Nasty niffs from pump out

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, Spudwynk said:

When you say clean the tank by breaking up what's at the bottom, how do we practically do this? Shove a  hose down the toilet pan as I've seen suggested or some other way?

 

 

Now we are getting into the detail of why I suggested changing to a cassette toilet earlier in the thread.

 

No not a hose. Take the inspection hatch off and use a stick or something to physically loosen it all up, then pump it out some more. If this delightful course of action doesn't appeal (like it didn't to me when I had the same problem!) then change to a cassette bog.

[Momac]

I used to use the blue toilet chemical  but discovered it is very unhealthy.

So after using nothing for a while to clear out  the blue stuff  as far as possible I started using Odourlos.

That seems to work very well and is also economical.

 

 

[PD1964]

10 hours ago, Spudwynk said:

Any advice where the inspection cover may be? Have only doubt the pump out access tubes on the side of the boat. Not sure where there might be a vent either at this stage 

When you say clean the tank by breaking up what's at the bottom, how do we practically do this? Shove a  hose down the toilet pan as I've seen suggested or some other way?

On the top of the tank, a round screw on  disc. As said above take it off and see if there is solid sediment on the bottom, this needs removing if there is. A bit of a smelly job, unpleasant for an hour or so but better then having unpleasant smells for months or so. Your tank could of been sat months without any movement(bodily of physically) so what was in there may of solidified at the bottom, best to get rid of this, so you wake up smelling the roses not the compost😊👍

[Norm55]

Interesting read, we have a new boat with macerator pump out and despite being 300 litres, disapointed at how soon it fills up, must be our age, but also more disapointing,  the smell.  A plastic smell, rather than drains,  which morfs into drain smell as it gets full. 

We have ditched the blue and using Tesco oxy power stain remover as suggested in another thread.  Assume this adds oxygen to the mix and starts the aerobic action.  How often do we add this ? 

Incidentally the pipes are plastic rather than metal which seems to be the norm

[MrsM]

We have a Tecma macerator loo with the pump out tank under the bed (reverse layout). As suggested here we add cheap biological washing liquid to the tank. I also keep a very dilute mix in a spray bottle next to the loo. After each use we give the pan a spray with this watery mix. No issues with odours at all and it keeps everything nice and clean. I'm hoping this won't affect any seals etc in the long-term but time will tell. 

[Tonka]

If it is a dump through, all you need is a hose through the pan and a stick

[pearley]

13 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I agree with this, it sounds as if it might be a vacuum toilet now I see the talk of extra mechanisms.

Our vacuum toilet has a vacuum generator with its own tank, around 10 litres, sat under a false floor in the wardrobe.The only noise you hear initially is the slurp as the vacuum sucks the effluent out of the bowl and into this tank. Then the pump will start to push the effluent from the tank into the main holding tank. This continues until such time as the vacuum has been remade in the tank.

 

At a year old ours has some smell in the wardrobe particularly after the toilet has been flushed. There are a number of possible reasons.

 

The flush fitting on the gunnel sits almost above the breather. The breather pipe runs down to a filter so unless very careful water can get into the breather and run down the pipe and saturate the charcoal filter. So at some point I will modify the run by simply turning the breather outlet by 90° so the runs up slightly.

 

The pipe from vacuum generator runs up to the waste tank so some effluent must remain in the pipe after the pump has stopped and be trapped by the non return valves. I'm told odour can permeate through sanitation hose so having effluent standing in a section if hose can only exacerbate this. I can, if course flush more water through each time so the effluent us replaced by something a bit cleaner but then the tank will fill quicker. One of the advantages of vacuum flush being the small amount if water used.

 

One of my neighbours has a long length of rigid pipe screwed into his flush fitting on the gunnel to improve ventilation. I guess it acts as some sort of stink pipe.

 

 

[Spudwynk]

Next point, everyone says the loo is a blue job. Seems to be a pink job on our boat 😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣

[PD1964]

8 minutes ago, Spudwynk said:

Next point, everyone says the loo is a blue job. Seems to be a pink job on our boat 😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣

Well the woman of the boat should take responsibility of the cr@p sometimes, instead of it always being the man of the boat who sorts it out 😂😂

Edited August 15, 2022 by PD1964

[pearley]

14 minutes ago, Spudwynk said:

Next point, everyone says the loo is a blue job. Seems to be a pink job on our boat 😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣

The pink I've seen is bowl cleaner.

[cuthound]

When I bought my boat, which has a macerator toilet fitted, the surveyor advised me not to add anything to the waste tank.

 

A couple of years later I added an MCS gauge to the waste tank. When I drilled the hole in the tank for the sensor, I was surprised at the relative lack of smell.

 

8 years on, still no smells from the toilet or tank, except canalside during pump out operations.

[Tonka]

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

When I bought my boat, which has a macerator toilet fitted, the surveyor advised me not to add anything to the waste tank.

 

A couple of years later I added an MCS gauge to the waste tank. When I drilled the hole in the tank for the sensor, I was surprised at the relative lack of smell.

 

8 years on, still no smells from the toilet or tank, except canalside during pump out operations.

Yes it would not smell if you have not used it. Because if you used it that would  be adding to the waste tank

[cuthound]

44 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Yes it would not smell if you have not used it. Because if you used it that would  be adding to the waste tank

 

It was in use, for the 2 years before I fitted the gauge and the 6 years after.

 

[ditchcrawler]

21 hours ago, Spudwynk said:

Any advice where the inspection cover may be? Have only doubt the pump out access tubes on the side of the boat. Not sure where there might be a vent either at this stage 

When you say clean the tank by breaking up what's at the bottom, how do we practically do this? Shove a  hose down the toilet pan as I've seen suggested or some other way?

 

21 hours ago, Spudwynk said:

Any advice where the inspection cover may be? Have only doubt the pump out access tubes on the side of the boat. Not sure where there might be a vent either at this stage 

When you say clean the tank by breaking up what's at the bottom, how do we practically do this? Shove a  hose down the toilet pan as I've seen suggested or some other way?

Until we know what sort of toilet you have we cant really advise. Maybe a photo or two would help

[David Mack]

I have recently removed two steel pumpout tanks from Belfast, both fitted with dump through toilets at one end of the tank. Neither tank had an inspection hatch. Ventilation on each tank was a single 22mm copper pipe with 3 or 4 90 degree elbows. We hadn't put blue in the tanks in the last 4 years, but they still niffed a bit. They were last pumped out, rinsed and pumped out again a year ago, and not used since, but still smelled a bit when I took them out. There was no noticeable 'pile of poo' under the toilet outlets, just 3/4 inch of smelly liquid in the bottom and quite a lot of rust (from the top of the tank, which was very thin in places - sides and bottom were fine). 

Their replacement will have 2 larger vent pipes, without elbow bends, and I am seriously thinking of fitting a bilge blower to one of them both to draw air through the tank, and to keep tank pressure a little below cabin pressure, to try and prevent smells coming up when the dump through valve is opened. I'll probably connect the bilge blower to a timer so it runs when someone is in the bathroom and for 10 or 15 minutes afterwards.

[Spudwynk]

Hi all

Thanks for all the tips. Finally got a photo from inside the loo. A bit obscured as when I push the lever water flows which affects the camera focusing.. A boater moored near me suggests it might be a macerator but I really still don't know

[Tony Brooks]

That looks like a dump-through with the pedal pushed down because I can see part of the semi-spherical "flap".  However, to identify the toilet we need a view of the front of the toilet and whatever you push or pull to operate it.

 

Here is an image but yours may differ in several respects.

You can see the foot pedal on the right, but they also come on the left and some are made from shaped metal bar.

 

 

[Crewcut]

On 16/08/2022 at 05:13, David Mack said:

I have recently removed two steel pumpout tanks from Belfast, both fitted with dump through toilets at one end of the tank. Neither tank had an inspection hatch. Ventilation on each tank was a single 22mm copper pipe with 3 or 4 90 degree elbows. We hadn't put blue in the tanks in the last 4 years, but they still niffed a bit. They were last pumped out, rinsed and pumped out again a year ago, and not used since, but still smelled a bit when I took them out. There was no noticeable 'pile of poo' under the toilet outlets, just 3/4 inch of smelly liquid in the bottom and quite a lot of rust (from the top of the tank, which was very thin in places - sides and bottom were fine). 

Their replacement will have 2 larger vent pipes, without elbow bends, and I am seriously thinking of fitting a bilge blower to one of them both to draw air through the tank, and to keep tank pressure a little below cabin pressure, to try and prevent smells coming up when the dump through valve is opened. I'll probably connect the bilge blower to a timer so it runs when someone is in the bathroom and for 10 or 15 minutes afterwards.

 

A 12v computer fan would do this very well, leave on 24/7 very quiet and uses hardly any power. Makes a world of difference on my home made separator loo (that I use responsibly & properly 😉)

[Tonka]

You become immune to the smell after 30 years

[OldGoat]

1 hour ago, Tonka said:

You become immune to the smell after 30 years

Absolutely

By chance I fould some hospital grade deteergent in an 'empty' bulk contaner of the stuff, downloaded and read the product specs  and gave it a try . Magic, all the smells disapeared instanta.

Only a small quantity - 10 - 20 ml needed. All you need is a commercial / hospital source...

Sooo- it can be done, but there are other solutions that work almost as well

 

After 30+ years of boat ownership it's the only product that really worked. 'Problem is it's not available on general sale.

My supply will go with the boat when its sold....

[Tracy D'arth]

Commercial detergent is possibly Teepol.

 

https://www.teepol.co.uk/products/hb7.html  There is a MSDS here.

[ditchcrawler]

52 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Commercial detergent is possibly Teepol.

 

https://www.teepol.co.uk/products/hb7.html  There is a MSDS here.

You can clean almost anything with that, lot cheaper that bottles of Fairy Liquid 

[Spudwynk]

15 hours ago, Crewcut said:

 

A 12v computer fan would do this very well, leave on 24/7 very quiet and uses hardly any power. Makes a world of difference on my home made separator loo (that I use responsibly & properly 😉)

So where do install the fan?

[Tony Brooks]

19 minutes ago, Spudwynk said:

So where do install the fan?

 

Don't you think that it would be best to properly identify the toilet type you have before trying to solve the issue?  I don't see how you can rely upon some random bod saying it is a macerator unless you are sure of his experience. Some of your posts have appeared to me to be more confusing than enlightening. I accept that there is probably much you do not understand and are trying to be helpful, but I would like to know more about what things you have under the bed. They may not have anything to do with the toilet but unless identified how can anyone know. Getting photos may well require that the mattress be removed, and the boards unscrewed and removed for access.

 

I think many macerator systems fit a charcoal filter on the holding tank breather, and they need regular changing. There have been cases of them venting into the boat, rather than to the outside. In some cases they have been contaminated by effluent. I think some vacuum systems may use similar. If your toilet is one of these then changing the filter or routing it to the outside might be all that is required.

 

If it is a dump-through (which is what it looks like to me) then a computer fan needs to go into a breather pipe but unless you fit a second decent sized breather the fan will probably do very little unless the "flap" is opened and if it is the volume of water and doings falling into the tank is very likely to be greater than the air the fan can shift so you will still get some blowback of tank air.

 

Whatever type of toilet it is you won't do much harm trying some of the product and procedures others have said worked for them but if it is a dump-through you need to identify the tank breather(s), their size, and where they exit the boat. Then think about making them largef, fitting a second one, and fitting a computer fan in one.

 

[blackrose]

Follow Tony's advice and identify what type of toilet it actually is. Nobody can really tell you where to install the fan until they have a better idea of your existing venting system. 

 

A computer fan left on continuously will vent the tank headspace and stop it smelling when not in use, but as Tony says it may not be powerful enough to prevent smells coming back into the boat when the toilet is in use. The basic principal is that when you dump solids or liquids into the tank the same volume of smelly air in the tank is displaced and has to escape. If the path of least resistance is straight back up through the open toilet bowl then that's what will happen.

 

So if you do install a computer fan then rig it up temporarily because if you find it isn't powerful enough you may need to replace it with a bilge blower that you would only switch on when using the toilet. I have done this on my Thetford cassette toilet (which is basically a mini-dump through toilet) and it works very well. But a computer fan is only a few quid so it's worth trying first.