mooring where you can put it on the land and get it up really high.

 

Lithium batteries are the way forwards for liveaboards, they accept charge way faster so you can make the most of short bursts of sun, the engine runtime is less and you can discharge them to about 10-20% without damage. They're also happy being sat in a state of partial discharge for eternity, unlike lead batteries which need to be brought to 100% every other day or so. However, for a proper lithium install, be prepared to pay £2-3k upwards. There is a facebook group which recommends a 'hybrid' method...don't do this!

Edited by cheesegas
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6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Why not? It works very well for me. And for Dr Bob on here.

 

 

And for me. We have been running on solar  (1kw) and hybrid lithium since march, and hope to continue to the end of October. 

 

They cover all our needs except for the washing machine. 

 

Haveing said that, it's only been 6 months, so maybe too early to pass judgement. 

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Apart from no sun in winter, and no usable wind in usual mooring locations; how do you intend to keep warm on the boat once the summer finishes?  If you're intending to use solid fuel then there's a whole new world of pain in balancing co2, particulates and convenience....

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If you are off grid, all the electricity you you has to be generated by some combination of solar, wind, your main propulsion engine or a generator. Of these, wind is all but useless on a canal boat and solar is good in summer but contributes little in winter. Battery systems do not create energy, only store it (and with less coming out than you put in). 

Your first step should be to do an energy audit to work out what your energy consumption will be, then plan around that. A search of the forum will find previous examples.

Edited by David Mack
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36 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Two quick (brief) answers :

 

Virtually every boat on the waterways has solar panels fitted, theses can vary from a 100 watts to a mammoth installation of 5Kw, it all depends on the roof space available.

 

Virtually no boats on the waterways have Wind Generators fitted, the boats are too low down and 'sheltered' by buildings, dock walls, trees hills etc so cannot get a steady, constant wind - they are very noisy, and if the pole is fitted to the boat the vibrations will run all thru the boat.

 

If you give some details about your boat (roof size, any obstacles on the roof, etc etc) there are some very knowlegable livaboards who 'live on solar', who will be along, there are also some who 'know a lot' but have no actual experience, you will need to decide which group any respinder fits into.

Take heed, especialy of the last sentence. When you ask questions on the forum you are best to add a bit asking how many years of full time liveaboard the reply poster has under his or her belt!! it is extremely relevant.

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4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Take heed, especialy of the last sentence. When you ask questions on the forum you are best to add a bit asking how many years of full time liveaboard the reply poster has under his or her belt!! it is extremely relevant.

Sorry to be disagreeable old chap, but I reckon people such as Tony Brooks and Nick Norman, who, as far as I am aware are not full time liveaboard are very worthwhile listening to. 

 

My 23 years liveaboard experience comes nowhere close to the knowledge they possess. 

 

Edited by rusty69
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20 minutes ago, MtB said:

Why not? It works very well for me. And for Dr Bob on here.

The hybrid method for those unaware is where a drop in lithium battery is put in parallel with the lead acid when the engine is running, and the stock alternator charges both, via a piece of long wire to limit the current. The FET-based BMS is then set to disable charging at a given voltage when the lithium is full.

 

The main issue I have with this is the lack of secondary high voltage cutoff; you're using the battery's high voltage BMS cutoff, which should be a last resort in case something goes wrong, to routinely end the charge cycle. FETs are known to fail shorted; having a secondary form of safety is important.

 

The BMS should control all the charge sources and thus charge termination via a data connection, with the high voltage cutoff (FET or contactor) being used in case of emergency.

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3 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

The hybrid method for those unaware is where a drop in lithium battery is put in parallel with the lead acid when the engine is running, and the stock alternator charges both, via a piece of long wire to limit the current. The FET-based BMS is then set to disable charging at a given voltage when the lithium is full.

 

The main issue I have with this is the lack of secondary high voltage cutoff; you're using the battery's high voltage BMS cutoff, which should be a last resort in case something goes wrong, to routinely end the charge cycle. FETs are known to fail shorted; having a secondary form of safety is important.

 

The BMS should control all the charge sources and thus charge termination via a data connection, with the high voltage cutoff (FET or contactor) being used in case of emergency.

This is of course the proper way of doing it and the way I do it. That said, the world isn’t perfect and people seem to cope with hybrid systems even though it upsets my sense of engineering good practice. But faced with a choice between horrid lead acid, or a botched but functional lithium hybrid system, I’d still go for the latter.

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I am all electric with LifePo4s, thats including drive motor, I have it turns out 4.8kw of solar, I also have a 6kw marine genny. Now my solar is split between drive and domestic, but in winter its all switched to domestic fo the most that does but occasionally it doesn't. For those days the genny takes the strain ie powering the dishwasher/washing machine, it runs a couple of chargers whenever it starts up for both banks of batteries. My genny doesn't get much exercise but it's nice to have it for emergencies which always happen. 

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7 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

This is of course the proper way of doing it and the way I do it. That said, the world isn’t perfect and people seem to cope with hybrid systems even though it upsets my sense of engineering good practice. But faced with a choice between horrid lead acid, or a botched but functional lithium hybrid system, I’d still go for the latter.

 

Fully agree, as long as I:

a. Understood the system

b. Could diagnose it with a basic meter.

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18 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Sorry to be disagreeable old chap, but I reckon people such as Tony Brooks and Nick Norman, who, as far as I am aware are not full time liveaboard are very worthwhile listening to. 

 

My 23 years liveaboard experience comes nowhere close to the knowledge they possess. 

 

Ahh yes, there are indeed some on here with some knowledge indeed. However, there are some, a couple in particular who post essays on every subject, as though they have a phd in the subject, whatever that subject is. One in particular, no names mentioned. I would still then like to know what, if any experience the replies come from. As a for instance I only listen to posts re Evs from people like @peterboatas he has a nice petrol engine in his :D

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Wow!  Didn’t expect to get this many replies!

 

Thank you all.

 

So the boat we’re buying is a 60ft Dutch barge with a flat top and tons of space for solar.  I should have said that I’m intending to connect this a lithium battery.  The place where we’ll be mooring has some good wind presence and I just wan to use some of that in winter when there is less sun.  I know that this will need augmenting with a generator of some description, too, which absolutely will not be green

 

Really appreciate the answers – thank you so much.

 

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Virtually every boat on the waterways has solar panels fitted, theses can vary from a 100 watts to a mammoth installation of 5Kw, it all depends on the roof space available.

 

More than a bit of an exaggeration, surely?

I've no idea what the actual percentage is, nor how you would find out, but a very significant percentage I would say have no solar.

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I can't help but think the OP may have been after recommendations such as

 

victron/bimblesolar/Valence /CALB/Rutland/midsummer energy/outback/morning star/tracer  etc etc

 

Not that I have any of these my panels iirc are panasonic/Sanyo bought second hand off ebay. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by rusty69
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34 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

More than a bit of an exaggeration, surely?

I've no idea what the actual percentage is, nor how you would find out, but a very significant percentage I would say have no solar.

About fifteen boats on our mooring, none with solar. I suspect a significant proportion of liveaboard boats now have solar, which is sensible, leisure ones much less. I certainly don't need it, and! I spend abour four months of the year on the boat. There again, it hadn't been invented when l lived on, either.

I do envy Peterboat his entire electric setup though. If my premium bond comes up...

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2 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

 

More than a bit of an exaggeration, surely?

I've no idea what the actual percentage is, nor how you would find out, but a very significant percentage I would say have no solar.

 

The discussion is about liveaboard boats, the discussion is about solar on liveaboards, but, yes maybe I could have been clearer and said :

 

"Virtually every liveaboard boat on the waterways has solar panels fitted",

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