Newbie solo; experience needed?

[mickyh]

Hello all

 

My 1st of hopefully many contributions to this forum.  I'm starting my research into becoming a continuous cruiser.  My situation is that I have a property with a lot of equity, and I'm thinking of buying a narrowboat to live on as a continuous cruiser, and then to live off the remaining equity/investments, plus some work from home.

 

The finances are something I think I can work out; there's a lot of info out there thankfully.  However this is obviously a big jump, and I'd like some general advice on how I would go about getting some experience beforehand.  Now I'd be going it alone, so hiring seems very difficult as a newbie particularly.  Also most of the finances are tried up in the property. I'm thinking a helmsman course, plus maybe some other relevant courses?

 

I've spent time travelling alone, and had a number of sailing holidays, but no narrowboat experience as yet.  So any advice much appreciated, even if it's to tell me you're mad, don't do it!

 

By the way my reason for the change isn't financial, it a lifestyle thing, fed up of earning money just to buy stuff and pay for a house.  I am also aware it's not a walk in the park, particularly over winter!

[Mike Hurley]

You are not mad, do it. Top right of the page is the search box, type in helmsman course, good thread with lots of info.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Mike Hurley

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Go for it.

I had no experience of Narrowboats until I bought one. 
What length boat you thinking of?
 

Winter is fine as long as you’re prepared for it. 
And it’s much nicer travelling.

Peaceful when the tourists have left. 
 

 

[mickyh]

Early days with regards to those sort of decisions!  I'm assuming the longer the boat the harder to navigate, and find mooring, and more expensive?  I was thinking probably 55-60ft, just so I could have a separate berth, and maybe a dinette space to work along side the salon.

[Richard10002]

Before buying a narrowboat in 2011 I had over 30 years experience of sailing on the high seas, including a few years in the Merchant Navy, and sailing my own boat from UK to Malta and back between 2006 and 2009.

 

In order to help my wife with some of the goings on on flat water, we did an Inland Waterways Helmsans Course in 2006. I learned a lot, including reversing, a few knots that I didnt previously know, and that you can walk ashore on many canals, if you fall in

 

We did it over 2 days, but I'd guess you could extend this if you wanted to be on the boat for longer.

 

Highly recommended. I also did a one day diesel engine course, which was invaluable.

[Arthur Marshall]

21 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Go for it.

I had no experience of Narrowboats until I bought one. 
What length boat you thinking of?
 

Winter is fine as long as you’re prepared for it. 
And it’s much nicer travelling.

Peaceful when the tourists have left. 
 

 

Nor did I, apart from one short and disastrous holiday on which I found I loved it. I got told about driving on the right on my first trip, and that I needed more than one battery when I ran it down and couldn't start.

I don't know why people think driving the things is hard, at 3mph even problems tend to happen slowly (apart from in locks). The only thing that takes practice is turning the thing round. Everything else is fairly logical and simple.

And boats are warmer than houses in winter.

[mickyh]

It's not the cold in the boat that would concern me, more the hours cruising in cold wet conditions, and doing lock/swing bridges solo in those conditions!  I know people do it though.

10 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Before buying a narrowboat in 2011 I had over 30 years experience of sailing on the high seas, including a few years in the Merchant Navy, and sailing my own boat from UK to Malta and back between 2006 and 2009.

 

In order to help my wife with some of the goings on on flat water, we did an Inland Waterways Helmsans Course in 2006. I learned a lot, including reversing, a few knots that I didnt previously know, and that you can walk ashore on many canals, if you fall in

 

We did it over 2 days, but I'd guess you could extend this if you wanted to be on the boat for longer.

 

Highly recommended. I also did a one day diesel engine course, which was invaluable.

Where was the diesel engine course, that's definitely something I consider?

 

[Steve Buxton]

14 minutes ago, mickyh said:

It's not the cold in the boat that would concern me, more the hours cruising in cold wet conditions, and doing lock/swing bridges solo in those conditions!  I know people do it though.

Where was the diesel engine course, that's definitely something I consider?

 

Both the Helmsman Course and the Diesel Engine Course are available at Debdale Wharf Marina in Leicestershire. My wife and I did the helmsman's course and it was excellent.  nbsc.org.uk 

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, mickyh said:

Where was the diesel engine course, that's definitely something I consider?

 

 

I used to run them for River Canal Rescue plus Boaters' Electrical courses. These were held at a variety of locations over two days. However, I retired, and I don't think the people who took over from me for RCR still run them. There is still the RYA courses, but I found from student feed back that they were variable in the extreme. More a franchise system where the RYA took fees and did little quality control apart from requiring those wishing to deliver such courses to pay for and attend one from the RYA. I think that personal recommendations for a particular RYA course and tutor would now be your best bet UNLESS RCR still offer their winter "service your boat under supervision" offering. There is likely to be a great deal of difference in course delivery from those who are professionally trained and qualified for such roles and those who have done a 1 or 2 day "trainers" course.

 

You will find the course notes I wrote for the courses on my website (tb-training.co.uk) and you are free to print them out section by section and to ask here or email me directly for advice.

 

I would caution you to wary about making it difficult or impossible to return to land living when boating becomes too difficult.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[Barneyp]

Some hire companies will hire to single handers, but they will want you to have canal experience (locks are the place you are most likely to damage/sink their boats).

Could you hire a boat for a holiday with a friend to get enough experience to do a solo hire - then you'll get real experience of single handing through locks and swing bridges etc. I've done it, it possible and I found it enjoyable.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Barneyp

[mickyh]

8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I used to run them for River Canal Rescue plus Boaters' Electrical courses. These were held at a variety of locations over two days. However, I retired, and I don't think the people who took over from me for RCR still run them. There is still the RYA courses, but I found from student feed back that they were variable in the extreme. More a franchise system where the RYA took fees and did little quality control apart from requiring those wishing to deliver such courses to pay for and attend one from the RYA. I think that personal recommendations for a particular RYA course and tutor would now be your best bet UNLESS RCR still offer their winter "service your boat under supervision" offering. There is likely to be a great deal of difference in course delivery from those who are professionally trained and qualified for such roles and those who have done a 1 or 2 day "trainers" course.

 

You will find the course notes I wrote for the courses on my website (tb-training.co.uk) and you are free to print them out section by section and to ask here or email me directly for advice.

 

I would caution you to wary about making it difficult or impossible to return to land living when boating becomes too difficult.

Thanks Tony, much appreciated.  Yes the return to land living if things don't work out is something I definitely need to consider.  I would hope I'll be able to retain funds to at least ease back onto land living if needed, although the longer afloat the less that would be!

[Barneyp]

42 minutes ago, mickyh said:

Early days with regards to those sort of decisions!  I'm assuming the longer the boat the harder to navigate, and find mooring, and more expensive?  I was thinking probably 55-60ft, just so I could have a separate berth, and maybe a dinette space to work along side the 

Assuming similar age and condition longer boats are more expensive, upto 57-60 foot, then they start to come down in price as there are some canals longer boats won't fit on.

 

In terms of maintenance costs do not go up in proportion to length, you still only have one engine, fridge, cooker, water pump etc on a longer boat. Painting/blacking will be more expensive as there is more to paint.

 

Mooring is easier in a shorter boat because it will fit in more spaces.

 

Navigation (including the act of mooring ) is a bit harder in a longer boat, but a 60ft boat is not anywhere near twice as hard to operate as a 30ft boat, but it will have more than twice as much cabin space.

[Tony Brooks]

FWIW I have always found longer boats to be easier to handle than shorter ones. I would suggest something in the 50 to 57 ft size is optimum.

[IanD]

50 minutes ago, mickyh said:

Early days with regards to those sort of decisions!  I'm assuming the longer the boat the harder to navigate, and find mooring, and more expensive?  I was thinking probably 55-60ft, just so I could have a separate berth, and maybe a dinette space to work along side the salon.

57' is a popular length, long enough to have enough space for what you want and short enough to go pretty much anywhere on the system (some canals in the North have locks where 57' is the official limit).

[Barneyp]

1 hour ago, mickyh said:

Thanks Tony, much appreciated.  Yes the return to land living if things don't work out is something I definitely need to consider.  I would hope I'll be able to retain funds to at least ease back onto land living if needed, although the longer afloat the less that would be!

The ideal solution to the problem is to keep a residential property and rent it out, even if only a flat.

There have been some sad stories of permanent liveaboards not being able to afford the return to land living when there health deteriorates.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Barneyp

[mickyh]

Just now, Barneyp said:

The ideal solution to the problem is to keep a residential property and rent it out, even of only a flat.

There have been some sad stories of permanent liveaboards not being able to afford the return to land living when there health deteriorates.

Yeah I'm looking into the finances of that, it would be a question of whether I'd have the capital to do that, and get the boat I want ( with an emergency fund!).

[cuthound]

According to their website RCR still offer group and 121 courses.

 

https://shop.rivercanalrescue.co.uk/Courses/CourseLanding.aspx

 

When I bought my boat I got RCR to do a 121 course on my boat. The tutor was excellent and I serviced my boat under his instruction. I had (30 years previously) maintained my own cars, so it was more of a confidence building refresher. Because he had time left over he also showed me how to maintain the Webasto which was also useful.

[Ianws]

I don't think they are good at updating their website. The info for the group courses is there but there are no upcoming dates  I think I attended the last engine maintenance course they held in Jan 2020. They had already decided to stop them before Covid came along. 

[blackrose]

I did the RYA helmsman's course. It's ok but they don't know much about being single handed on a big boat - at least not the guy that did our course. There was one bloke on the course living on a 38m dutch barge. When the instructor told us that one method of getting a stuck boat off a mudbank was to get the crew to stand on the other side we both looked at each other with raised eyebrows.

 

It's still worth doing the course but after a year of single handing you'll probably know more than the instructor about how to do it. 

 

Once you've got a boat, my recommendation is that you ask here for an experienced single hander to join you for a couple of locks (uphill & downhill). You take the boat through the locks single handed under his/her instruction and they only step in if you really need it 

Edited August 20, 2022 by blackrose

[The Gravy Boater]

Welcome to the forum.

 

The only experience of boating I had when I started was childhood holidays and it was also at the start of lockdown, so no courses were available even if you wanted one.  As has been mentioned handling a boat is the easy bit but if you lack confidence your best bet is just to set yourself a cruising goal and get out there... for, reasons, I had to move my boat half way across the country with zero experience... no-one died, only had one significant bump and it wasn't into another boat (might have been less damaging if it had been).  Solo boating is easy... 9 times out of 10 other boaters will help you when needed but it's always polite not to assume this will be the case. That said, if you have the time and money to do courses there is certainly no harm in it.  I may well have bad habits that have never been questioned.

 

57' is probably the most typical narrowboat length.  If you don't need the space a shorter boat can be handy for turning where other boats cannot.  Mooring and your licence are also charged by the foot, of course.

 

Maybe I'm weird but winter is actually the best bit as far as I'm concerned. 

[PD1964]

Hi, a Helmsman course will teach you by the book, better off having a day with an experienced single hander. If he knows his stuff he will also show you the basics of engine maintenance, as well to how different it is being single handed, doing locks and various other things you pick up. Don’t be over worried, it’s not difficult handling a Narrowboat.

  Where are you in the country?

Edited August 20, 2022 by PD1964

[mickyh]

I’m in Kent, not ideally located for cruising! 

[PD1964]

17 minutes ago, mickyh said:

I’m in Kent, not ideally located for cruising! 

Yes not many canals that way, but as I say don’t worry about it, you can waste your money doing Helmsman courses, be shown how to do knots, how to do a lock, reverse and how to enter a tunnel, but nothing is that difficult if your fit and have common sense. I know more people that have not done a Helmsman course, than those that have, which are usually well to do middle class couples buying a brand new boat, then they’ll have their life jackets on and only communicate with hand held radios 5ft apart. Just do it and don’t read too much into it. If anything just go and hire a boat in October/November, normally a quiet time but very enjoyable.

Edited August 20, 2022 by PD1964

[LadyG]

I've got a 57ft boat trad, and I use the diner table as a desk it makes the boat seem more spacious . Though wider boats are better for that  not suggesting a 60x12 monster 😁

[Tony1]

 

Just a few random thoughts:

 

1. It's such a huge investment in every way that I'd definitely try a week's holiday first. It's not likely, but there is always a small chance you just won't like it very much. 

 

2. I got a 50ft boat because the price was great and it wasnt very old, and now I would really like 57-60ft. 

The storage constraints are pretty sever compared to a house, and its made worse by the fact that you have to get loads and loads of boat-related tools and gear that takes up a lot of the space available. Forget about the manouvering advantages of a 50 footer. The space advantages of a 58 footer far outweigh the manouverability issue. 

 

3. I took no courses of any sort and probably saved hundred and hundreds, but then I did bump into a few things on my first cruise, so you know. Horses for courses... 

To get going you only need to know a couple of knots (including how to tie up the front and back ends of the boat), and you can pick up other stuff as you go. 

I learned what little I do know of knots on youtube tbh.

 

4. As Goliath said above, don't fear the winter. The waterways are lovely in winter, even if sometimes a bit desolate in aspect, and with so few boats moving there is a real sense of peace. It makes a lovely contrast with the madness of summer. 

A few basic precautions will see you right. Just get some very thick gloves (I cheat and use electrically heated ones), two or three pairs of socks (especially with wellies on, as they let in the cold air), thermal leggings under your trousers, and several layers on your torso, and you'll be warm for hours. 

The snag comes if you have to work a lock when you're so heavily wrapped up- the slightest exertion has me sweating under all the layers, so be ready to ditch the outer two layers at locks. 

The only time winter gets a bit annoying for me is when it rains on the days I want to cruise. 

 

5. You might get the idea that the cowboy hat is mandatory for boaters over the age of 55. This is not the case.

Always remember the cowboy hat is optional. I prefer a Sherlock Holmes style deerstalker.