Approach to newbies

[Balloon]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

Bit late now but it would do some men good to lock horns with the doughty lasses who did all sorts of "mens" jobs in WW2. I may well have changed their thoughts about how capable women are. FWIW I was told by someone who worked there that when CAV were building injectors by selective assembly they would not employ men on the needle and nozzle line because most simply never had the deftness of touch to feel the perfect fit. (Bet they did not pay them a premium though!)

Completely agree with you. The sad thing is, before that time women wouldn’t have thought they could have managed those jobs. Why? Because men taught them they couldn’t. At least they were given the opportunity to see how capable they were. Some (a subsection of) men have been doing their best to make sure women know their place again ever since. 

[Tony1]

22 minutes ago, Balloon said:

They really really can’t, can they? 

 

I lay awake nights imagining life with a woman who actually likes doing engine services, painting, or fixing electrics....

Why aren't there more of you about? 

The way I see it, engine work is work - nasty work too.

And all work is bad, and the less of it that I have to do, the happier I generally am. 

 

But on a more serious note, I am optimistic that the younger generations are beginning to break out of the stereotyped gender behaviours that are expected of them by older people. 

I think the older generation to a large extent are too set in their ways to change their perspective.

'It ain't broke, so don't you dare fix it' seems to be their mindset.

In some cases wisdom comes with age, but in many case a growing mental rigidity is what comes instead. 

 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Tony1

[Balloon]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Bit late now but it would do some men good to lock horns with the doughty lasses who did all sorts of "mens" jobs in WW2. I may well have changed their thoughts about how capable women are. FWIW I was told by someone who worked there that when CAV were building injectors by selective assembly they would not employ men on the needle and nozzle line because most simply never had the deftness of touch to feel the perfect fit. (Bet they did not pay them a premium though!)

Yesterday I went into the local plumbers’ merchant. I waited at the counter to be served. Eventually someone there shouted to another member of staff “there’s a young lady here…..not sure why…! Can you find out”

 

as I approach 40 I found an element of compliment amidst the sexism. 

[Tony Brooks]

And the recent comments throw up another problem for respondents. Do they look at the profile to see any ststed sex and use that to tailor the level of their reply or do they just reply and hope. In the former case they may pitch it at a lower level and et accused of mansplaining and in the later case there is an equal chance that they be accused of trying to put the questioner down. There is really no way of always doing it to suit everyone.

[Balloon]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

And the recent comments throw up another problem for respondents. Do they look at the profile to see any ststed sex and use that to tailor the level of their reply or do they just reply and hope. In the former case they may pitch it at a lower level and et accused of mansplaining and in the later case there is an equal chance that they be accused of trying to put the questioner down. There is really no way of always doing it to suit everyone.

I’d really hope that the pitch of a response be judged at the responders’ assessment of the poster’s level of knowledge (rightly or wrongly) and have nothing to do with their sex. 

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

And the recent comments throw up another problem for respondents. Do they look at the profile to see any ststed sex and use that to tailor the level of their reply or do they just reply and hope. In the former case they may pitch it at a lower level and et accused of mansplaining and in the later case there is an equal chance that they be accused of trying to put the questioner down. There is really no way of always doing it to suit everyone.

 

 

The problem with trying to pitch to a specific audience is that some are quite tricky. 

I identify as a hermaphrodite fox, for example- but only on weekdays. 

So I need lithium batteries to be explained in my native fox, or else I've had it.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Balloon said:

I’d really hope that the pitch of a response be judged at the responders’ assessment of the poster’s level of knowledge (rightly or wrongly) and have nothing to do with their sex. 

 

But exactly how do you do that with text, especially when the standard of literacy is, shall we say, suspect? One needs all the help one can get and the sex of the person might just be one clue, but by no means the major one.

[Balloon]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

But exactly how do you do that with text, especially when the standard of literacy is, shall we say, suspect? One needs all the help one can get and the sex of the person might just be one clue, but by no means the major one.

I agree that it’s very difficult to judge. And errors are likely.
But I wholeheartedly disagree that sex might be any sort of clue as to competence. 

[PD1964]

1 hour ago, BilgePump said:

Only just read the OP and most replies, along with the battery thread, but will add my take.

 

Sometimes, it may be kinder for someone to post along the lines of 'We don't want to burst your bubble but the realities are XYZ, your plan will cause you problems if you don't know about ABC' etc instead of  'Don't be so stupid, you know nothing'. However, there's no way that they can tell someone that their half-baked life choice is going to be perfectly plain sailing or tell another that it doesn't require the owner to learn about their boat and how it works.

 

Too often the gulf between the knowledge of the experienced member and the lack of it in the newcomer can mean that even the words being used are incomprehensible to the newcomer. Sadly for them, some important things like engines, gas, electricity etc work to well defined standards and terminology and fundamental basics like physics. I'm guessing that it's too easy, when for the tenth time someone asking the original question doesn't respond with the really needed info when asked to clarify something, that the experienced hand gets frustrated when they are happy to offer detailed replies. Also guessing that the original newbie can be getting overwhelmed with the entire learning curve for systems that are alien to those coming from a grid-connected house. The slack can be cut both ways.

 

Any newcomer who takes the good advice of those with decades of specific knowledge and attempts to gain a greater understanding should be commended and hopefully have an enjoyable and fulfilling boating life (how the battery thread seemed to be going). Those that reject everything, don't just want to reinvent the wheel but want to learn nowt, defy nature, licensing rules and even the laws of physics with a 20w panel and electric cooker (sure I remember threads like those), those kind of people will probably have a short and expensive, but educational, lesson in boat ownership and life afloat.

 

As for the older male dominated side of the conversation, as someone in that category, it does need calling out. Remember, grandad, that young lady may have a mech eng degree, fantastic welding skills, be a qualified spark or a magician with steam engines. Calling out bad advice is fine, attaching criticism to the recipient's sex/gender/age etc is wrong. Just learn to cut it out and be a bit more thoughtful with replies.

 

The forum really needs to attract a wider user base. Not everyone who enjoys the canals can afford a good narrowboat, not everyone wants a boat.  The site is canalworld, not steel hulled boat owners' club. GRP owners are thin on the ground here as active contributors and kayakers, fisherfolks and general towpath enthusiasts have even less to come here for.

 

I don't go in the politics section. There are more important things to do in life than argue with people when I would rather talk to them about a common boating interest.

 

The fact that lots of ex boat-owners choose to continue to contribute suggests that they both enjoy the conversation and believe that the forum is a thing of worth. I agree with that. No ads plastering this place, no subs, it runs on a shoestring supported by donations, tech and admin volunteers doing a great unpaid job and mods seeming to keep things from becoming complete mayhem.

 

This place is a mine of information for boat owners new and old, and a lot of experience still being passed on through quality posts. Long may it continue and thanks to those who do try to help with their knowledge. Like a decent pub, the broad cross section of people here seem to be decent types united by a common interest in the waterways. 

 

The pub's open.

I think I’v had three pints by the time it’s took you to write that and by the way as the young members on here say “TL;DR” 

Keep your reply short or you’ll miss last orders 🍻🍻

[Balloon]

16 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

I think I’v had three pints by the time it’s took you to write that and by the way as the young members on here say “TL;DR” 

Keep your reply short or you’ll miss last orders 🍻🍻

@rusty69 you brought this acronym into this thread. everyone has decided you’re young. How do you feel about this

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, Balloon said:

@rusty69 you brought this acronym into this thread. everyone has decided you’re young. How do you feel about this

Highly privileged 

[PD1964]

4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Highly privileged 

“Oh my gosh” as the OP says, another expression that is little used on here😂

[Balloon]

23 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

“Oh my gosh” as the OP says, another expression that is little used on here😂

What is your point here? 

[PD1964]

13 minutes ago, Balloon said:

What is your point here? 

As it says an infrequently used expression on here, just like “TL;DR” 

[Hudds Lad]

8 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

…Had the vendor used such as Herpes I reckon I would still be waiting for it. I avoid ever using herpes as in the past they have been absoloooooooootely crap…

I’m afraid you can’t anymore, they’ve rebranded as EVRI, so you’ll need to find a new comedy name for them.

[BilgePump]

2 hours ago, PD1964 said:

I think I’v had three pints by the time it’s took you to write that and by the way as the young members on here say “TL;DR” 

Keep your reply short or you’ll miss last orders 🍻🍻

A quick search would show that a few of us have used tldr, TL;DR etc at times on this forum in the past. It's been knocking around on tech sites for twenty years and punch card era retirees know what it means. I tried to make a few points in the post so a TL;DR wouldn't be a single sentence.

 

TL;DR - Pub's still open

[BilgePump]

3 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

 

The problem with trying to pitch to a specific audience is that some are quite tricky. 

I identify as a hermaphrodite fox, for example- but only on weekdays. 

So I need lithium batteries to be explained in my native fox, or else I've had it.

 

 

Do you really want fluent fox screech at midnight trying to explain that? May take longer than their usual vocal shenanigans. 

[Tony1]

18 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

Do you really want fluent fox screech at midnight trying to explain that? May take longer than their usual vocal shenanigans. 

 

I'm sorry, what?

Can you translate to Panda please?

It's Saturday, FFS.

 

[BilgePump]

1 minute ago, Tony1 said:

 

I'm sorry, what?

Can you translate to Panda please?

It's Saturday, FFS.

 

Oh, well that's easy if you're doing the weekend course. The full instructions are written on those bamboo stems over there. Chew them and a zenlike knowledge of lithium systems will be yours.

[MtB]

10 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

I did notice when I bought some decking rope, on line, last week that when I paid for next day delivery, it actualy arrived sixteen hours after I placed the order and was delivered by good old Royal mail. Had the vendor used such as Herpes I reckon I would still be waiting for it.

 

 

That's great. But had the decking rope delivered by Royal Mail been a load of old shyte, would have blamed Royal Mail? Of course not, but that is the equivalent of what you are doing with Facebook and Instagram.

 

It is the content posted on FB and IG that you don't like, not the platforms themselves. There is plenty of first class content on both, you just haven't found it - obviously. 

[George and Dragon]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

That's great. But had the decking rope delivered by Royal Mail been a load of old shyte, would have blamed Royal Mail? Of course not, but that is the equivalent of what you are doing with Facebook and Instagram.

 

It is the content posted on FB and IG that you don't like, not the platforms themselves. There is plenty of first class content on both, you just haven't found it - obviously. 

 

Maybe in Tim's case it is the content he dislikes. I don't know, I've never met him.

In my case it is very definitely the platform: I do not and never will trust Meta with my data. I gave up using WhatsApp the day Facebook bought it. 

 

I'm sure there is great content on many platforms but I choose which ones I am prepared to use.

[Arthur Marshall]

15 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

 

Maybe in Tim's case it is the content he dislikes. I don't know, I've never met him.

In my case it is very definitely the platform: I do not and never will trust Meta with my data. I gave up using WhatsApp the day Facebook bought it. 

 

I'm sure there is great content on many platforms but I choose which ones I am prepared to use.

I've given up worrying. Your personal data is flogged off every time you use a payment card, look at your phone or contact your GP. And if you've got Alexa or whatever,  a smart TV or a web doorbell, bothering about Meta & the rest of them  is pointless, you've already given all your privacy away.

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I've given up worrying. Your personal data is flogged off every time you use a payment card, look at your phone or contact your GP. And if you've got Alexa or whatever,  a smart TV or a web doorbell, bothering about Meta & the rest of them  is pointless, you've already given all your privacy away.

 

 

And iPhone users have Siri listening and recording everything within earshot of the phone, 24/7/365. Alexa prolly does the same on Android.

 

And both track everywhere you go and when, the guvvermint will no doubt have full records. 

[George and Dragon]

You've said this before but I never see any personalised advertising.

 

Mind you, my phone and computer go through VPNs, I don't have Siri enabled, wouldn't touch a web doorbell with your bargepole and am sufficiently tight to not yet have been forced to buy a smart TV.

I do use a payment card and have opted out of letting my GP share my data with all and sundry. 

I'd love to see some evidence that my payment card usage leaks past my bank/credit card company in any identifiable form.

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

 

That's great. But had the decking rope delivered by Royal Mail been a load of old shyte, would have blamed Royal Mail? Of course not, but that is the equivalent of what you are doing with Facebook and Instagram.

 

It is the content posted on FB and IG that you don't like, not the platforms themselves. There is plenty of first class content on both, you just haven't found it - obviously. 

Its not that I havnt found it, ive never been on there to look. Ive survived without such nonsense for my lifetime and will not be joining anytime soon lol. Just hearing about the shite that people tell me is on there is enough for me.