Lock protest in France

[Boaty Jo]

A foretaste of things to come??

[Jen-in-Wellies]

No need for farmers to do that in England. We have CaRT to make locks inoperable and stop boats moving.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Jen-in-Wellies

[LadyG]

I always had the impression that French canals were used for commercial navigation, so barge owners could  be put in a difficult position.

[Naughty Cal]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I always had the impression that French canals were used for commercial navigation, so barge owners could  be put in a difficult position.

Depends on the waterway. A lot are now mostly leisure and tourism based.

[peterboat]

Over here farmers are removing millions of gallons of water from the waterways, in reality what is more important food or our play?

[frangar]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Over here farmers are removing millions of gallons of water from the waterways, in reality what is more important food or our play?

Maybe if they invested in their own reservoirs rather than screwing the ecosystem for everyone but farmers never do like to spend their own money…

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, frangar said:

Maybe if they invested in their own reservoirs rather than screwing the ecosystem for everyone but farmers never do like to spend their own money…

They are spending their own money they have to buy the water  and pay to pump it out, all to put food on your table 

Edited August 9, 2022 by peterboat

[LadyG]

18 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Over here farmers are removing millions of gallons of water from the waterways, in reality what is more important food or our play?

Water extraction is a significant income earner for CRT, of course, but it's not uncontrolled as letting canals dry out is not going to work either!

Farmers would build reservoirs if it was commercially viable,  but rain tends to fall in the highlands and ends up in the lowlands via water courses. Most small reservoirs, dug out for various reasons dry out at this time of year, so generally a bad idea for irrigation, or wildlife.

Gardeners sometimes catch rainfall off house roofs in to water butts, but I've never seen arable farmers doing this, the area of roofing in proportion to land area is insignificant.

Edited August 9, 2022 by LadyG

[Jen-in-Wellies]

French farmers do have a bit of a reputation for taking direct action, when they are aren't happy.

[frangar]

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

They are spending their own money they have to buy the water  and pay to pump it out, all to put food on your table 

I bet an extraction licence is a lot cheaper than a reservoir…..and a lot of the crops….eg maize..are for  animal feedstock…which is a very inefficient way of providing food for humans…perhaps if we were that worried then people could give up meat as a source of protein. 

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Water extraction is a significant income earner for CRT, of course, but it's not uncontrolled as letting canals dry out is not going to work either!

Only when the farmers pay for it……

[LadyG]

23 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

French farmers do have a bit of a reputation for taking direct action, when they are aren't happy.

Farmers are never happy of course, at this time of year they need warm dry days to ripen grain and harvest wheat, barley, etc, but rapeseed is a bit tricky as it can't be too hot, or it gets too dry for optimum oil production.

Rain is also needed to replace soil moisture otherwise new seeds won't germinate.

UK agriculture is not a politically strong sector, very different in France.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by LadyG

[Bee]

35 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Over here farmers are removing millions of gallons of water from the waterways, in reality what is more important food or our play?

Food. But this year many canals are unnavigable, unless the human race gets realistic about the incredible seriousness and speed of climate change in a couple of years there will not be any water in the canals for food either. This is not a process that will reach a certain level that we can adjust to, it is continuing and accelerating and will not stop. When we first moved our boat to France about 10 years ago closures were uncommon and late in the year, now they are normal and much earlier. If I had been thinking of getting a boat built for France, by, for example, Piper, I would be thinking that its not worth it. 

[peterboat]

18 minutes ago, Bee said:

Food. But this year many canals are unnavigable, unless the human race gets realistic about the incredible seriousness and speed of climate change in a couple of years there will not be any water in the canals for food either. This is not a process that will reach a certain level that we can adjust to, it is continuing and accelerating and will not stop. When we first moved our boat to France about 10 years ago closures were uncommon and late in the year, now they are normal and much earlier. If I had been thinking of getting a boat built for France, by, for example, Piper, I would be thinking that its not worth it. 

I agree with you totally, people are listening though which is a shame, I am 64 and expect to die of old age, but my kids and grandkids won't be so lucky unless real change happens!

Russia, USA  are way behind the game so are a lot of European countries 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, frangar said:

Maybe if they invested in their own reservoirs rather than screwing the ecosystem for everyone but farmers never do like to spend their own money…

 

About 4 or 5 years ago we sold off about 60 acres of land to the local 'Estate' into / onto which they have built a 1.2 million litres (to freeboard) reservoir as phase one, and plan to build another the same size alongside it as phase 2. The cost of building phase 1 was just over £5 million, which will probably seem cheap if we continue to get these dry Summers.

 

Not many farms would have that sort of money available.

 

They already have 5 smaller reservoirs alongside the land we sold them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, frangar said:

I bet an extraction licence is a lot cheaper than a reservoir…..and a lot of the crops….eg maize..are for  animal feedstock…which is a very inefficient way of providing food for humans…perhaps if we were that worried then people could give up meat as a source of protein. 

 

They still have to pay for an extraction licence to get the water to fill the reservoir, and they had to put in some 12 miles of underground piping to get to the River.

 

They grow several 1000 acres of maize which is used to feed the gasification plant they have which supplies gas into the 'mains'. They have also been granted planning permission to build a solar farm considting of 15,000 solar panels to feed power into the grid.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[David Schweizer]

3 hours ago, frangar said:

Maybe if they invested in their own reservoirs rather than screwing the ecosystem for everyone but farmers never do like to spend their own money…

 

Many Australian farmers do exactly that. The family farm where my son keeps his sheep and cattle have a series of small reservoirs, (known a dams) which run down the hillside each feeding the one immediately below it. They also collect rainwater off all the barn roofs, which is fed into large tanks, and they have a borehole. They are competely self sufficient in water, in a country which is a lot hotter and drier than the UK.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by David Schweizer

[Mike Todd]

4 hours ago, frangar said:

I bet an extraction licence is a lot cheaper than a reservoir…..and a lot of the crops….eg maize..are for  animal feedstock…which is a very inefficient way of providing food for humans…perhaps if we were that worried then people could give up meat as a source of protein. 

Only when the farmers pay for it……

That may be true right now but CaRT are now wise to the value of the water and have steadily increased their charges. I would be surprised if they are not actively seeking to find the tipping point at which their water becomes more expensive than from other sources. They will do their best (now) to maximise their income (which is not always the same as just putting up prices)

[ditchcrawler]

6 hours ago, frangar said:

I bet an extraction licence is a lot cheaper than a reservoir…..and a lot of the crops….eg maize..are for  animal feedstock…which is a very inefficient way of providing food for humans…perhaps if we were that worried then people could give up meat as a source of protein. 

 

Around here they build a reservoir and still need an extraction licence to sell it as there would be no where near enough rain, it would take 150" of rain to fill it. Its a win win toe the EA as the farmer pays to extract it and the EA then doesn't have to spend money pumping what he extracted into the sea.

[LadyG]

6 hours ago, frangar said:

Maybe if they invested in their own reservoirs rather than screwing the ecosystem for everyone but farmers never do like to spend their own money…

If you want to run an agricultural business, I suggest you buy a farm, say £4 to  £10 million, and see how you manage selling eggs at £0.25p each. Milk at £0.20p a litre and wheat at £120 to £220 a tonne. A nice new grain harvester comes in at £100K. Cows need to drink 4.5 l of water to produce 1 l of milk. They need to drink water every day, so the farmer either buys water, or goes bankrupt. Most crops being irrigated are high input crops, eg potatoes, they often need plenty of water to be profitable.

 

Edited August 9, 2022 by LadyG

[frangar]

29 minutes ago, LadyG said:

If you want to run an agricultural business, I suggest you buy a farm, say £4 to  £10 million, and see how you manage selling eggs at £0.25p each. Milk at £0.20p a litre and wheat at £120 to £220 a tonne. A nice new grain harvester comes in at £100K. Cows need to drink 4.5 l of water to produce 1 l of milk. They need to drink water every day, so the farmer either buys water, or goes bankrupt. Most crops being irrigated are high input crops, eg potatoes, they often need plenty of water to be profitable.

 

I’ve never known a poor farmer….they might plead it but I guess when you are down to your last rolls Royce times are hard…..and before the bleating starts I do actually know farmers….none of them are queueing at the food bank…..

[Tracy D'arth]

3 minutes ago, frangar said:

I’ve never known a poor farmer….they might plead it but I guess when you are down to your last rolls Royce times are hard…..and before the bleating starts I do actually know farmers….none of them are queueing at the food bank…..

Partially true, not Rolls Royces but Mercs usually.   I do know of some that have gone bust or had to sell up in the last 5 years. In the present situation I suspect there will be more.

[peterboat]

48 minutes ago, frangar said:

I’ve never known a poor farmer….they might plead it but I guess when you are down to your last rolls Royce times are hard…..and before the bleating starts I do actually know farmers….none of them are queueing at the food bank…..

High suicide rates amongst farmers as well 😪

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, frangar said:

I’ve never known a poor farmer….they might plead it but I guess when you are down to your last rolls Royce times are hard…..and before the bleating starts I do actually know farmers….none of them are queueing at the food bank…..

Ive never seen one on a push bike. Seen plenty in Range Rovers.

[ditchcrawler]

And when a modern farmer dies you often find the farm is in trust so no tax to pay. Both the large farms that own all the land in our village are both trusts

[peterboat]

5 hours ago, frangar said:

I’ve never known a poor farmer….they might plead it but I guess when you are down to your last rolls Royce times are hard…..and before the bleating starts I do actually know farmers….none of them are queueing at the food bank…..

High suicide rates amongst farmers as well 😪

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

And when a modern farmer dies you often find the farm is in trust so no tax to pay. Both the large farms that own all the land in our village are both trusts

That's a good thing is all I can say otherwise we would no real farms for food production