Norman boat I'd for age of boat and engine help please

[raymondjmrust]

HOPING SOMEONE CAN HELP ME I'D MY WATERMOTA ENGINE AND NORMAN BOAT

 

have a norman 22ft or 23ft cabin cruiser with a petrol inboard watermota sea tiger crossflow engine 1600cc mk2 dated 1972/1977 its the 711M6015BA I'm really confused to why she's got a engine installed so long after she was manufactured I'm hoping someone here can tell when she would have been manufactured and if the engine would be originally installed into her 

Edited July 31, 2022 by raymondjmrust
New photos

[BilgePump]

I've got a Ladyline guide to the Shropshire Union canal in front of me here, from late '72 or early '73. On the back cover is an advert for Norman boats. The pictured boat is a Norman '23 Mk 1 that looks like yours, within the '72-'77 range for the engine manufacture. However, of course your boat could be one of the earlier '22 models, not easy to tell without being able to see the side windows. Good page at https://normanboats.net/range/norman_range.htm for differentiating all the Callumraft/Normans.

[raymondjmrust]

[BilgePump]

Having realised that you've got a picture of your boat in your user pic, it does look more like the window and superstructure configuration of what is identified as a 22' Mk 3 on the page linked above. As the Mk 1 was available in 1967 and the 22' Mk 4 was being sold in the pre-decimal era (according to brochures at that website), then safe to assume that your hull is in that range. It's important to remember that you could just get basic mouldings from Norman and complete at home DIY. It could well have been that someone took a few years to get it ready for launch and the motor is original to the boat but a few years younger than the hull.

[raymondjmrust]

Same as the mk4 but windows in different order mate 

 

 

 

 

[BilgePump]

Cross posted before seeing your pics, but they do confirm what I was thinking. It does look like you say, the windows from a Mk 4, but the moulding on the superstructure looks more like the one identified as a Mk 3 (which isn't a definitive identification on the website).

[BilgePump]

The boat 'White Elephant' identified as a Mk4 on one page, has a different superstructure moulding to the one identified by the Norman brochure on another as a Mk 4, but the same style windows!

 

https://normanboats.net/cdgallery/app/web/upload/large/2_e7669949720b51393cc67e6ce0531401.jpg

Your boat seems to have a superstructure moulding more like the white one below, identified as a Mk 3, but that is certainly up for debate as there doesn't appear to be a brochure scan with a Mk 3.

 

It was probably possible at the time to get discounted older stock windows with a newer boat moulding or new windows to go in a discounted end of Mk moulding. You could get an out-of-the-catalogue current standard model from them for their boats but going directly to factory it was possible to get all sorts of offers, old stock, bare mouldings, imperfect mouldings, custom build, optional extras etc. For every 'standard' boat, there are by now probably even more 'non-standard' ones. People have hacked them, changed windows etc to a lot of boats but your windows look like an appropriate original style/shape to the superstructure moulding.

 

  

 

[BilgePump]

Your superstructure moulding is not the Mk 1 or Mk 4 from the brochures but does look like the boats in between. The top of the boat 'White Elephant' looks the same as yours, a Mk 2/3, but with the windows just in a different order, either out of layout preference or to emulate the new Mk 4 (identifiable by the step down in the superstructure moulding with the two small forward windows above it on each side). I suspect that the boat identified as a Mk 3, the white one pictured in my post above, has a non standard rear window, either at build or as a later enlargement of the original. Your window layout looks more in keeping with the slanted window theme of the time. If this puts the boat around the very late sixties then a few years to get it to water would still account for the discrepancy with engine age, or someone may just have blown/replaced their original one after a few years, not unknown. I hope someone can help you with details for the engine and date of manufacture

[Tony Brooks]

I think that we will need the Ford engine number to get that. I think it was stamped into a flat machined on the cylinder head, but I can't remember where. However, the amount of heavy rust might make that difficult to locate and read. Watamotor may have stamped their own number somewhere. The numbers & letters you have posted are mould, casting, or possibly part numbers. They are likely to be the same on hundreds of the castings.

 

Regrettably I don't know how to decode the Ford numbers.

[sans allumette]

@raymondjmrust

See here for info on your engine. The number "711M6015BA" seems to be the part number of the engine and does not give the date of manufacture.

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, sans allumette said:

@raymondjmrust

See here for info on your engine. The number "711M6015BA" seems to be the part number of the engine and does not give the date of manufacture.

 

When I was working with Ford the 1st two digits were the model year (ie 1st year of production) but parts were carried over onto other models and took the same part number with them, plus, the complete engine would have a manufacturing 'life' of several years.

 

That part number is for a Escort / Cortina 1600 Cross flow engine block (not a complete engine)

 

I'd suggest that the earliest it could be is 1971, and possibly some years younger.

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

When I was working with Ford the 1st two digits were the model year (ie 1st year of production) but parts were carried over onto other models and took the same part number with them, plus, the complete engine would have a manufacturing 'life' of several years.

 

Which is why the actual engine number will be needed for an accurate dating. Can you remember where on the engine they stamped the engine number? (I think Ford stamped, unlike BMC who used aluminium plates held on by drive rivets and tended to fall off)

[Alan de Enfield]

39 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Can you remember where on the engine they stamped the engine number?

 

I don't think there was a standard location but many of them were 'near' the starter motor.

We were a component supplier so had a full understanding of the numbering system of components rather than the finished vehicle / engine number.

 

After the two-digit year prefix series the component part numbers had a prefix of E for European vehicle part and W if it was a part available for Worldwide use. Ford USA, Mexico etc were not allowed to release E-number components for their local production and I had to work with Ford Standards and Engineering in Dearborn (USA) to get 'cross over' W numbers issued and the old E number deleted.

 

I have yet to find the serial numbers on my Boat (Ford) engines, but, I have found the Block number as has the OP.

I know the engine model and that is sufficient for getting parts.