A less noisy engine question.

[Tigerr]

Ive reached the age where dangling upside down in a hot engine hole isn't really on. So, next boat has to have an engine room. 

Hence - we're looking at 70', and a new world of engines. Plus 'boatmans cabins' - frankly a bit of stunted growth 'working man  disney fetish' I could do without but a fully rear mounted practical engine room is a rarity indeed. 

Thing is, I loved the almost silent running of my old well-insulated beta 43 hole, with a huge silencer. Hearing the natural world not an engine, and conversing with my partner up the front. 

I've looked at a few possible boats now, and blimey there is a variance.

Saw a lovely Gardner 2LW and it was relatively quiet.

A Beta JP3 was about as loud as the 43. Engine clatter not exhaust. Undestand the merits of current models etc but that's not for us.You couldn't take a nap in the bedroom with that going on. I think because it ran at 1500.

Don't think a shrouded easy access engine is a realistic option, but I'd like something that you can talk over, or at least isn't a nuisance.

So, to take advantage of forum expertise - what's the quiet option to be looking out for in the kind of motor I am going to find in an engine room?  I am assuming the start point is low revs, vintage. 

 

[booke23]

On reading the title of your post, I immediately thought of Gardner which you've already seen. I'd say anything slow revving that has a silencer should fit the bill....some vintage engines have straight through exhausts and have quite a bark from the exhaust so you'd want to avoid that. I always think the Russel Newberry DM2 sounds refined and quiet.

Edited August 1, 2022 by booke23

[Tigerr]

1 minute ago, booke23 said:

On reading the title of your post, I immediately thought of Gardener which you've already seen. I'd say anything slow revving that has a silencer should fit the bill....some vintage engines have straight through exhausts and have quite a bark from the exhaust so you'd want to avoid that. I always think the Russel Newberry DM2 sounds refined and quiet.

Thanks for the reply. I'd thought similar. I know I can partly address exhaust noise, which leaves the question of engine mechanical noise. I guess I am looking for the lowest mechanical noise unit, so I can refine my search criteria. It can take a full day to travel, plus a hotel night in some cases, to go see a boat and anything that weeds them out is helpful. 

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, booke23 said:

On reading the title of your post, I immediately thought of Gardener which you've already seen.

 

 

 

Picture of a gardener:

 

 

 

[booke23]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

 

Picture of a gardener:

 

 

 

 

Thanks, damn autocorrect! I've fixed that now.

[Tracy D'arth]

JP3 Lister.  Simple, quiet, no oil filter or pump, slow revving.

 

I know where there is one for sale shortly in an excellent boat. PM me if you like.

[booke23]

I was also thinking Lister JP2, but I don't know how much fettling @Tigerr wants to be doing......they do like greese on their nipples every morning. 

[malp]

51 minutes ago, booke23 said:

On reading the title of your post, I immediately thought of Gardner which you've already seen. I'd say anything slow revving that has a silencer should fit the bill....some vintage engines have straight through exhausts and have quite a bark from the exhaust so you'd want to avoid that. I always think the Russel Newberry DM2 sounds refined and quiet.

 

They have many other strong points, but not sure that I'd consider a Russell Newbery DM2 particularly quiet or refined.   Going by the one in my boat anyway.

[booke23]

6 minutes ago, malp said:

 

They have many other strong points, but not sure that I'd consider a Russell Newbery DM2 particularly quiet or refined.   Going by the one in my boat anyway.

 

Not by modern standards, but I was thinking in relative terms. But you raise another good point....ie the same vintage engine could sound quite different from one boat to another depending on installation. 

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Tigerr said:

- what's the quiet option to be looking out for in the kind of motor I am going to find in an engine room?  I am assuming the start point is low revs, vintage.

Surely half the point of a vintage engine is the sound they make!

If you want silent, go electric (or at least hybrid).

[Bee]

Hydraulic drive? engine be anywhere that fits even across the boat or over one side to allow for an easy 'walk through'

[OldGoat]

34 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Surely half the point of a vintage engine is the sound they make!

If you want silent, go electric (or at least hybrid).

If you want silence - well as much as you can get in a practical  pachage put a freshwater cooled Beta in a well insulated box with an electric motor  drive with an huge battery pack for whenyou want it really, really, really quiet

[BEngo]

For quiet you want more cylinders.  Evens out the exhaust beats, reduces the internal loads as each power stroke can be smaller.  Six is best👹 because you then end up with a perfectly balanced engine, which a 2 cyl can only be if it has balancing shafts and much  engineering in the  design. 

 

 If you want vintage the JP and the FR were available as six pots, along with an assortment of Gardners,  The Petter PD (I think, though I always fancied the PD V8)  and the Kelvin  K.  Though the K6 has a bad rep for TV failures of the crank.  Other advantages of a vintage  6 pot include not needing much ballast, having power and to  spare for rivers, and serious bragging rights when the talk turns to engines.

 

Disadvantages include total impracticability,  needing about 15 feet of engine room, coking up cos you can only get the beasts warmed up on the Trent,  the Severn below Worcester or the Thames below Teddington, and not being able to go much slower than about 6mph.

 

Easier to buy some modern 4 pot that was designed to be quiet.  

 

Then fit an expansion box and a big hospital silencer with  plenty of sound deadening stuff round the inside of the engine hole.

 

N

[Jen-in-Wellies]

A horse!

Or are you going to say neigh to that?

[OldGoat]

18 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

A horse!

Or are you going to say neigh to that?

No - but CaRT would - I asked some years ago to bring mine onto the Shroppie and 'they' said No (can't remember if it was BW or CRT)

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

No - but CaRT would - I asked some years ago to bring mine onto the Shroppie and 'they' said No (can't remember if it was BW or CRT)

 

 

Better to beg forgiveness than ask permission....

 

~Anon~

 

 

[robtheplod]

Our Beta 43 with a f.....ng great hospital silencer is lovely and quiet if that's an option?

[booke23]

2 hours ago, robtheplod said:

Our Beta 43 with a f.....ng great hospital silencer is lovely and quiet if that's an option?

 

That’s what he’s already got……he wants quieter than that!

[cuthound]

20 hours ago, booke23 said:

 

That’s what he’s already got……he wants quieter than that!

 

Earplugs? 🤣😂

[Tigerr]

On 02/08/2022 at 17:54, robtheplod said:

Our Beta 43 with a f.....ng great hospital silencer is lovely and quiet if that's an option?

Is that in a room or a hole?

My Beta 43 in the soundproofed hole, likewise hospital silenced was so quiet people think we're electric. But  if I lift the lid on the hole, the engine is a right din! 

My challenge is I want a nice easy access engine in a room, no more holes for me, but I also want it as quiet as possible. I know I can mitigate exhaust noise easily enough but the mechanical clatter and roar, of eg the beta tug engine, was impossible to talk over.  

To make it worse I also dont want a 'boatmans cabin' which I find a pointless uncomfortable affectation. Likewise 'tug' decks with poky beds under. Particularly as I'm 6ft, and my brother 6ft 2! hydraulic drive is my ideal but very rare on the duck. 

I am resigned to a long search.

17 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Earplugs? 🤣😂

Ho ho ho! nearly fell of the chair! `top bantz!'

[booke23]

1 hour ago, Tigerr said:

hydraulic drive is my ideal but very rare on the duck. 

 

I did see a very nice one last year I think, with a front mounted cocooned engine and hydraulic drive so they do appear occasionally. However the whine from hydraulic drive is not insignificant, so I think hybrid electric would be the holy grail, but that'll cost ££££. 

[robtheplod]

2 hours ago, Tigerr said:

Is that in a room or a hole?

 

its in a hole I'm afraid......

 

not sure you'll get something quiet in a room unless you have serious soundproof encasing......... ?

[harrybsmith]

What about getting someone else to do the maintenance? Certainly wouldn't be my first choice but if you make "the engine is in a hole" someone else's problem then all you have to worry about is every other aspect of the design and performance of a new boat...

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, booke23 said:

 

I did see a very nice one last year I think, with a front mounted cocooned engine and hydraulic drive so they do appear occasionally. However the whine from hydraulic drive is not insignificant, so I think hybrid electric would be the holy grail, but that'll cost ££££. 

Mine doesn't whine, but I have heard those that do

Edited August 4, 2022 by ditchcrawler
spilling

[Mike Tee]

We have a 70' with hydraulic drive from a BD3, so backcabin is on the same level as the rest of the boat. Don't think it whines, it's a bit difficult to tell with the mechanical clatter from the BD3.

Previous boat had a RN DM2 - as to it sounding pleasant and refined, it did from the bank on tickover, but, from inside,  the mechanical clatter from that was intrusive to put it mildly. Wish I still had it though!