Nasty niffs from pump out

[Spudwynk]

Hi all

Looking for some advice for our new to us boat. Had first weekend on it last weekend. Cleaned loo and chucked down plenty of blue - probably too much before using.

 

Went home for the week.  Back tonight and after first flush the bedroom started smelling quite nasty. Because of the heat all the hoppers were open. I know pump outs have fans for air circulation but don't know if the smells are pumped out of the hull and simply coming back in through the hoppers or whether it's something else causing it

 

Any ideas on what I can investigate?

 

When we flush we hear a whirring under the bed going and it seems to go for rather a long time compared to the water coming through. There is various kit under the bed we can see through the slats but can't easily get at to investigate.  When we get to making an extendable bed we will get to have a better look

 

Thanks 

[MtB]

My advice is dump the pump, and get a cassette.

 

I moved moorings once as the boat next to me with a pump-out stank so badly. 

 

(Or should that be 'stunk'? 😅 )

[reg]

Not helped by current heat. Might be worth waiting for cooler weather to see if it is a real problem under normal conditions.

[Tony Brooks]

5 hours ago, Spudwynk said:

I know pump outs have fans for air circulation but don't know if the smells are pumped out of the hull and simply coming back in through the hoppers or whether it's something else causing it

 

To the best of my knowledge very few pump outs have fans. Those very few that do are usually fitted by the owner. It is the so called composting toilets that use fans and even then not all of them.

 

You don't say what type of pump out, dump through, macerator, vacuum, or in rarer cases sea toilet.

 

Very, very few holding tanks seem to be fitted with adequate breathers, that would be a minimum of two with 1" bores, one at either end of the tank to try to ensure air flow and thus oxygen for the microbes floe across the effluent. This helps the aerobic microbes to breed and survive, these do not tend to create smells. Without sufficient air flow you breed the anaerobic ones, and they are the ones that create smells. Ordinary Blue is not a lot of help unless you pump out weekly like most hire boats. It tends to kill the aerobic microbes but does is less effective on the anaerobic ones. I used one of the "green" alternatives that sought to encourage microbe growth but those available today seem less effective. Others report good results from adding years of oxyaction type laundry powder. So me report good results from cleaning the tank and then not adding anything. Loads of other topics on here discussing this.

 

If it is a dump through where the water drains from the bowl change or clean the rubber seals and refit with silicon grease.

[Spudwynk]

Thanks. We think it is a dump through as its like a hire boat loo but not seen other types to compare 

[Tony Brooks]

24 minutes ago, Spudwynk said:

Thanks. We think it is a dump through as its like a hire boat loo but not seen other types to compare 

 

If it has a pedal that opens a "flap" to let the contents drop into the tank it is a dump through

[Bod]

When you leave the boat for more than 24 hrs, flush 2 bowls full of clean water.  This will flush away any pipe contents, replacing them with clean water, preventing festering sewage sitting in the pipes for days/weeks.

 

Bod

[George and Dragon]

8 hours ago, Spudwynk said:

Hi all

Looking for some advice for our new to us boat. Had first weekend on it last weekend. Cleaned loo and chucked down plenty of blue - probably too much before using.

 

Blue isn't advised for pumpout toilets - like Tony says it kills the aerobic bacteria which are the ones you need to prevent smells.

 

8 hours ago, Spudwynk said:

Went home for the week.  Back tonight and after first flush the bedroom started smelling quite nasty. Because of the heat all the hoppers were open. I know pump outs have fans for air circulation but don't know if the smells are pumped out of the hull and simply coming back in through the hoppers or whether it's something else causing it

 

Any ideas on what I can investigate?

 

When we flush we hear a whirring under the bed going and it seems to go for rather a long time compared to the water coming through. There is various kit under the bed we can see through the slats but can't easily get at to investigate.  When we get to making an extendable bed we will get to have a better look

 

Our holding tank is under the bed; the flush process goes: water pump runs and water flows into bowl, water stops running while pump continues (presumably refilling a small header tank), valve opens to allow bowl contents into holding tank, short pause during which the water pump stops then water flows into the bowl (pump restarts) for a few seconds before the valve closes and water continues to flow until the level in the bowl is usually just above the level of the outlet tube, water pump continues to run as before.

 

8 hours ago, Spudwynk said:

Thanks 

 

You're welcome  

 

5 minutes ago, Bod said:

When you leave the boat for more than 24 hrs, flush 2 bowls full of clean water.  This will flush away any pipe contents, replacing them with clean water, preventing festering sewage sitting in the pipes for days/weeks.

 

We don't have to do this, boat is often left for several weeks between visits.

Edited August 13, 2022 by George and Dragon
spacing merged replies

[howardang]

Did you use any cleaning fluid containing bleach? If you did this could be the source of the nasty niffs. Try and avoid anything to clean the toilet which contains bleach.

 

Howard

[Tonka]

The whirring could be the macerator pump if that type of toilet or it could be the water pump.

[George and Dragon]

10 minutes ago, Tonka said:

The whirring could be the macerator pump if that type of toilet or it could be the water pump.

Sorry, yes, I missed the macerator whirring from my description.

[Tony Brooks]

52 minutes ago, Bod said:

When you leave the boat for more than 24 hrs, flush 2 bowls full of clean water.  This will flush away any pipe contents, replacing them with clean water, preventing festering sewage sitting in the pipes for days/weeks.

 

Bod

 

Definitely for a macerator or vacuum, but the OP seems to have a dump through so unless it has very strange pump out pipework there are no pipes for effluent to lie in. In any case if it did in a system prone to that sort of thing it indicates a poor hose run or the need to change from hose to plastic or copper pipe. From later descriptions I am not sure what they have. My tank was under the bed, but it extended through the bulkhead, allowing the toilet can sit over it. I would have thought a very common arrangement on dump throughs.

 

57 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

water stops running while pump continues (presumably refilling a small header tank)

 

That "presumably" is another mother of all cock-ups. Few domestic water systems have header tanks of any sort, but many have an accumulator. My guess is that the pump continuing to run is just refilling the accumulator. Accumulators tend to minimize the domestic water pump cycling (not totally stop it) and in a few systems also act as an expansion vessel for when the calorifier s heating up. Most have a separate expansion vessel, and they tend to be identical to the accumulator, but with different air pressures inside. I think there is a sufficient discussion about boat water systems to help people understand them in the course notes on my website.

[George and Dragon]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

That "presumably" is another mother of all cock-ups. Few domestic water systems have header tanks of any sort, but many have an accumulator. My guess is that the pump continuing to run is just refilling the accumulator. Accumulators tend to minimize the domestic water pump cycling (not totally stop it) and in a few systems also act as an expansion vessel for when the calorifier s heating up. Most have a separate expansion vessel, and they tend to be identical to the accumulator, but with different air pressures inside. I think there is a sufficient discussion about boat water systems to help people understand them in the course notes on my website.

 

Of course!

[blackrose]

12 hours ago, MtB said:

(Or should that be 'stunk'? 😅 )

 

 

Stink, stank, stunk. 

[Victor Vectis]

Stanking planks?

[Spudwynk]

Thanks everyone. Yes there is a pedal which we push and it seems like it sumps through but I also think k there's is a vacuum element to it in the way the way seems to be sucked down into the tank. 

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, Spudwynk said:

Thanks everyone. Yes there is a pedal which we push and it seems like it sumps through but I also think k there's is a vacuum element to it in the way the way seems to be sucked down into the tank. 

Just use a torch to see into the tank when you flush if it is a dump through. Our previous boat had not been pumped out for 3 years when we bought it.

[ditchcrawler]

If the tank is under the bed I doubt its a dump through. The only smell should come out of the vent outside the boat, regardless of what the tank contents smell like. If you have a charcoal filter on the vent that could well be the source of the smell leaking into the cabin area. Even a dump through would only give a wiff while the peddle is depressed if in good condition

[Tonka]

27 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If the tank is under the bed I doubt its a dump through. The only smell should come out of the vent outside the boat, regardless of what the tank contents smell like. If you have a charcoal filter on the vent that could well be the source of the smell leaking into the cabin area. Even a dump through would only give a wiff while the peddle is depressed if in good condition

My dump through tank is under the dinette which is permanently left as a bed so it could be

[Tony Brooks]

2 hours ago, Tonka said:

My dump through tank is under the dinette which is permanently left as a bed so it could be

As I explained most of mine was.

 

We need photos to identify it.

[ditchcrawler]

This doesn't sound like a drop through to me 

"When we flush we hear a whirring under the bed going and it seems to go for rather a long time compared to the water coming through. There is various kit under the bed we can see through the slats but can't easily get at to investigate.  When we get to making an extendable bed we will get to have a better look"

[PD1964]

Have a look at this thread. I don’t know why no one has pointed you to it. These Newbies had a similar problem. Maybe try using the search engine for a quick reply, just click on the pic and it take you to the starter post, have a read it might be of use👍

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by PD1964

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

This doesn't sound like a drop through to me 

"When we flush we hear a whirring under the bed going and it seems to go for rather a long time compared to the water coming through. There is various kit under the bed we can see through the slats but can't easily get at to investigate.  When we get to making an extendable bed we will get to have a better look"

 

I agree with this, it sounds as if it might be a vacuum toilet now I see the talk of extra mechanisms.

[PD1964]

13 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I agree with this, it sounds as if it might be a vacuum toilet now I see the talk of extra mechanisms.

  Sounds like the usual second hand boat, smelly toilet scenario. Boat has been left for a while with a tank of crap that has mulched at the bottom of the tank. First thing that needs to be done is inspection cover off, break any compact  crap off the bottom up, pump out then clean the tank thoroughly back to plastic. Not nice but you will have a clean tank to start your livaboard lifestyle and if it keeps smelling it’s probably a vent sizing issue.

Edited August 14, 2022 by PD1964

[Spudwynk]

25 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

  Sounds like the usual second hand boat, smelly toilet scenario. Boat has been left for a while with a tank of crap that has mulched at the bottom of the tank. First thing that needs to be done is inspection cover off, break any compact  crap off the bottom up, pump out then clean the tank thoroughly back to plastic. Not nice but you will have a clean tank to start your livaboard lifestyle and if it keeps smelling it’s probably a vent sizing issue.

Any advice where the inspection cover may be? Have only doubt the pump out access tubes on the side of the boat. Not sure where there might be a vent either at this stage 

When you say clean the tank by breaking up what's at the bottom, how do we practically do this? Shove a  hose down the toilet pan as I've seen suggested or some other way?