Llangollen and maybe Montgomery advice please

[tree monkey]

14 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

A query directed to the technical nerds on this forum:  What would be required to provide advisory traffic lights for the narrows?  Obviously a power supply but what else and what would be the logic of the system? As a former single-hander I was always put off by the advice to send out a forward party.

I've done the narrows a fair few times and mostly single handed and tbh they are not as bad as people make out, the first narrows has a passing place and you can see if it's clear from the bridge prior, the second isn't that long and you can see the important bits from the start, it's worth noteing though they can be painfully slow heading upstream 

[Rob-M]

1 minute ago, tree monkey said:

I've done the narrows a fair few times and mostly single handed and tbh they are not as bad as people make out, the first narrows has a passing place and you can see if it's clear from the bridge prior, the second isn't that long and you can see the important bits from the start, it's worth noteing though they can be painfully slow heading upstream 

I'm not sure I was even making 1mph going through the narrows upstream, I contemplated getting off and pulling the boat as I am sure that would have been quicker.

[Jon57]

31 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I'm not sure I was even making 1mph going through the narrows upstream, I contemplated getting off and pulling the boat as I am sure that would have been quicker.

Hi we are on the Llangollen ATM. Aiming to go into the basin at some point. The previous owners of our boat did it which draws 2foot 10 inches at the Skeg. The water levels seem to be fine at the moment. Done this trip with our old boat ,and yes was slow going through the narrows etc. Apparently it’s even harder on the way back for some reason. He had to get help to bow haul it through some sections. Any one done it with boat with a similar draft. I know the fuel boat Mountbatten gets to Trevor but his hull is a proper shape😁 Question is should I attempt it . And if yes what your advice. Thanks  

[Rob-M]

6 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

Hi we are on the Llangollen ATM. Aiming to go into the basin at some point. The previous owners of our boat did it which draws 2foot 10 inches at the Skeg. The water levels seem to be fine at the moment. Done this trip with our old boat ,and yes was slow going through the narrows etc. Apparently it’s even harder on the way back for some reason. He had to get help to bow haul it through some sections. Any one done it with boat with a similar draft. I know the fuel boat Mountbatten gets to Trevor but his hull is a proper shape😁 Question is should I attempt it . And if yes what your advice. Thanks  

Just take it slowly, I've never measured our draft but I found just over tickover kept us moving slowly forward. Trying to use anymore engine revs didn't get us moving any quicker.

 

Coming back down on the same revs we were flying along.

[libali]

19 hours ago, IanD said:

 

If you're staring on a Tuesday I'd definitely suggest going away from Llangollen first, Tuesday/Wednesday nights are the busiest especially at this time of year.

 

I'd go the other way first, over the aqueduct and stop at Chirk Bank the first night (walk down to the Bridge Inn), then carry on east. Wherever you then go, maybe aim to get back to Llangollen on Sunday afternoon when it's quiet. That will then give you Monday in Llangollen to do things (walk up to Horseshoe Falls? Railway? Museum?), then moor at Trevor Basin (under the bridge past the hire base) on Monday night and walk over the aqueduct and up to the Aqueduct Inn for the last evening.

 

We are seriously considering this, it seems to make much more sense. Starting with Llangollen, as it's the key location for t'other half, was mainly to make sure we didn't miss it if we got held up anywhere. But it sounds like we might have been too cautious.

Does anyone have any arguments against us going the other way and finishing, rather than starting, with Llangollen?

[tree monkey]

1 hour ago, Rob-M said:

I'm not sure I was even making 1mph going through the narrows upstream, I contemplated getting off and pulling the boat as I am sure that would have been quicker.

I have done and no it wasn't faster

 

[Jon57]

16 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

Just take it slowly, I've never measured our draft but I found just over tickover kept us moving slowly forward. Trying to use anymore engine revs didn't get us moving any quicker.

 

Coming back down on the same revs we were flying along.

Yes that’s what I did on our old boat. This boat is a different animal. 😩

[davem399]

1 hour ago, Jon57 said:

Hi we are on the Llangollen ATM. Aiming to go into the basin at some point. The previous owners of our boat did it which draws 2foot 10 inches at the Skeg. The water levels seem to be fine at the moment. Done this trip with our old boat ,and yes was slow going through the narrows etc. Apparently it’s even harder on the way back for some reason. He had to get help to bow haul it through some sections. Any one done it with boat with a similar draft. I know the fuel boat Mountbatten gets to Trevor but his hull is a proper shape😁 Question is should I attempt it . And if yes what your advice. Thanks  

Our boat has a draft of about 2’8” and did the trip to the basin back in June.  We did scrape the bottom somewhere near bridge 34 both ways, but got through.  Elsewhere it was fine if you stuck to the centre of the channel.

[Pie Eater]

2 hours ago, libali said:

 

We are seriously considering this, it seems to make much more sense. Starting with Llangollen, as it's the key location for t'other half, was mainly to make sure we didn't miss it if we got held up anywhere. But it sounds like we might have been too cautious.

Does anyone have any arguments against us going the other way and finishing, rather than starting, with Llangollen?

I would do Llangollen at the start of your holiday if it is on someone's bucket list. You never know when you will be held up with breakdowns or queues.

 

If everything goes smooth and you make good time you may have time to do a second trip to Llangollen at the end of your holiday.

[libali]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has responded to my queries - so helpful and very much appreciated. We're off tomorrow and have decided to go to Chirk, Montgomery and onward, finishing up with Llangollen as @IanD suggested. When we plotted it out it made a lot of sense and felt right... Looking forward to it - let's hope it all works out!

[Ange]

Hope you have a wonderful holiday! Please let us know how you get on.

[libali]

Wonderful so far 🙂

Currently moored at Blake Mere.

We were 5 mins late getting to Frankton, having left ourselves (we thought) loads of time, but New Marton locks took a long time with nervous first time boaters. No problem though - I spoke to the CRT chap so he knew we were nearly there - and the Friends of the Montgomery had a fundraising stall where were able to pick up Welsh cakes and an unbelievably good Bakewell tart while we waited. 

The Montgomery was beautiful and definitely worth the trip. The only disappointment was that the Navigation Inn is not just closed on Mondays and Tuesdays as stated in Pearson (I know, we should have checked) but Wednesdays and possibly random other days too. We were moored up by the time we realised and didn't really have the time it the will to move on to the Queen's Head, and not enough food to stay on the boat, so it was a bit of a trek there and back. The food and service was excellent once we got there though. 

Frankton through to Ellesmere & Blake Mere also beautiful and not busy. 

 

[libali]

Meant to add a photo...

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, libali said:

Meant to add a photo...

We moored (twice) at Cole Mere a bit further along, which doesn't have such splendid views but does have a fantastic walk around the lake.

[manxmike]

On 13/08/2022 at 17:26, system 4-50 said:

A query directed to the technical nerds on this forum:  What would be required to provide advisory traffic lights for the narrows?  Obviously a power supply but what else and what would be the logic of the system? As a former single-hander I was always put off by the advice to send out a forward party.

Could always be done by the system used for some tunnels - 9 to 10 one way, 10.30 to 11.30 t'other and so on.

As far as locks on the Llangollen are concerned, don't worry, there are plenty of lift bridges which are almost as much fun(?) and can be even more awkward.

[IanD]

32 minutes ago, manxmike said:

Could always be done by the system used for some tunnels - 9 to 10 one way, 10.30 to 11.30 t'other and so on.

As far as locks on the Llangollen are concerned, don't worry, there are plenty of lift bridges which are almost as much fun(?) and can be even more awkward.

 

At least it's not the L&L... 😉

[TheBiscuits]

53 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

At least it's not the L&L... 😉

 

Not a fan of swingers, Ian?

[IanD]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Not a fan of swingers, Ian?

 

Not that kind, no. Or indeed the other kind... 😉

 

Locks -- love 'em, gimme more. Swing bridges in general and L&L ones in particular -- burning's too good for 'em... 😞

Edited August 19, 2022 by IanD

[Psychalist]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

Not that kind, no. Or indeed the other kind... 😉

 

Locks -- love 'em, gimme more. Swing bridges in general and L&L ones in particular -- burning's too good for 'em... 😞

Can't go round burning them! Where would the mink live?

Some look burnt out though, disused, rusty with rotten decks - but still have shiny portage signs despite being permanently open for decades.

[TheBiscuits]

4 hours ago, Psychalist said:

Some look burnt out though, disused, rusty with rotten decks - but still have shiny portage signs despite being permanently open for decades.

 

Those aren't portage signs, they're cyclist speed limiters ... Ouch!

 

 

[libali]

We're home and had a great time.

 

Best mooring: Blake Mere, by far

Best food: The Corn Mill in Llangollen (though we had several perfectly OK but quite average meals on this trip - nothing has come close to the Cape of Good Hope on the GU last year). Butty & Sweet are no longer at Trevor so we didn't try the famous bacon butties.

Best views: from the top of Dinas Brân was amazing, but a vertiginous trek. From the boat, the first time over Pontcysyltte was, of course, breathtaking.

 

Al the timings worked out well, though we left Ellesmere just before their carnival which was a shame. Had a little tour of the Saturn (1906 historic working boat) before leaving. The Llangollen was far from busy, though we got held up at New Marton locks in both directions - westwards there was a boat stuck in the top lock as one of the gates jammed. None of us could find the obstruction but the CRT arrived quickly with a v long extendable rake and sorted it out. 

 

Had to duck in to the passing place on the way up the narrows and on leaving, managed to pick the time when all the day boats were returning to Llangollen. But we had plenty of time so just tootled when we could. 

 

Astonishingly, the only rain we had was on the journey back to Trevor from Llangollen.

 

Thanks again for all the good and helpful advice. Next year either Peak Forest (my choice) or Kennet & Avon (his choice). And the Mon & Brec at some point over the next year or two, but I need some lock action before that.

 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

7 minutes ago, libali said:

We're home and had a great time.

 

Best mooring: Blake Mere, by far

Best food: The Corn Mill in Llangollen (though we had several perfectly OK but quite average meals on this trip - nothing has come close to the Cape of Good Hope on the GU last year). Butty & Sweet are no longer at Trevor so we didn't try the famous bacon butties.

Best views: from the top of Dinas Brân was amazing, but a vertiginous trek. From the boat, the first time over Pontcysyltte was, of course, breathtaking.

 

Al the timings worked out well, though we left Ellesmere just before their carnival which was a shame. Had a little tour of the Saturn (1906 historic working boat) before leaving. The Llangollen was far from busy, though we got held up at New Marton locks in both directions - westwards there was a boat stuck in the top lock as one of the gates jammed. None of us could find the obstruction but the CRT arrived quickly with a v long extendable rake and sorted it out. 

 

Had to duck in to the passing place on the way up the narrows and on leaving, managed to pick the time when all the day boats were returning to Llangollen. But we had plenty of time so just tootled when we could. 

 

Astonishingly, the only rain we had was on the journey back to Trevor from Llangollen.

 

Thanks again for all the good and helpful advice. Next year either Peak Forest (my choice) or Kennet & Avon (his choice). And the Mon & Brec at some point over the next year or two, but I need some lock action before that.

 

 

 

What did you think of the Monty? I loved it thirty years ago and was disappointed a couple of years ago when l went again, found it very dull. No idea what's changed, if anything except me. Most people seem to like it.

[libali]

1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

What did you think of the Monty? I loved it thirty years ago and was disappointed a couple of years ago when l went again, found it very dull. No idea what's changed, if anything except me. Most people seem to like it.

 

Loved it and would have liked to spend a bit more time there. But I love plants so was absorbed in seeing the diversity of species (most of which I couldn't name) and the general remoteness. 

[davem399]

12 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

What did you think of the Monty? I loved it thirty years ago and was disappointed a couple of years ago when l went again, found it very dull. No idea what's changed, if anything except me. Most people seem to like it.

We did the Monty for the first time back in June.  For me it was probably a bit too quiet, but OK if you like that sort of thing.

[robtheplod]

Just tagging onto this old thread as we are looking to visit the Monty in a few weeks. I'm thinking about visiting the Home | The British Ironwork Centre as it looks fairly close and has some interesting exhibits. Can you do the Monty in 2 days?