Black Country canals to transport more goods in new freight strategy

[fanshaft]

On 13/08/2022 at 16:17, jpcdriver said:

According to CRT notices the dredging thorugh Knottingley is supposed to be in progress from now until the end of August, presumably to allow the freight to resume.

Dredging in Knottingley, Ferrybridge and Castleford will be on-going until mid to late September after which the customer, AC Marine Aggregates Ltd,  wishes the barge deliveries to resume. It's possible that barges will start running before completion of the dredging depending on draft that becomes available.  If the Leeds deliveries settle down successfully then other destinations are planned.  Dredging is to 3 metres to allow full loads to be carried (at 2.5 metres) confirmed at a recent dredging group meeting.

[David Mack]

On 11/08/2022 at 05:30, Heartland said:

There is also the movement of waste and rubbish to a recycling facility which could be more widely adopted

It would an interesting exercise to see if bringing of waste from domestic and industrial sources to a canal depot could be a commercial operation if that waste could be separated and broken down for resale.

Caggy Stevens was carrying waste on the BCN until the 80s. But that was 40 years ago! 

[robtheplod]

On 12/08/2022 at 14:44, fanshaft said:

A motor narrow boat uses the same amount of fuel as a lorry to carry the same tonnage, but only slightly more than half the amount of fuel if towing a butty (fuel usage measured between Birmingham and London carrying 42 tonnes some years ago) .  A single motor narrow boat would not have a crew of two! 

CBOA first made contact with MC (with CRT) when first established some years ago but we didn’t seem to ‘connect’ with them at the time, if you will pardon the pun. We made contact again more recently and this seems to have borne fruit.

 

Clearly the major potential is with the Severn from the Bristol Channel ports (up to a Port Worcester, long proposed by CBOA member/operator Graham Thompson), plus, to a lesser degree, from the Humber Ports up the Trent to an inland terminal in Nottingham.  Obviously a Wolverhampton paper will promote its local waterways.  There could be some potential on the BCN for ‘last mile’ deliveries and maybe waste although some years ago a BW initiative, led by the excellent Tom Chaplin, failed to make headway.  Historically, of course, trains of 40 tonne wide narrow boats could be pulled by a tug around the very long Wolverhampton level with a crew, I think, of only three.

 

Thats interesting. I would have bet it would use less - less friction etc?  Maybe this is one of the reasons transporting via canal died out..

[peterboat]

8 hours ago, fanshaft said:

Dredging in Knottingley, Ferrybridge and Castleford will be on-going until mid to late September after which the customer, AC Marine Aggregates Ltd,  wishes the barge deliveries to resume. It's possible that barges will start running before completion of the dredging depending on draft that becomes available.  If the Leeds deliveries settle down successfully then other destinations are planned.  Dredging is to 3 metres to allow full loads to be carried (at 2.5 metres) confirmed at a recent dredging group meeting.

This is good news and John Dean junior will be pleased to hear it.

[Orwellian]

8 hours ago, fanshaft said:

Dredging in Knottingley, Ferrybridge and Castleford will be on-going until mid to late September after which the customer, AC Marine Aggregates Ltd,  wishes the barge deliveries to resume. It's possible that barges will start running before completion of the dredging depending on draft that becomes available.  If the Leeds deliveries settle down successfully then other destinations are planned.  Dredging is to 3 metres to allow full loads to be carried (at 2.5 metres) confirmed at a recent dredging group meeting.

That's interesting thank you. Do you know how much the dredging is costing?

[fanshaft]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

This is good news and John Dean junior will be pleased to hear it.

He is fully in the picture! 

59 minutes ago, Orwellian said:

That's interesting thank you. Do you know how much the dredging is costing?

Budget £620, 000 but may be less depending on contamination. Hopefully most material can go to Methley and Bank Dole tips so that will reduce costs considerably. To put into context this is in line with narrow canal dredging costs though at least one in the programme is over £1 million. . 

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, fanshaft said:

He is fully in the picture! 

What about the other boats that were running before operations closed down, will they all return?

[Orwellian]

5 minutes ago, fanshaft said:

He is fully in the picture! 

Budget £620, 000 but may be less depending on contamination. Hopefully most material can go to Methley and Bank Dole tips so that will reduce costs considerably. To put into context this is in line with narrow canal dredging costs though at least one in the programme is over £1 million. . 

Thank you.

[fanshaft]

2 hours ago, robtheplod said:

Thats interesting. I would have bet it would use less - less friction etc?  Maybe this is one of the reasons transporting via canal died out..

When you say canal you mean narrow canal.   There were multiple reasons- reduction in use of coal and closure of canal side factories, gas works and small power stations for example. Also the move towards containerisation. 

6 minutes ago, peterboat said:

What about the other boats that were running before operations closed down, will they all return?

Fusedale was the other boat running with Farndale and is ready to.load in Albert Dock.  Other boats may come on as needed/  available. Fossdale did one trip. 

[peterboat]

4 minutes ago, fanshaft said:

When you say canal you mean narrow canal.   There were multiple reasons- reduction in use of coal and closure of canal side factories, gas works and small power stations for example. Also the move towards containerisation. 

Fusedale was the other boat running with Farndale and is ready to.load in Albert Dock.  Other boats may come on as needed/  available. Fossdale did one trip. 

I remember them all prepped and ready to go when JohnV and I went out of ocean lock, never saw them operating though. They unfortunately sat there for a long time afterwards 

[jpcdriver]

On this day 2022 (as we say on another topic, but thought more relevant here):

 

Unfortunately, no sign of any action this morning (at 09:30).

[fanshaft]

3 hours ago, jpcdriver said:

On this day 2022 (as we say on another topic, but thought more relevant here):

 

Unfortunately, no sign of any action this morning (at 09:30).

There was some prepping work to do before the actual dredging but don't have details. Supervisor on job is ex BW, historic boat owner and very respected.  Dredger driver, if same as last time, is from a boating family and very experienced.  

[Stroudwater1]

On 15/08/2022 at 09:45, fanshaft said:

Budget £620, 000 but may be less depending on contamination. Hopefully most material can go to Methley and Bank Dole tips so that will reduce costs considerably. To put into context this is in line with narrow canal dredging costs though at least one in the programme is over £1 million. . 

Is none of the dredgings able to be sold ?
 

The Cotswold canal trust leave them on a field for a while to dry then I believe the stuff is sold or passed on commercially, I think for road projects ironically via the council? 

[fanshaft]

That's interesting as we discussed this at the most recent CRT dredging meeting. We were told that material removed from a waterway to assist navigation is classed as waste by DEFRA and has to be treated as such. Anyone being given or buying the material would need the appropriate waste transfer permits. However it's being discussed with DEFRA whether material which is then processed can be exempted. I believe material can be spread on farmers' fields though some make a charge. Material dredged from the Trent and Weaver can be good quality sand hence the initiative. 

[peterboat]

12 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Is none of the dredgings able to be sold ?
 

The Cotswold canal trust leave them on a field for a while to dry then I believe the stuff is sold or passed on commercially, I think for road projects ironically via the council? 

I think dredging from the Chesterfield were spread on the fields last time? We had a thread on it on here 

[Stroudwater1]

5 hours ago, fanshaft said:

That's interesting as we discussed this at the most recent CRT dredging meeting. We were told that material removed from a waterway to assist navigation is classed as waste by DEFRA and has to be treated as such. Anyone being given or buying the material would need the appropriate waste transfer permits. However it's being discussed with DEFRA whether material which is then processed can be exempted. I believe material can be spread on farmers' fields though some make a charge. Material dredged from the Trent and Weaver can be good quality sand hence the initiative. 

this makes me wonder if I have imagined it 🤣 I’m sure I read the council use for the dredgings , must have been in a fairly recent Trow magazine 

Here is the latest Blog though  where with some moving around the aim is to sell the current significant amount of dredgings on as soil improver 

https://cotswoldcanalsrestoration.co.uk/harpers-field-silt-handling/

[fanshaft]

Thanks much appreciated. Yes in to farmers fields seems to be permitted. Maybe farmer has waste receiving licence.

[Ronaldo47]

I remember that, in the run-up to the London Olympics, much was made of the renovation of the Bow Backwaters and its derelict lock that would enable large capacity lighters to transport the aggregates required for constructing the Olympic facilities in an environmentally-friendly manner.   In the event I don't think anything got transported by water. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Ronaldo47
typos

[Tim Lewis]

7 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

I remember that, in the run-up to the London Olympics, much was made of the renovation of the Bow Backwaters and its derelict lock that would enable large capacity lighters to transport the aggregates required for constructing the Olympic facilities in an environmentally-friendly manner.   In the event I don't think anything got transported by water. 

 It wasn’t a derelict lock but a brand new lock, now called Theee Mills Lock, incorporating a weir which made the waterways through the Olympic park non tidal, it was built too late to be any real use for the games construction. Even if it had been built earlier it was not really needed as little waste left the park, the contaminated waste was treated on site and it already contained a major rail head for the importation of aggregates

[Up-Side-Down]

12 hours ago, fanshaft said:

Thanks much appreciated. Yes in to farmers fields seems to be permitted. Maybe farmer has waste receiving licence.

A couple of years back Scottish Canals had a scheme to turn dredgings into the equivalent of breeze blocks for the construction industry. It looks like this has ........ er ......... sunk! Might ask the COO about it now that it has come to mind.

[Up-Side-Down]

22 hours ago, Up-Side-Down said:

A couple of years back Scottish Canals had a scheme to turn dredgings into the equivalent of breeze blocks for the construction industry. It looks like this has ........ er ......... sunk! Might ask the COO about it now that it has come to mind.

Response from Scottish Canals:

 

"We have made concrete blocks from segregated dredgings recovered from Laggan Spout on the Caledonian Canal. There is an aspiration to utilise dredgings from Ratho as well but I haven’t had the feedback from the university yet on the suitability of the material. We are also moving closer to producing a topsoil – not quite there yet but I remain hopeful!

 

"Plan is to install the blocks at Bowling to trial their durability in tidal waters. I’ve attached some pictures of the blocks which have been produced so far."

[magpie patrick]

On 12/08/2022 at 15:49, Heartland said:

On a  negative side as Mr Magpie Junior, might confirm consultant costs for such preparatory investigations can kill off a project. 

 

Consultants compliant with the road lobby are the biggest problem! I often only get to see the investigations after the event, and even though we can pick holes in the research by then it's a done deal between a developer who never wanted water transport and an authority who don't understand it. 

[Up-Side-Down]

8 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 

Consultants compliant with the road lobby are the biggest problem! I often only get to see the investigations after the event, and even though we can pick holes in the research by then it's a done deal between a developer who never wanted water transport and an authority who don't understand it. 

Spot on!

 

Would you be happy for me to use this as a quote in a future freight piece for publication?

[Tracy D'arth]

How about opening Dudley Port as a container terminal, a bit of tunnel widening may be necessary?

[Heartland]

Spot on!

 

Would you be happy for me to use this as a quote in a future freight piece for publication?

 

Where? and it would be useful to do this 

 

May be you are on the way to lateral thinking to develop waterway transport