Boat accident legalities

[Richardcn]

Hi All

 

We witnessed an incident on the Oxford yesterday when a hire boat (circa 60ft narrowboat) t-boned a fellow moorer (yoghurt pot), HARD! It didn't sink but I believe there will be some damage as the hit was that hard. It flexed the hull and pulled the pins, which however might have saved it. I immediately took some photos and as the owner wasn't about I politely asked for the hirers details, to which they replied "why?". If nothing else it seemed common decency to me so I pointed out that they'd just struck somebody's else's property but they still refused and basically said 'take it up with the hire company'! However, I don't know and haven't seen the owner since the incident (although I have met him) and the hirers may be safely back in their houses before the owner reads the note that I've left, as we're moving tomorrow.

 

What are the legalities in this situation, ie leaving details etc, and what else should we do being the only witnesses?

 

Regards

Richard

[Slim]

Don't know about legalities but I assume you noted the hire company.  In your position I would make a quick call to them.

[Naughty Cal]

I would inform the hire company with the details of the accident and leave them details of the damaged boat as best you can.

 

I would then leave the owners of the cruiser a note somewhere on the boat with the hire yard details, your details and anything else deemed appropriate. 

 

Can't really do much more than  that 😕 

 

Legally you don't have to do anything but morally?

[nicknorman]

10 minutes ago, Richardcn said:

Hi All

 

We witnessed an incident on the Oxford yesterday when a hire boat (circa 60ft narrowboat) t-boned a fellow moorer (yoghurt pot), HARD! It didn't sink but I believe there will be some damage as the hit was that hard. It flexed the hull and pulled the pins, which however might have saved it. I immediately took some photos and as the owner wasn't about I politely asked for the hirers details, to which they replied "why?". If nothing else it seemed common decency to me so I pointed out that they'd just struck somebody's else's property but they still refused and basically said 'take it up with the hire company'! However, I don't know and haven't seen the owner since the incident (although I have met him) and the hirers may be safely back in their houses before the owner reads the note that I've left, as we're moving tomorrow.

 

What are the legalities in this situation, ie leaving details etc, and what else should we do being the only witnesses?

 

Regards

Richard

You are just a witness so don’t have a “dog in the fight”, that will be up to the owner. However no harm would come from reporting it to the hire company straight away, you presumably have the boat’s name and the date/time, which will allow the hire company to identify the hirer. That gives the hire company the option to retain some or all of the deposit if they see fit, which is much easier than trying to extract money from the hirers once they have gone home. Any claim will I think be on the hire company not the hirer (the boat is insured, not the driver) but there will of course be an excess which either the hire company or the hirers would have to pay, and I think we all agree that we would prefer it to be the hirers! Of course it may not come to that, but at least the hire company is forewarned.

 

Its an interesting point that with motor vehicles, it is a legal requirement to contact the owner of a damaged vehicle to exchange details (or report to the police) but I am not sure whether there is any equivalent law or bylaw relating to boats.

Edited August 14, 2022 by nicknorman

[Chewbacka]

The greater the time difference between the last time the owner saw the boat in an un-damaged condition, the alleged impact and the owner identifying damage the more likely the hire boat insurance company will claim the damage could have been caused by any number of other unreported instances.  I don’t see this ending well for the plastic boat owner.  Hope they have their own insurance they can claim against.

[Richardcn]

Thanks for all the advice so far.

 

A couple of twists and turns since I posted though. Firstly, the boat that was struck is not displaying a licence and the name is barely visibly on the hull, not an issue but, well... Secondly, I rang the hire company in question and they were nothing but rude and stroppy with me so I hung up! They were awkward at first when I said that the incident was yesterday; "Yesterday! Why are you only reporting it today" so I explained that I wasn't the owner. Then, when I stated the time of the incident as 1620 and she read back 6pm I correct her and she said "yes yes 6pm just tell me what happened" in an annoyed tone. I corrected her again and explained that I was trying to help out both them and the owner but got more of the same attitude, hence I terminated the call. Shocking customer service!

[Mike Tee]

Sounds like the rep of the hire company acted impeccably as regards her company - they got you pissed off enough to ‘walk away’, so they can deny everything should it ever come back to them officially.

I’d have done same as you in trying to report it though.

[Tony Brooks]

17 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

Sounds like the rep of the hire company acted impeccably as regards her company - they got you pissed off enough to ‘walk away’, so they can deny everything should it ever come back to them officially.

I’d have done same as you in trying to report it though.

 

I agree with that, now is the time to name names so the hire company can see what a poor response may lead to.

[cuthound]

49 minutes ago, Richardcn said:

Thanks for all the advice so far.

 

A couple of twists and turns since I posted though. Firstly, the boat that was struck is not displaying a licence and the name is barely visibly on the hull, not an issue but, well... Secondly, I rang the hire company in question and they were nothing but rude and stroppy with me so I hung up! They were awkward at first when I said that the incident was yesterday; "Yesterday! Why are you only reporting it today" so I explained that I wasn't the owner. Then, when I stated the time of the incident as 1620 and she read back 6pm I correct her and she said "yes yes 6pm just tell me what happened" in an annoyed tone. I corrected her again and explained that I was trying to help out both them and the owner but got more of the same attitude, hence I terminated the call. Shocking customer service!

 

Send them an email with all the relevant details in it and give the GRP boat owner a copy.

 

That way they can't deny they weren't informed.

[Paul C]

1 hour ago, Richardcn said:

What are the legalities in this situation, ie leaving details etc, and what else should we do being the only witnesses?

 

 

The hire company's insurance company are ultimately liable to make any necessary payment. Your role is ONLY as a witness, which will benefit the owner of the plastic boat but is of no interest to the hire company or the hirer (unless they wanted to make some kind of morally righteous voluntary payment). So, offer to leave a description of the hire boat, hirer, incident and pics with the moored boat owner; I dare say if any damage is done it will be up to that boat's insurer to progress it, if the moorer doesn't get anywhere directly.

 

Fortunately, hire boats tend to be clearly marked with boat name and hire firm, so these will show up on the pics so its a slam-dunk.

[Richardcn]

18 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

The hire company's insurance company are ultimately liable to make any necessary payment. Your role is ONLY as a witness, which will benefit the owner of the plastic boat but is of no interest to the hire company or the hirer (unless they wanted to make some kind of morally righteous voluntary payment). So, offer to leave a description of the hire boat, hirer, incident and pics with the moored boat owner; I dare say if any damage is done it will be up to that boat's insurer to progress it, if the moorer doesn't get anywhere directly.

 

Fortunately, hire boats tend to be clearly marked with boat name and hire firm, so these will show up on the pics so its a slam-dunk.

Thanks for that. I'd intended to email the hire company to make them aware that an incident had taken place (and that there were witnesses, myself and my wife) and that their customer service leaves a lot to be desired.

 

I've left a note for the owner of the vessel that was struck, with a brief explanation and my contact details. He can pursue from that, if he wishes. IF he's unlicensed then probably not.

 

I'm still interested to know what 'the law' says in terms of giving/leaving details and reporting etc, just for future reference if nothing else.

 

Thanks everybody.

[Tracy D'arth]

I would look at it as if you were the owner of the damaged boat.

What would you expect a witness to do for you?

 

Giving up all the information freely to the owner would be my reaction.  For you to deal with the hire company will be awaste of time and not really your concern.  I have found most of them to be ostriches when it comes to what the hirers do whilst out.

[Richardcn]

13 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I would look at it as if you were the owner of the damaged boat.

What would you expect a witness to do for you?

 

Giving up all the information freely to the owner would be my reaction.  For you to deal with the hire company will be awaste of time and not really your concern.  I have found most of them to be ostriches when it comes to what the hirers do whilst out.

True but they can't deny any knowledge later if there are emails informing them.

[Paul C]

They could deny it if its just an accusation. BUT if you have clear pics, with the hire firm and boat name........

[MtB]

25 minutes ago, Richardcn said:

True but they can't deny any knowledge later if there are emails informing them.

 

Of course they can. They will say they took you to be 'just another prankster' so they dismissed everything you said. 

 

Not that they are likely to open any dialogue with you. Why would they? Your role is as a witness to provide evidence if the victim decides to take action against them. 

 

Also not sure why you think the victim boat not displaying a license makes any difference. 1) It might be licenced but not displaying the disc and 2) The hire company are still liable for the damage their hirer caused. 

[Arthur Marshall]

As the boat owner hasn't been anywhere near the boat for several days at least, all the hire company would need to say is that any damage was caused prior to their boat hitting it. Or after. It could have been whacked consistently over a period of weeks, especially if parked where a boat could hit it pointy end first, which is quite hard to do on a canal. You just can't get the angle.

[Paul C]

The other thing, if the other boat isn't clearly displaying its index number (I know you mentioned no licence and barely visible name), then its just "a boat" not "the boat". So the hire firm may still get away with it.

 

They get all sorts of claims that "one of their boats ........................... (fill in the blank)" and no doubt there some dubious claims amongst the genuine ones. 

[Chewbacka]

Was there any damage that you can actually photograph?  If not I doubt the hire company will be interested, they will simply make a note that the hire boat collided with the other boat resulting in zero visible damage, which therefore indicates a minor collision.  Any internal damage found many days after the boat was last occupied could have occurred at any time, and it will be difficult to get the insurance company to accept any responsibility.  But good luck to the boat owner if they make a claim.

[Tam & Di]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

and 2) The hire company are still liable for the damage their hirer caused. 

 .. if it can be proved that it was one of their craft that caused the damage. I thought it was no longer necessary to display a licence as the CRT patrollers can simply scan the boat's name/number and look on-line.

 

Tam

Edited August 14, 2022 by Tam & Di

[Jerra]

19 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

 .. if it can be proved that it was one of their craft that caused the damage. I thought it was no longer necessary to display a licence as the CRT patrollers can simply scan the boat's name/number and look on-line.

 

Tam

I thought that was rescinded when they realised one of the laws says it must be displayed, although I doubt they will make a fuss about it.  I suspect it is a case of "whoops we shouldn't tell them that but we won't bother if they don't display" sort of situation.

[BilgePump]

8 hours ago, Richardcn said:

Thanks for all the advice so far.

 

A couple of twists and turns since I posted though. Firstly, the boat that was struck is not displaying a licence and the name is barely visibly on the hull, not an issue but, well... Secondly, I rang the hire company in question and they were nothing but rude and stroppy with me so I hung up! They were awkward at first when I said that the incident was yesterday; "Yesterday! Why are you only reporting it today" so I explained that I wasn't the owner. Then, when I stated the time of the incident as 1620 and she read back 6pm I correct her and she said "yes yes 6pm just tell me what happened" in an annoyed tone. I corrected her again and explained that I was trying to help out both them and the owner but got more of the same attitude, hence I terminated the call. Shocking customer service!

It seems that hire companies will say 'don't know, can't prove' whether it's a road vehicle or a boat. They will do anything to avoid a successful claim when one of their plain idiots or criminals do something. When I had some old stone flags stolen from my house by scallies in a Transit van from a local but large hire company (heard them with prybars, yelled, they got a couple, got a picture of them all), the hire company basically told me and the police to sod off. The young sh!t on the phone from the hire company at 8am when it happened, laughed and told me that there is zero responsibility to provide information; well I hope he crashed his own car into a wall. Cops didn't give a crap about their 'we don't know' response, despite the neighbouring business having some CCTV to boot.

 

PS: Not naming the company because in my older age I would like to take up tyre slashing and retribution as a hobby!

 

eta: PPS: The PS was a joke, Not sure how literally some people take posts 🙂

Edited August 14, 2022 by BilgePump

[reg]

Any collisions should be reported to CRT details here

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/contact-us/reporting-an-incident-accident-or-near-miss

Easiest way to report is on this number

0303 040 4040

 

[Cheese]

13 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

... especially if parked where a boat could hit it pointy end first, which is quite hard to do on a canal. You just can't get the angle.

Agrree.  The OP said "t-boned", which I took to mean running directly into the side of the boat, at an angle towards 90 degrees (certainly greater than 45).  Where was the hit boat moored: outside of a bend?  opposite a winding hole?  opposite the junction at Wigrams or Hawkesbury?  If so, then while not absolving the hirers of at least carelessness, there would seem to be some contributory negligence.

[Grassman]

 

 

 

 

As the plastic boat that was struck wasn't displaying an index number or licence I wouldn't have bothered reporting the collision. There's no excuse for not displaying an index number, and to me this indicates that the owner was attempting to keep under the radar and that his/her boat probably wasn't licenced.

 

There seems to be an increasing number of boats with no index number these days and a lot of which have no boat name either. I wonder how CRT manage to check if they are licenced or trace the owners in these instances?

[Lady M]

Perhaps a side effect of the confusion over displaying boat licences.  The boat licence disk conveniently includes both the name and the index number.  Don't CRT usually include a number of unidentifiable boats in their annual boat check figures.