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Paloma - can I box in

Scuzpot

By Scuzpot
in Boat Equipment

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MtB Veteran II

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Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Scuzpot said:

Hi All

i have a Paloma water heater. Can I make a cupboard around it if vented ? 

 

Simple answer: No. Absolutely not. 

 

Second level answer: Well you can, but expect to fail your next BSS and any gas technician to refuse to work on it and attempt disconnection. If you're still alive.

 

Most accurate but probably least helpful answer: Only if the Manual that came with it says it is ok for "compartment installation", and you comply with the compartment clearances and ventilation requirements that will be specified.  But I doubt you'll have a copy of the manual and I very much doubt it would permit compartment installation.

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Arthur Marshall Veteran II

Arthur Marshall

Posted
Posted

This being a discussion forum, you usually get a mixture of opinions and a good argument going. In this case, I suspect you won't and MtB's definitive answer will remain unchallenged!

It would be about as sensible as piping your engine's exhaust directly into the cabin to keep you warm in winter.

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MtB Veteran II

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Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

This being a discussion forum, you usually get a mixture of opinions and a good argument going. In this case, I suspect you won't and MtB's definitive answer will remain unchallenged!

It would be about as sensible as piping your engine's exhaust directly into the cabin to keep you warm in winter.

 

 

To expand on my faintly grumpy post, should the OP or anyone else here actually have a copy of the Paloma manual, could they perhaps have a look in it and post what it actually says on the subject of compartment installation please? 

 

This would be helpful to the op and to anyone else considering boxing one in. I suspect the manual may not even mention it except perhaps in passing, especially as the Paloma was designed and sold as a "flueless" appliance discharging into the cabin, and adding a flue kit was an optional extra back in those days.

 

Nowadays a flueless water heater is permissible only if under a certain power input (8kW springs to mind) and installed in a minimum room volume (10 cubic metres springs to mind without looking it up, but it might be 20 cubic metres) and NOT in a room containing a shower. So perhaps it could be argued the OP could install theirs in a cupboard provided the cupboard has a volume of at least 10 (or perhaps 20) Cubic metres.... :)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by MtB
Add a bit.
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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted (edited)

Is that "NO" specific to Paloma or applicable to all Instant water heaters ?

 

We have a Static Caravan park and all vans have a 'boxed in' instantaneous water heater (usually a Morco)

The vans have to go thru a regular check / service for gas and water heaters (this one was apart because of a smokey mark on the case)

 

Is this allowed in caravans but not boats ?

 

No idea why I cannot get them to save 'vertically' !!!

 

 

 

 

12345.jpg

20220816-093737-1.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Screenshot for the pH 5 3f. Dunno if I can upload a PDF, but pretty sure it's available on line. 

Screenshot_20220816-094428.png

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting that it is prohibited to install it in a boat !!

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Dr Bob Veteran II

Dr Bob

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Screenshot for the pH 5 3f. Dunno if I can upload a PDF, but pretty sure it's available on line. 

Screenshot_20220816-094428.png

 

I do like the prohibited installation (h). Not in a boat!

 

Also (f) would also disqualify it.

 

Who reads the manual anyway.

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rusty69 Veteran II

rusty69

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

 

I do like the prohibited installation (h). Not in a boat!

 

Also (f) would also disqualify it.

 

Who reads the manual anyway.

I read it you muppet. After I installed it. 

 

Actually, it was already on the boat when we bought it. 

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MtB Veteran II

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Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is that "NO" specific to Paloma or applicable to all Instant water heaters ?

 

We have a Static Caravan park and all vans have a 'boxed in' instantaneous water heater (usually a Morco)

The vans have to go thru a regular check / service for gas and water heaters (this one was apart because of a smokey mark on the case)

 

Is this allowed in caravans but not boats ?

 

No idea why I cannot get them to save 'vertically' !!!

 

 

 

 

 

20220816-093737-1.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Horrifying.

 

The outer case is considered a safety component and running it like that is beyond irresponsible in my opinion as a gas bod, especially in a rental. Mainly due to the fire risk. 

 

What does the manual for the D61 say about clearances from combustible materials (with the case on!) and about compartment installation? 

 

 

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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, MtB said:

The outer case is considered a safety component and running it like that is beyond irresponsible in my opinion as a gas bod, especially in a rental. Mainly due to the fire risk. 

 

They are not rental vans, they are all 'owned' by customers who pay an annual ground rent - we have no messing about with cleaning and servicing, advertising, noisy kids etc etc.

 

As I said - the outer case was removed for servicing due to a smokey mark on the 'spy-hole'.

 

 

47 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The vans have to go thru a regular check / service for gas and water heaters (this one was apart because of a smokey mark on the case)

 

 

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Stroudwater1 Rising Star

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Posted
Posted

Ours is in a cupboard, has been for 25 years. Its a large cupboard, I dont know about the square footage  but its around 6 foot high going back 4 foot at the bottom and 2 foot at the top where the Paloma heater is. Its around 2 foot wide. There is a vent /chimney going through the roof. It has bikes and washing stuff in the cupboard too . There are two large decorative holes in the cupboard door for ventilation which arent ever covered. Never failed a BSS yet. 

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Tracy D'arth Veteran II

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Posted
Posted

If you use a cupboard, take the top and bottom out completely.   Batten the 2 sides back together so that the door still swings and the box shape is preserved.

Maintain 2" clearance all around the heater case and flue. Mount it so that the whole cupboard lifts off hooks on the wall to completely expose the heater.

Then I can see no objection as the "cover" is purely decorative and not attached to the "illegally installed" heater.

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jonathanA Experienced

jonathanA

Posted
Posted (edited)

Is there a difference if the heater is flueless or has a flue as In the manual page from Rusty69 or Alan's morco ?

 

I know they are still open to the room 

 

Just interested in understanding the issues to aid my learning and understanding.

Edited by jonathanA
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Alan de Enfield Veteran II

Alan de Enfield

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

Is there a difference if the heater is flueless or has a flue as In the manual page from Rusty69 or Alan's morco ?

 

I know they are still open to the room 

 

Just interested in understanding the issues to aid my learning and understanding.

 

The ones fitted in Static caravans have the 'normal' flue thru the roof as per the fittings on a NB.

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Scuzpot Gongoozler

Scuzpot

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On 16/08/2022 at 17:45, Tracy D'arth said:

If you use a cupboard, take the top and bottom out completely.   Batten the 2 sides back together so that the door still swings and the box shape is preserved.

Maintain 2" clearance all around the heater case and flue. Mount it so that the whole cupboard lifts off hooks on the wall to completely expose the heater.

Then I can see no objection as the "cover" is purely decorative and not attached to the "illegally installed" heater.

 

Thank you , great advise 

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