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Newbie solo; experience needed?


mickyh

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There has been a reference to the use of radios. I am not sure if the distinction between the VHF radios that can be used on rivers and such, and the little radios used by boaters to communicate whilst doing locks, has been made clear.  Was PD1964 referring to the lattter and Steve B referring to the former?

(Note: I believe the former needs the operator to be qualified.)

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If the OP wants to gain experience of locks they could always volunteer with the CRT at his nearest 'manned' locks. I was recently talking to a couple at Venetian marina whose only experience prior to purchasing their boat was every weekend for 6 months volunteer Vlockies.The only NBs  they had been on were the sale boats at Crick. 

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19 hours ago, MrsM said:

Welcome to the OP. If you are very new to boating I suspect a Helmsman course might help build your confidence. We didn't do one when we bought because we had both a bit of experience before (me a little, husband a lot). Otherwise I definitely would have. Keep in mind that all boats handle differently and can be affected by conditions in different ways - water depth, wind etc. I'm going to be very honest (and open myself up to a fair bit of banter) and say that it is only this year (3rd season, 1000 hours in) that I have felt properly confident handling my boat. Previously I've had to concentrate really hard - a bit like when you are learning to drive a car. Now it feels much more second nature. Don't worry about having to be an expert overnight. People are generally very helpful and forgiving. Go for it - and hopefully you will love it as much as we do.

Agreed.

Experience takes time, so it s not the easy bits that are of continued interest.

I've been on board three years singlehanded, but very slow and steady due to my nature ( a single engine boat is not "safe") and my age.

You don't build experience of hazardous situations in a few weeks. You don't recognise them in a few trips.

I enter locks slowly, but that is cos I want to assess situation and the bluddy boat won't do as I demand!

Opening throttle full forward then astern is no use for narrowboats. To

 

 

Edited by LadyG
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Thanks for all the advice everyone.  There clearly a huge amount I need to consider, and whether its some kind of hiring/helmsman course or volounteering at a lock (not something I'd thought of) I think I need to get some experience.  This forum has a wealth of info, which actually has made things perhaps more daunting, but it's good to know what you're letting yourself into!

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32 minutes ago, mickyh said:

Thanks for all the advice everyone.  There clearly a huge amount I need to consider, and whether its some kind of hiring/helmsman course or volounteering at a lock (not something I'd thought of) I think I need to get some experience.  This forum has a wealth of info, which actually has made things perhaps more daunting, but it's good to know what you're letting yourself into!

It depends on your age experience and nature.

Personally, I've been out in survival conditions offshore sailing, ridden racehorses which are ready to bolt, ice axed up the Cairngorms, not really raised a heartbeat.

Maybe it's cos I'm older, but narrow boating is scarier. I'll get over it, probably. I think it's cos my  limbs won't react as quickly..

PS I had to leap on to boat when I inadvertently kisked it in to gear, and I was on land. I made it, all ended well. No one died, no one would have died.

Edited by LadyG
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33 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

What would have happened if you had missed your leap and gone in to the water with the boat in gear, might there had been a different outcome?

I was pretty sure I would make it, otherwise I'd not have jumped.

Fifty years ago I used to ride racehorses sixty years ago I used to race Austin sevens, remember them?

I'm fairly risk averse lol

 

 

Edited by LadyG
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Just now, LadyG said:

I was pretty sure I would make it, otherwise I'd not have jumped 

 

 

So was a friend of ours, coming out of Dukes Lock into Castlefield Basin many years ago. He took a flying leap at the boat (which was quite a way from the bank), hit the side with a thud and slid down it into the water, just like you see on the cartoons...

 

The situation was greatly improved by the fact that it was a sunny August day and there were loads of people on the new footbridge over the basin to clap and cheer when this happened, and then he took about four tries to get out onto the bank and lay there gasping like a drowned rat.

 

The only things hurt in the making of this film were the dignity of the idiot concerned, and a bruised hip when someone on the boat caught the table while running to get their camera... 😉

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11 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

No it’s not it just telling it how it is.

To be fair the people you describe probably need that helmsman course because they never leave the marina! A couple next to me in the marina are just like that. They had me aboard and waffled on about how they had a yacht in france and drove an aston martin blah blah They've had their new build boat (their first) for several years and in the few months I've had mine I've already gone further out than them... For some it just seems like an alternative to a static caravan... 

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5 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

There has been a reference to the use of radios. I am not sure if the distinction between the VHF radios that can be used on rivers and such, and the little radios used by boaters to communicate whilst doing locks, has been made clear.  Was PD1964 referring to the lattter and Steve B referring to the former?

(Note: I believe the former needs the operator to be qualified.)

 I was referring to the latter, the little Walkie-Talkie types you used to play at soldiers with when you were kids. 
Interesting that @Steve Buxton said the following “We have had two"adventures" in the boat so far where it would have been useful to call for assistance” not a very good start if it would of been useful to call for assistance. Obviously nothing requiring real emergency assistance, just lack of experience and not knowing what to do, even though he has done all the courses.

Edited by PD1964
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40 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

 I was referring to the latter, the little Walkie-Talkie types you used to play at soldiers with when you were kids. 
Interesting that @Steve Buxton said the following “We have had two"adventures" in the boat so far where it would have been useful to call for assistance” not a very good start if it would of been useful to call for assistance. Obviously nothing requiring real emergency assistance, just lack of experience and not knowing what to do, even though he has done all the courses.

Fat lot if good using one of the non-licensed walkie-talkies to call for help would be unless someone close by had a pair set up exactly the same, very unlikely in my view. A mobile phone would be far more certain on the Trent.

 

If he mans proper licensed marina hand helds then it needs someone within range on listening watch, and we know CaRT lock keepers do not always keep listening watch on the locks' frequency.

 

Seems apart from the skills and knowledge I listed earlier, it seem the course did not do a particularly good job of preparing for boating on a major river.

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25 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Fat lot if good using one of the non-licensed walkie-talkies to call for help would be unless someone close by had a pair set up exactly the same, very unlikely in my view.

 

I think the comment was refering to the 'walkie-talkies' used by couples working the locks, lock wheeling etc.

And very useful they are too - particularly at the likes of Middlewich where you are waiting to go under the bridge and into 'Maureens' lock and have no idea if the lock is empty, or in use, or someone is coming down - yoir crew walk under the bridge and can call you when it is your turn, and the lock ready.

 

Called 'PMR446' they typicaly have around 8 or 16 channels and a range of 3 miles or so (or more depending on the conditions)

 

Motorola TALKABOUT T92 two-way radios | Onedirect.co.uk

 

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I think the comment was refering to the 'walkie-talkies' used by couples working the locks, lock wheeling etc.

And very useful they are too - particularly at the likes of Middlewich where you are waiting to go under the bridge and into 'Maureens' lock and have no idea if the lock is empty, or in use, or someone is coming down - yoir crew walk under the bridge and can call you when it is your turn, and the lock ready.

 

Called 'PMR446' they typicaly have around 8 or 16 channels and a range of 3 miles or so (or more depending on the conditions)

 

Motorola TALKABOUT T92 two-way radios | Onedirect.co.uk

 

 

I agree, good for what they do but in no way much good in an emergency.

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On 20/08/2022 at 23:44, Wanderer Vagabond said:

They might have an official limit, but we have taken our 60 footer on all of them (although we did need to take the bow and stern fenders off for a few locks). Offhand I think our tightest turnaround was in the Dewsbury Arm on the Calder and Hebble which was supposed to be 58' but they must have measured it with an elastic tape measure;).

I'm on the Calder and Hebble, 57ft, and some of the locks are short, there is no room for two. Going up the boat sitting diagonally till over the cill at front, when there is 57 ft! something to be alert to when going down! A very kind local lady insisted she and her family would put me through a pair of locks,  Salterhebble basin, and I was very grateful, I don't think the guide books mentioned these shorter locks. 

Looking at the number of hire boats which are in this area, boat handling is quite an easy thing to learn, and just take it easy for a while, well actually best to take it easy all the time, it's supposed to be relaxing, and it generally is uneventful.

Edited by LadyG
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1 hour ago, PD1964 said:

 I was referring to the latter, the little Walkie-Talkie types you used to play at soldiers with when you were kids. 
Interesting that @Steve Buxton said the following “We have had two"adventures" in the boat so far where it would have been useful to call for assistance” not a very good start if it would of been useful to call for assistance. Obviously nothing requiring real emergency assistance, just lack of experience and not knowing what to do, even though he has done all the courses.

How can you know what the two "adventures" were? The first was the steering bracket snapping leaving us without steering and control of the engine, and the second was the failure of the propeller on the outboard, leaving us with no power. Not a life threatening emergency but certainly a situation where assistance from another boat would have been extremely useful (and was in the second case).

18 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I agree, good for what they do but in no way much good in an emergency.

I agree - which is why I went to the trouble of doing the RYA Short Range VHF course and buying a handset (and of course getting a licence).

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52 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Fat lot if good using one of the non-licensed walkie-talkies to call for help would be unless someone close by had a pair set up exactly the same, very unlikely in my view. A mobile phone would be far more certain on the Trent.

 

If he mans proper licensed marina hand helds then it needs someone within range on listening watch, and we know CaRT lock keepers do not always keep listening watch on the locks' frequency.

 

Seems apart from the skills and knowledge I listed earlier, it seem the course did not do a particularly good job of preparing for boating on a major river.

 

16 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I agree, good for what they do but in no way much good in an emergency.

Yes I’m talking about Walkie-Talkie type. @Steve Buxton is on about the more offshore Licensed VHF radios, which he has been on a course to use. He said “it would of been useful to call for assistance” I don’t know by what means he was thinking of using, I presume VHF,   He would of been better off with a mobile as every time I do the non tidal Trent, the lock keepers always say to give them a call on the mobile and give out cards with the locks mobile number, even going to Keadby “give me a ring when going under the motorway bridge and I’ll have the lock ready”📞🤙

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13 minutes ago, Steve Buxton said:

How can you know what the two "adventures" were? The first was the steering bracket snapping leaving us without steering and control of the engine, and the second was the failure of the propeller on the outboard, leaving us with no power. Not a life threatening emergency but certainly a situation where assistance from another boat would have been extremely useful (and was in the second case).

 

I don’t because you never said. We were talking about VHF radios, I take it you would of used VHF to call other boats? Did you? 

Edited by PD1964
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In this day and age one inland waters the mobile phone is probably the best aid, probably a better signal, but on commercial waters it's a good idea to keep a listening watch on VHF, making sure you know which channels are in use, of course, and be aware of likely local movement of boats the size of Exol Pride ( her movements can be checked on a boat finder.com website or a marinetraffic.com website). Technology rocks!

Edited by LadyG
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11 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

I don’t because you never said. We were talking about VHF radios, I take it you would of used VHF to call other boats? Did you? 

If I had had the radio at the time I would have tried. Obviously there is no guarantee that any one would pick up the call, but in the area of the River Trent where I am there does seem to be quite a number of boaters who use VHF to contact the locks. We have a number of large busy locks nearby and I believe that a number of the larger boats do tend to go downstream onto the tidal sections (I am not brave enough for that yet).  It certainly would be worth a try. I imagine that on 90% of inland waterways there would be no real benefit in having a VHF radio.

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I dunno what your budget is but I'd suggest something with a modern engine (kubota or Yanmar based), fixed bed with a proper mattress is an absolute must if you're living on it, have a think about what type of toilet you might find least unpalatable to deal with - in my experience fancy pants electric flushing with a macerator into a large holding tank toilets are anathema but others prefer them to cassette type, with which there's much less to potentially go wrong but you'd need to deal with the waste more often. Forget separator loos if you're tempted, they don't really work on the canals. Reverse layout or not, stern/bow type, fuel & water tankage (especially water, ideally I think I'd be looking for 600 litres plus for FT liveaboard). Heating - again in my experience and opinion keep it simple, maybe a solid fuel stove or drip feed diesel in the middle of the boat (not at one end or the other), maybe if you must a radiator at either end and in the bathroom for occasional use in really cold weather? A lot of it depends on you & how much "luxury" you want, how much stuff you need to have around you, etc. but it's a massive help if you're practical and confident with tools, interested in how engines work, doing a bit of woodwork/DIY, painting and if you enjoy watching people do something on Youtube before having a go at doing it yourself!

 

Really, really try to get your head around 12 & 240 volt electrics, batteries, solar power, use of inverters, etc. on boats. Being a sea boater it was a great surprise to me that many canal boaters seem to me to be obsessed with using domestic 240v appliances whilst cruising/away from shore power on their boat - you can do without 240v appliances and if you do it will be much easier to manage your power on board.

 

Go have a look at some boats to start to get a feel, anything upwards of 40 odd feet. If it was me as a single FT liveaboard I'd be aiming for around 45 - 50 feet but I've lived on much smaller sailboats and been quite happy. Good luck...

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