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Dangerous and irresponsible hire practice


MrsM

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I might cause offense here:-

Just came to King's Sutton lock on the Oxford. At the landing was a beached hire boat from Twyford Wharf with 5 mature (and not particularly spritely) ladies on board. They were rather anxious and had only been on the boat, which they were hiring for the day, for 20 minutes. They were all COMPLETE newbies - had never been on a narrowboat before and had never been through a lock or seen how they work. They did not have the faintest clue what they were doing and asked for our help. They had phoned the hirer for help. 

Hubby started the job of refloating their boat and two of the ladies asked if they could help take our boat through the lock in the meantime so they could learn what to do. Granted these are only single locks but this has a 10'8" drop and the cill marking is not the clearest - not that they knew what the cill was, or that they must avoid hanging their boat up on it. 

The hirer arrived as we were taking our boat out of the lock. I am disgusted at the irresponsibility of not taking a group of newbie boaters through their first ever lock to ensure they will be safe. Conditions are not the easiest either due to difficulties getting close to the edge in the pound above the lock.

There is absolutely no excuse for putting people at risk - sheer laziness IMHO. Not good enough! 😠

Edited by MrsM
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5 minutes ago, haggis said:

I thought that day boats did not usually go through locks and assumed that it was the hire company who imposed the restriction 

 

Its not a rule. Plenty of operators run day boats, in an area where they would need to go through locks (or have a very boring 20-30 mins of canal boating.....)

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I have experienced similar. Meeting a hire boat coming towards me, he was fairly well over to his left, I naturally moved over to my right, but the hire boat kept coming towards me dead ahead.

When it became obvious that he was not changing course I quickly shot across his bow and passed right side to right side.

I did say that we were supposed to pass port side to port side and he replied "oh ok,thank you"

Either the hire company hadn't given a proper briefing, or this bloke hadn't been listening.

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2 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

I have experienced similar. Meeting a hire boat coming towards me, he was fairly well over to his left, I naturally moved over to my right, but the hire boat kept coming towards me dead ahead.

When it became obvious that he was not changing course I quickly shot across his bow and passed right side to right side.

I did say that we were supposed to pass port side to port side and he replied "oh ok,thank you"

Either the hire company hadn't given a proper briefing, or this bloke hadn't been listening.

Possibly a bit of both. Any briefing, even a morning or afternoon, is going to cover information at a rapid rate of knots and at a relatively basic level. Any complete newbie will be bamboozled by the basics when they come at such a speed. Even a VHF licence requires you to read and know the course book in advance and then do a full day course/exam. Anyone who pays their money (hirer or private) can take ten tons plus through a lock, cill themselves and cause chaos with only minimal prior experience.

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9 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

I have experienced similar. Meeting a hire boat coming towards me, he was fairly well over to his left, I naturally moved over to my right, but the hire boat kept coming towards me dead ahead.

When it became obvious that he was not changing course I quickly shot across his bow and passed right side to right side.

I did say that we were supposed to pass port side to port side and he replied "oh ok,thank you"

Either the hire company hadn't given a proper briefing, or this bloke hadn't been listening.

I met two hire boats, newbies from same hire company, and both were on wrong side. Now this is the absolute basic, there is no excuse. 

One lady, while I was helping them going through a lock told me they were given verbal instructions at such a fast rate they could not take anything in. 

Most hire companies are very happy to get feedback, I think.

I am perfectly OK with towing someone off, or giving advice, and I think everyone is happy with that scenario.

 

 

Some have basic lock instructions on the rear cabin, this should be on every hire boat imho.

Edited by LadyG
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5 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

Possibly a bit of both. Any briefing, even a morning or afternoon, is going to cover information at a rapid rate of knots and at a relatively basic level. Any complete newbie will be bamboozled by the basics when they come at such a speed. Even a VHF licence requires you to read and know the course book in advance and then do a full day course/exam. Anyone who pays their money (hirer or private) can take ten tons plus through a lock, cill themselves and cause chaos with only minimal prior experience.

Exactly right - if you can't picture how a lock works in your head then it's useless someone talking at you. You need to be taken through and shown. Simples.

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I do think handovers could be a lot better, having said that there is a lot to be said for hirers spending perhaps half an hour reading the boaters handbook and watching a few videos of how to use a lock before they show up to pick up their boat. That way they won't be completely clueless.

Edited by booke23
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I have hired a day boat with my son and grandsons, The amount of information they give you in a 20 minute handover is overwhelming so I can understand how people cant absorb it all especially older folk. Just think if you turn up for a 4 hour hire and they spend 2 hours explaining things to you.

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We've found the same problem at the Bearley lock on the S Straford. It is the first lock you come to after Wooten Wawen (Anglo Welsh hire base) and only about a mile away, but the hire base can't be bothered to show people how to use a lock. They get shown a Youtube video apparently!

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At least hirers get some instruction.

 

This is not the case with some first time buyers we have met and had to help through locks. They had not even hired before buying a boat!

 

Unfortunately only the most sensible hire or seek tuition before they buy a boat.

 

 

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Not defending this, just discussing things as we do on a discussion forum.....

I did talk to a hire base on this subject. They said its really difficult as the hirers just want to get on with the holiday, they said there is an attention span of 20minutes max but often much less than this, and they need to do operation of the boats systems, safety, basic boat handling, locks etc etc, and that its better to send instructions out beforehand, though many won't read them.  My own view is that everybody (except the experience) should be taken through a lock, and if they are not confident then supervised at a second lock.  I know that a few bases employ local liveabord boaters to do the instruction which is a good idea.

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The amount of information that needs to be given at the start of a hire is huge, not only how to steer,  pass on the right, lock operation going up and down, and mooring (using pins, armco pins, bollards or rings) but how the equipment on the boat works (starting and stopping the engine, electricity, inverter, lights, cooker, bilge pump etc). It's not possible to take everything you're being told in.

 

Even if the hire company accompany the hirers to the first lock and show them what to do there is no guarantee they will remember when they get to the second one.

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12 minutes ago, Barneyp said:

The amount of information that needs to be given at the start of a hire is huge, not only how to steer,  pass on the right, lock operation going up and down, and mooring (using pins, armco pins, bollards or rings) but how the equipment on the boat works (starting and stopping the engine, electricity, inverter, lights, cooker, bilge pump etc). It's not possible to take everything you're being told in.

 

Even if the hire company accompany the hirers to the first lock and show them what to do there is no guarantee they will remember when they get to the second one.

But when the first lock is only a short stroll away and the hirers are newbies there is no excuse not to take them through and evaluate to what extent they are safe to be let loose on their own. 

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A mate of mine is hiring a boat from Union wharf at Market Harborough. He sent me the information he’s been sent a month before the hire date. I have to say it’s very impressive and includes a Q and A. This of course is only any good if the hirer is bothered to read it. I’ve also witnessed a handover from this company and it was also impressive 

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1 minute ago, MrsM said:

But when the first lock is only a short stroll away and the hirers are newbies there is no excuse not to take them through and evaluate to what extent they are safe to be let loose on their own  . 

If the lock is close by I think the hire company should take newbies through, but lots of hire bases aren't next to a lock and it's not possible to send a member of staff to watch every boat go through a lock a couple of miles away.

Also you say "and evaluate to what extent they are safe to be let loose on their own" I don't think hire companies do that, if you've paid the money you get the boat. The responsibility is put on the hirer to know what they're doing, if they chose not to read the information provided in advance by the hire company or listen to the brief that's their responsibility.  

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1 hour ago, haggis said:

I thought that day boats did not usually go through locks and assumed that it was the hire company who imposed the restriction 

I seem to recall CRT have two licence classes for day hire boats - without locks and with locks, the latter being more expensive.

Some years ago I booked a day hire boat from Streethay for a family gathering, intending to boat through a few of the locks at Fradley, only to be told we had to go the other way - towards Fazeley. Have since hired from Bronte Boats at Hebden Bridge, where there wouldn't be much point in having a boat that wasn't allowed through locks!

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2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

We've found the same problem at the Bearley lock on the S Straford. It is the first lock you come to after Wooten Wawen (Anglo Welsh hire base) and only about a mile away, but the hire base can't be bothered to show people how to use a lock. They get shown a Youtube video apparently!

We were on the Stratford in April and were chatting with Anglo Welsh crew walking back from Bearley lock having seen hirers through ... so obviously they do on occasions.

 

"The day boat from Saltisford arm Warwick went down the Cape locks on Friday. 
 

Bod"

 

Saltie the Saltisford day boat is ALWAYS watched through the locks.

 

Rog

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2 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

I have experienced similar. Meeting a hire boat coming towards me, he was fairly well over to his left, I naturally moved over to my right, but the hire boat kept coming towards me dead ahead.

When it became obvious that he was not changing course I quickly shot across his bow and passed right side to right side.

I did say that we were supposed to pass port side to port side and he replied "oh ok,thank you"

Either the hire company hadn't given a proper briefing, or this bloke hadn't been listening.

Had the same with a private boat last week, as we passed on the wrong side they asked me if they were on the correct side, I quickly told them they should keep right.

2 hours ago, Chris John said:

A mate of mine is hiring a boat from Union wharf at Market Harborough. He sent me the information he’s been sent a month before the hire date. I have to say it’s very impressive and includes a Q and A. This of course is only any good if the hirer is bothered to read it. I’ve also witnessed a handover from this company and it was also impressive 

I watched them send two day boats out last week, they had a very lengthy explanation of what they were to do and then performed some manoeuvres in the basin before being let out on their own.  They don't do locks but I could hear the swing bridge operation being explained to them.

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1 hour ago, Barneyp said:

If the lock is close by I think the hire company should take newbies through, but lots of hire bases aren't next to a lock and it's not possible to send a member of staff to watch every boat go through a lock a couple of miles away.

Also you say "and evaluate to what extent they are safe to be let loose on their own" I don't think hire companies do that, if you've paid the money you get the boat. The responsibility is put on the hirer to know what they're doing, if they chose not to read the information provided in advance by the hire company or listen to the brief that's their responsibility.  

Maybe 'evaluated' is too much but these ladies didn't feel safe and were not, in my opinion, safe. We have just passed them moored up quite a few miles on and they seemed very happy so all's well.

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1 hour ago, dogless said:

We were on the Stratford in April and were chatting with Anglo Welsh crew walking back from Bearley lock having seen hirers through ... so obviously they do on occasions.

 

"The day boat from Saltisford arm Warwick went down the Cape locks on Friday. 
 

Bod"

 

Saltie the Saltisford day boat is ALWAYS watched through the locks.

 

Rog

1st lock only when I saw it.  Group of ladies on board.

 

Bod

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4 hours ago, cuthound said:

At least hirers get some instruction.

 

This is not the case with some first time buyers we have met and had to help through locks. They had not even hired before buying a boat!

 

 

 

This often comes up on Facebook. "can someone help me take my boat out of the marina and show me how to steer"

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