Oil leak

[Mgt]

New to me at end of June 22 30ft trad stern NB. Going great till week 5 when morse control seized. RCR replaced the mechanism this morning (£455) and found an oil leak that requires the engine to be lifted (£££) to repair.  It appears the dip stick canal (?) has eroded and the tank is dry with all the oil  sitting in the bilge where the oil pump ( for changing the oil) sits. Advised it'll be a couple of weeks at least before parts/repair. 

My question is are oil fumes from the lake in the bilge hazardous to health? I can smell oil but may well be imagining it as the visual of the oil lake has impressed itself on my mind. 

I was planning staying on board to get get on with some decorating but wonder with such a small boat could I risk inhaling fumes. The bilge is under the bottom step in the cabin and maybe this seal is adequate to prevent circulating fumes 🤔 I have pics if relevant. I would appreciate any nugget of wisdom from an experienced boater. 

[Eeyore]

Post pictures of the oil spill and the source of the leak before committing to any work being undertaken!

The reasons will become apparent as this thread develops. 

A wild guess at your term "dip stick canal" would be the tube in which the dip stick fits. These are usually of the extended type fitted when the engine is marinised to make it easier to reach. Fitting the engine manufacturers original design into the hole in the crankcase is the easiest way to resolve the issue; it will just be a bit more difficult to reach. No justification whatsoever for lifting the engine if this is the issue.

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Eeyore

[Tracy D'arth]

Is this an hydraulic drive with ATF oil or an engine with engine oil leak? More details please. Some oil fumes are very bad, none are good for you!

 

What sort of oil?

You have an oil pump in the bilge? Very unusual, I hope it does not pump out into the canal.

 

Dip Stick Canal?   oil tank?  Don't understand.

[Alan de Enfield]

6 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

The reasons will become apparent as this thread develops. 

 

C'mon guys/gals there is a very small chance it is a coincidence.

[Mgt]

14 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

Post pictures of the oil spill and the source of the leak before committing to any work being undertaken!

The reasons will become apparent as this thread develops. 

A wild guess at your term "dip stick canal" would be the tube in which the dip stick fits. These are usually of the extended type fitted when the engine is marinised to make it easier to reach. Fitting the engine manufacturers original design into the hole in the crankcase is the easiest way to resolve the issue; it will just be a bit more difficult to reach. No justification whatsoever for lifting the engine if this is the issue.

 

Do these pictures describe the issue better?

[Mgt]

13 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Is this an hydraulic drive with ATF oil or an engine with engine oil leak? More details please. Some oil fumes are very bad, none are good for you!

 

What sort of oil?

You have an oil pump in the bilge? Very unusual, I hope it does not pump out into the canal.

 

Dip Stick Canal?   oil tank?  Don't understand.

Maybe that area - see picture - is not afterall called the bilge?

[Tony Brooks]

If you are talking about the oil in the drip tray (bilge) it should be so cool there is little chance of fumes. If there are any fumes or smoke it is more likely to be oil leaking onto very hot parts of the engine, or crankcase fumes from a very worn engine.

 

If by "tank" you mean the engine sump then I find a leak from the dipstick tube questionable, more likely a leak from the oil drain pump pipe, but I can't see enough to be sure. if the sump is dry for goodness’s sake do not run the engine unless you refill it.

[Mgt]

13 minutes ago, Mgt said:

Do these pictures describe the issue better?

Thanks! Good to no no danger from fumes 😅 Yes the engineer was very specific about not starting the engine as follows:
"Replaced the Morse controller with a new Morse controller started engine to check if operational tested okay, noticed oil light flashing checked oil no oil in engine upon further investigation and found dipstick tube has worn through on the bottom of boat. Possible engine lift out to rectify problem.
Advisories:
Advised not to use engine and not to move Boat, the engine needs to come out to resolve the oil dip stick tube issue."

[Eeyore]

Ok, first picture: you have an oil extraction pump lying in the bilge; this is supposed to be attached to the engine.

This will no doubt have contributed to the oil in the bilge, as will the remote oil filter (if you don't put something under it to catch the oil when you change it).

Second picture: not sure what that pipe and two hole flange does; but it shouldn't be rubbing against anything (engine bearers?). This would suggest the engine has dropped on its mounts; either a failed mount, or if you are lucky just come loose on the adjuster.

[Eeyore]

That pipe enters the sump at the wrong angle to be a dip stick tube. A picture of the engine from above would be useful.

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

When mine dumped all the oil into the bilge it turned out the fitting that fixed the tube to the oil drain pump had come loose. It fell off as soon someone touched it. It just had to be screwed back in. Various engineers suggested everything from a major rebuild to lifting the engine out.

And £455 to replace a Morse mechanism? What do they mean by the mechanism, ie what did they actually do? You have to be a bit careful with some of the RCR blokes, though some are great.

[Tony Brooks]

13 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

Ok, first picture: you have an oil extraction pump lying in the bilge; this is supposed to be attached to the engine.

This will no doubt have contributed to the oil in the bilge, as will the remote oil filter (if you don't put something under it to catch the oil when you change it).

Second picture: not sure what that pipe and two hole flange does; but it shouldn't be rubbing against anything (engine bearers?). This would suggest the engine has dropped on its mounts; either a failed mount, or if you are lucky just come loose on the adjuster.

 

Did you notice that flanged pipe seems to have a fair old ding in the bend, I wonder if that is the leak, but I agree it enters the sump at a very off angle for a dipstick - horizontally!

 

Also agree that crankcase pressure could force oil from that pump with it laying in the bilge.

[Mgt]

Thanks the engineer replaced what I understand to be the whole assembly - lever stick, and associated nuts and bolts attaching it the the panel. Prior to it seizing I had unwrapped the centre line from the prop shaft ( if this is relevant?). The engineer appeared very thorough and professional and he did say that he didn't know why the replaced unit had seized up because it looked new. He also said that the Nanni engine was new to this boat. 

I forgot to ask him about fumes but it seems this is not an issue.

12 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

That pipe enters the sump at the wrong angle to be a dip stick tube. A picture of the engine from above would be useful.

 

 

Pic from above 

[Tony Brooks]

FWIW Nanni tend to paint their marnsiations of Kubota engines blue, Beta paint their marinisations of Kubota engines for canal boats green.

 

You have a number of "tanks" and pipes there that I do not recognise/understand.

 

It looks as if the oil drain pump outlet has a screw cap so my comment about oil leaking from that is less likely to apply. but it may still leak between the body and piston shaft.

 

I am afraid the new photo does not help me work out what the flanged pipe is for.

 

 

[Eeyore]

That appears to be a Nanni marinised Kubota Z600 or ZB600; I'll take a walk to the marina to have a look at mine.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Eeyore

[Eeyore]

8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

FWIW Nanni tend to paint their marnsiations of Kubota engines blue, Beta paint their marinisations of Kubota engines for canal boats green.

 

You have a number of "tanks" and pipes there that I do not recognise/understand.

 

It looks as if the oil drain pump outlet has a screw cap so my comment about oil leaking from that is less likely to apply. but it may still leak between the body and piston shaft.

 

I am afraid the new photo does not help me work out what the flanged pipe is for.

 

 

I have seen several of these engines (including mine) where the heat exchanger core has been removed to convert them to keel cooled. They all look similar, so the work was probably carried out by the supplier. Pictures to follow. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Eeyore

[Eeyore]

Every days a school day!

The oil level is somewhere between the bend in the tube and the sump gasket, so the flexible dip stick doesn't need to go around the bend. The main bearing sub assemblies used in this type of construction means that the sump gasket is below the throw of the crank.

Is anyone else wondering where the engine mounting leg is?

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

34 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

The oil level is somewhere between the bend in the tube and the sump gasket, so the flexible dip stick doesn't need to go around the bend.

 

Thanks, as you say, every day is a school day, but that tube loos far too large for a dipstick.

[Eeyore]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Thanks, as you say, every day is a school day, but that tube loos far too large for a dipstick.

The (red) end of the dip stick can be seen top right of my second photo; not visible in the OPs photo because it is obscured by the fuel filter at the angle the photo was taken.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Eeyore

[Cheshire cat]

Well done Eeyore. So for some reason the engine has dropped allowing the dip stick tube to vibrate on the engine bearer? Surely the prop will be badly out of alignment too. 

 

Interesting that RCR chappie walked away. I thought they were meant to get you mobile again.

[ditchcrawler]

3 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

Well done Eeyore. So for some reason the engine has dropped allowing the dip stick tube to vibrate on the engine bearer? Surely the prop will be badly out of alignment too. 

 

Interesting that RCR chappie walked away. I thought they were meant to get you mobile again.

He has got to order the new engine first,

 

If the engine mounting isn't sorted it will go again very quickly, as for repair I would say a weld or braze would sort it

Edited August 22, 2022 by ditchcrawler
I like adding bits

[Arthur Marshall]

15 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

Well done Eeyore. So for some reason the engine has dropped allowing the dip stick tube to vibrate on the engine bearer? Surely the prop will be badly out of alignment too. 

 

Interesting that RCR chappie walked away. I thought they were meant to get you mobile again.

I've had a couple out who walked off, one who genuinely did his best but gave up, and one who just looked, said he knew nothing about Listers, and went home - that after I'd stressed it was a Lister gearbox problem to RCR and offered the bloke the manual and pointed to what needed doing. Both times I ended up calling out someone I knew instead. Other times, they've been great.

[Eeyore]

15 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

Well done Eeyore. So for some reason the engine has dropped allowing the dip stick tube to vibrate on the engine bearer? Surely the prop will be badly out of alignment too. 

 

Interesting that RCR chappie walked away. I thought they were meant to get you mobile again.

On my (blue) engine you can see the tube pass under the engine leg, but there is no sign of one on the OPs (green) engine.

The engine in mine is very heavy at the front and both front legs had fractures and evidence of earlier repair attempts. The new reinforced legs haven't been on long enough to evaluate yet.

[enigmatic]

A question I'm surprised others haven't asked: how much solar power do you have and how much power are you expecting to use whilst living/decorating? (Or do you have a separate generator?)

 

It's summer, so solar panels should produce some power, but a couple of weeks without being able to charge batteries from the engine alternator could run them down

 

 

That might be more of a concern than the oil in your drip tray (which is a lot more than usual, but a lot of boats have oil under their engine all year round...)

[Bee]

Where are you?