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Minimum stability level needed for a houseboat


riverfan12345

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Hi there

 

I have an older relative who is interested in purchasing a plastic hulled cabin cruiser with a view to living on the boat long-term.

 

Having looked at the type of boat he's interested in, I'm concerned that the boat may not be stable enough on the water for his daily living. Unlike a narrowboat, it doesn't have significant ballast and seems to follow whatever waves hit it's side - whether it's swans, canoeists, wind-caused waves etc.

 

He seems to think it's fine but I have doubts. Are there any rules-of-thumb for plastic boats of this type - what to expect regarding stability - modifications you can make to a plastic boat to make it more stable, or are some boats just not suitable for long-term living if stability is an important factor?

 

Would be good to get some recommendations from experienced boaters about this!

 

Thanks

 

 

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9 minutes ago, riverfan12345 said:

Are there any rules-of-thumb for plastic boats of this type

 

What type?  Even mine sweepers are/have been made from GRP and so have small 16 ft boats with a cuddy. At least we need a photo or the make and model of the boat.

 

I know of few GRP boats that have much ballast apart from trimming ballast and sailing boats. A GRP narrow boat (there have been a few) may be ballasted to get the height above the waterline below bridge height.

 

I suspect this may be a narrow beam canal cruiser and they, together with many other short narrow boats be a bit tender. That means they  tend to roll as you step aboard and move about. A wide beam GRP cruiser will do it far less.

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24 minutes ago, riverfan12345 said:

Having looked at the type of boat he's interested in, I'm concerned that the boat may not be stable enough on the water for his daily living. Unlike a narrowboat, it doesn't have significant ballast and seems to follow whatever waves hit it's side - whether it's swans, canoeists, wind-caused waves etc.

 

There are various points that can be made, but the main ones being :

 

1) Generally the wider the boat the more stable it will be.

2) If it is a post 1998 Boat then there are stability requirements it would have had to achieve under the RCD rules.

 

Basically all boats 'wobble' when you walk up and down them, but certainly some more than others.

If your relative is a little bit unsteady on their feet it may be that boating is not for them - icy pontoons, slippery, wet pontoons, boat moves when you step on / off the boat etc.

 

Can you provide more info about the boat, where it will be moored and the likely use (will it be a permanently moored 'floating flat' or will it be a cruising boat ?)

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, riverfan12345 said:

Thanks for the reply.

 

I'm not sure about the make and model but this is the one he's interested in:

 

image.png.d337926845c389cc61fdde8de218897a.png

 

 

I'd suggest that that is not an ideal boat for an elderly person (who is not comfortable if the boat moves) to have as a liveaboard.

 

It will have no insulation.

I doubt it has any heating

It is very short

It is high sided so will be difficult to get in & out

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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22 minutes ago, riverfan12345 said:

He seems to think it's fine but I have doubts.

 

 

In the nicest possible way, is it not up to him to make this assessment?  Or has he not actually been on board this boat to assess the stability? 

 

Whether the stability is suitable for an "older relative" is very much a matter of opinion. I'd have much bigger concerns than stability in your position. Mainly that boat probably has no insulation or any effective heating so winters living aboard will be grim. 

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Without looking inside I think that apart from what looks like a DIY "shed" at the back it is a pretty standard boat of its type and being small I would expect it to roll a bit as people board and move about. I think it probably originally had a canvas hood at the back so much less weight high up, but I doubt removing the back part would make much difference. It might if the shed constriction and materials are heavy, especially the roof part.

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15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Can you provide more info about the boat, where it will be moored and the likely use (will it be a permanently moored 'floating flat' or will it be a cruising boat ?)

 

Thanks.

He wants to use it as a continuous cruiser on medium-sized rivers, staying in town centres and some country stuff. He wants to have his grandchildren round to stay on it and look after them on it.

 

I'm aware there are other issues with the boat, which he seems fine with. However I know stability is a concern to him - his balance isn't great - so I want to focus on that concern with him as it's something he cares about.

 

It's an interesting point that the wood structure on the back may make that boat less stable. 

 

Would you say that if stability is a concern then the boat probably isn't fit-for-purpose compared with other boats?

 

Are the RCD rules applicable to the UK? 

 

Thanks again.

 

image.png

Edited by riverfan12345
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1 minute ago, riverfan12345 said:

Are the RCD rules applicable to the UK? 

 

Yes - but I'd suggest that the boat shown pre-dates the RCD by many years

 

 

1 minute ago, riverfan12345 said:

He wants to use it as a continuous cruiser on medium-sized rivers, staying in town centres and some country stuff. He wants to have his grandchildren round to stay on it and look after them on it.

 

It is not easy to CC on Rivers, most/many of the River moorings are limited to 48 hours, but the big problem is that there are actually very few moorings on rivers unles you want to 'wild moor' at just ties up to a tree, but you will nor be able to get off the boat.

 

BUT the BIGGER problem is that Rivers go into flood very easily, you need to be able to cope with flood conditions, or be able to get of the River onto a canalised section.

 

Having had boats of a similar size I'd say that the boat is not a liveaboard for anyone, and not an elederly person and 'some' Grand Children.

It is not big enough, & it is not designed to be used as anything other than a 'day-boat'

 

6 minutes ago, riverfan12345 said:

Would you say that if stability is a concern then the boat probably isn't fit-for-purpose compared with other boats?

 

It is not the stability that is so much of a concern just it is totally 'not fit for the purpose for which you want it'

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9 minutes ago, riverfan12345 said:

He wants to use it as a continuous cruiser on medium-sized rivers, staying in town centres and some country stuff. He wants to have his grandchildren round to stay on it and look after them on it.

 

Does he have previous boating experience? That sounds like a big wish if he is elderly, not too steady on his feet, want to continuous cruise - i.e. move on with maximum 14 day stays each time, and have young? children on board on rivers, and find suitable moorings in town centres. Has he done any research into the practicalities of boat life at all? Is he up to carrying gas bottles, emptying loos etc? Has he the practical abilities to do maintenance or funds to pay others to do it?

 

I wish him well, and others have come to boating late in life, but from what little you say it may not be for him nor the boat.

 

Tam

Edited by Tam & Di
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Totally stupid idea. How old is he and what rivers and area is he going to CC?

Let him do it, you can’t stop him if he’s so determined. But whatever you do don’t let him have your kids on board. Make that point to him and let him do it, within 6 month he will realise what a fool he’s been.

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Especially with that outboard, Few waterside outlets supply petrol but some river ones do, so if there is not one near him, he can add carrying cans or tanks of petrol from filling station to boat, along with the gas bottles and probably toilet tank.

 

Rivers in flood are very dangerous places, even for boaters who are strong and know what they are about. Does he know what a flood line is and how to rig it/them?

Does he know how to stop floods allowing the boat to ride over the bank so it is stranded when the water level drops?

Does he realize that on  rivers the adjacent property owner usually holds the rights to allow mooring or not and if they do a charge is likely to be exacted. On the Thames a minimum of £8 a night I suspect based on six or so years ago and often much more (£14 in some places).

 

From what I see the so called CCers who live aboard and make minimal effort to move about have taken up a lot of the "free" mooring spots on rivers so finding a free mooring is not easy at times. Canals are a bit safer and time limited free moorings easier to find but there are requirements about distance moved to be met.

 

I am with PD1864, let him try it but make sure he can't endanger his grandkids. A summer weekend on a canal is probably safe enough as long as they have AND WEAR life jackets but no way in winter.

 

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The boat and cruising plan combination seem a very bad idea. It could work if the boat stayed in a marina 90% of the time, with access to shore power, nice showers, washing machines, cafe, amenities etc. and the boat itself was only really used as a sleeping/loo/quick meal prep type of floating pod. I knew a guy at a marina I was in did just that on a tiny 19' yacht, but he was young, enthusiastic, and could work from anywhere on his laptop so spent most of the day in various workspaces, cafes etc.

 

CCing on rivers is not easy in even a far more suitable boat; members with far more experience than me will attest to that.

The boat from the photo looks so small it may well not have standing headroom; that's not good. Mine doesn't and I would only want to live on it if the alternative was a park bench in the rain. Like MtB said it won't be insulated in a manner suited to liveaboard use. Winter cruising on a boat like that is pretty hardcore. Cold, damp and confined.

The fact that you mention his balance and age suggest that he's a little cautious about substantial movement, but that's what all boats do. It's easy enough to get a big narrowboat rocking with a foot on the gunwale and one on the bank. This is a smallish boat that will certainly rock on a river, not that it's a bad boat, just what it will do.

It's such a tiny boat, that even apart from any safety concerns, once someone's living essentials are onboard, cramming an extra couple of kids in for even a few days, without marina facilities isn't going to be great fun.

 

I'm a big fan of GRP boats and they can be suitable for liveaboard use, but this boat, the cruising plan and person's age and lack of experience don't seem wise.

 

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Having had two 20ft grp cruisers, I don't think for one minute they are suitable for living on full time.

I have had weeks away on a few occasions and as others have pointed out, there are several issues that that larger steel boats don't suffer from.

Ballast, except for levelling is not usual on a grp cruiser, and will rock a bit when stepping aboard as they are fairly light for their size.

Apart from heating, insulation, and fitting in all the equipment necessary for living aboard, there is the problem of standing upright in the cabin.

This was my main complaint about my boats, and being old my back, hips and knees are rather stiff.

After a week aboard I was mincing around the towpath like a gay hunch back dwarf!

For living aboard a much bigger fibreglass cruiser is needed or a steel narrowboat.

 

 

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I'm getting on in years but I decided to buy a steel NB, as I had lots of maritime experience.

No way should anyone without lots of experience, or lots of youth attempt it!

Tiny GRP boats are not suitable for living in.

Edited by LadyG
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4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

In the nicest possible way, is it not up to him to make this assessment?  Or has he not actually been on board this boat to assess the stability? 

 

Whether the stability is suitable for an "older relative" is very much a matter of opinion. I'd have much bigger concerns than stability in your position. Mainly that boat probably has no insulation or any effective heating so winters living aboard will be grim. 

Correct, not healthy housing

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

In the nicest possible way, is it not up to him to make this assessment?  Or has he not actually been on board this boat to assess the stability? 

 

Whether the stability is suitable for an "older relative" is very much a matter of opinion. I'd have much bigger concerns than stability in your position. Mainly that boat probably has no insulation or any effective heating so winters living aboard will be grim. 

Correct, not healthy housing

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29 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I'm getting on in years but I decided to buy a steel NB, as I had lots of maritime experience.

No way should anyone without lots of experience, or lots of youth attempt it!

Tiny GRP boats are not suitable for living in.

  Even with your years of Maritime experience and your steel NB, you seam to have struggled from the minute you moved onto the canal till present day, having nothing but problems with the boat and moving it and in return you seam to have little enjoyment with canal life.

Edited by PD1964
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51 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

  Even with your years of Maritime experience and your steel NB, you seam to have struggled from the minute you moved onto the canal till present day, having nothing but problems with the boat and moving it and in return you seam to have little enjoyment with canal life.

 

And gives appaling advice to newbies - the latest one (today) being that at 10.3 volts their batteries are 80% charged. She is a liability.

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13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And gives appaling advice to newbies - the latest one (today) being that at 10.3 volts their batteries are 80% charged. She is a liability.

Sometimes it’s better to keep your opinion to yourself especially when you get personal 

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The title refers to a houseboat. A 20 foot GRP cruiser of unlikely condition is no way a houseboat. In fact unless for a weekend it is totally unsuitable for habitation, lacking almost all necessary facilities like power, heating, insulation, stability etc.

Please reconsider before putting anyone of advancing years aboard this wreck with a shed attached.

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51 minutes ago, Chris John said:

Sometimes it’s better to keep your opinion to yourself especially when you get personal 

 

So can we take from this that you are all in favour of boaters being given suspect and often wrong advice? Especially when the giver of such advice seems to have a history of it. There are some posters here who give poor advice from the best of intentions and when corrected seem to accept and learn, there are others who seem to be different, posting in an authoritative manner so members, especially new boaters, really need warning about them. Otherwise, this forum will get like Faceache etc with all sorts of misleading advice so no one knows which is good and which is bad.

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