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Canal & River Trust launches first Boater Census


Ray T

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I suggest all boaters ignore this census

On 29/07/2022 at 20:16, MtB said:

 

 

Same here. They have a conclusion I suspect, for which they are seeking supporting 'evidence'.

 

 

 

That was my experience when asked to create surveys for local government.

I suggest all boaters ignore this census in protest of the pathetic management of the waterways.

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5 minutes ago, Midnight said:

I suggest all boaters ignore this census

 

That was my experience when asked to create surveys for local government.

I suggest all boaters ignore this census in protest of the pathetic management of the waterways.

But, it could then be said that boaters don't care, so CRT will do as they see fit.

If CRT have already made decisions concerning us, this census is just a PR excersise.

Heads they win, tails we lose!

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2 hours ago, wandering snail said:

If they applied this, every ccer would have to go home for the night? Permission must therefore be implicit in every licence to boaters without a home mooring.

I suspect CCers with a house could claim that as their dwelling it would be liveaboards without a house who would have problems, just my opinion of course.

2 hours ago, Midnight said:

I suggest all boaters ignore this census

 

That was my experience when asked to create surveys for local government.

I suggest all boaters ignore this census in protest of the pathetic management of the waterways.

In which case it will be even easier for them to claim boaters are happy with them putting all their efforts into cyclists, fishermen (are we still allowed to talk about fishermen) and walkers

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3 hours ago, wandering snail said:

If they applied this, every ccer would have to go home for the night? Permission must therefore be implicit in every licence to boaters without a home mooring.


They don’t apply it though. They don’t really have any way to differentiate between being overnight on a boat for a holiday or for longer.

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  • 2 weeks later...

What data will be looked for in this census. Will it be to collect all the boaters details including persons on board, dogs, cats meerkats etc ?

Why is the current licence information not sufficient for their records ?

Are their ulterior motives ?

How many live aboard persons who may not have a licence is perhaps yet another factor !  

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13 minutes ago, Heartland said:

 

............. who may not have a licence is perhaps yet another factor !  

 

How is a census of licence holders going to give information on non-licence holders?

 

Or did you mean something else (if so...you'll need to tell us what you meant).

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21 minutes ago, Heartland said:

What data will be looked for in this census. Will it be to collect all the boaters details including persons on board, dogs, cats meerkats etc ?

Why is the current licence information not sufficient for their records ?

Are their ulterior motives ?

How many live aboard persons who may not have a licence is perhaps yet another factor !  

 

 

Having a boat licence does not tell anyone how many 'people' that the boat is homing - it could be a 'single' or it could be a family of four (or more)

 

If they are looking to allocate resources for 'number of people' rather than 'number of boats' that will be critical information.

 

What is the hoped for outcome of the census ?

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Yes i have received this and filled it in. It says that they know loads of info on the boats but need to know about the owners. Yet asked me what heating my boat has, all of this info they have from the BSS. They asked how i use the boat. Leisure i says so it then asks me loads of questions that pertain to liveaboard only i.e acess to doctors etc

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2 hours ago, Tonka said:

Yes i have received this and filled it in. It says that they know loads of info on the boats but need to know about the owners. Yet asked me what heating my boat has, all of this info they have from the BSS. They asked how i use the boat. Leisure i says so it then asks me loads of questions that pertain to liveaboard only i.e acess to doctors etc

What sensible questions do you think they could be asking?

Personally I can't really imagine what they need to know, about me.

They have obligations and requirements regarding navigation, cyclists and walkers, and obviously they don't want boaters complaining they are not keeping the canals in good condition. Is there a question about that?

I am always suspicious of "surveys" from my time in local government, when things were changed after the "survey", and not in a good way.

If we are asked about heating, and engines, it would hint that they are collating data to present to UK government, regarding fossil fuels perhaps.

Why do they need to know about access to GP, it may be of interest, but they don't need to know.

If they need to know things, they've waited ten years, so obviously not urgent!

I'm sure a few hours spent reading this forum and responding to the boaters organisation should have given them a good idea of what boaters are like.

Edited by LadyG
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6 hours ago, LadyG said:

What sensible questions do you think they could be asking?

Personally I can't really imagine what they need to know, about me.

They have obligations and requirements regarding navigation, cyclists and walkers, and obviously they don't want boaters complaining they are not keeping the canals in good condition. Is there a question about that?

I am always suspicious of "surveys" from my time in local government, when things were changed after the "survey", and not in a good way.

If we are asked about heating, and engines, it would hint that they are collating data to present to UK government, regarding fossil fuels perhaps.

Why do they need to know about access to GP, it may be of interest, but they don't need to know.

If they need to know things, they've waited ten years, so obviously not urgent!

I'm sure a few hours spent reading this forum and responding to the boaters organisation should have given them a good idea of what boaters are like.

 

 

They is something contentious they have decided upon, and are fishing around for data to support it. 

 

If the 'census' supports their intention then great, they'll cite the 'census' data. If not, then the census results will be quietly buried and forgotten. Obviously. 

 

I can hardly believe not everyone sees through this. Just don't respond to it. Do you really believe the census is to "help paint a picture of who boats on the charity’s waterways"? Is it fcuk.

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've been sent an email regarding this census.  It claims;

 
"What’s different between the boater census survey and the Trust’s annual boater survey?

Our annual survey asks a sample of boaters questions about their views of our waterways, but it doesn’t ask about who’s on your boat or what you use it for. The annual boater survey is only sent to around 10% of licence holders, whereas over the coming months we will be inviting all boaters to complete the boater census survey."

 

However, the survey results document from last year says;

 
”The survey was distributed to random sample of approximately a third of all licence holders". (https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/refresh/media/original/43706-2021-boater-perception-survey.pdf)
 
I've asked for an explanation of the different statements.  It really doesn't induce confidence in their processes or competence.
 
Dave P
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I have done this "census" as a leisure boater.

It is nearly all about liveaboards, not the vast majority who are not.

I did point out that any results they choose to extrapolate are totally invalid to boaters as a whole.

They only apply to a tiny minority of all boaters.

To use any of this census as representative of boaters, would be wanton deception.

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Can’t make me mind up about this. 
I guess I’ll have to wait until I read the census. 
 

But, if it wakes the Trust up to the differing needs of different boaters and they respond positively then I don’t see a problem. 
 

But, if it’s more PR bullshit that gets to tick a box and nothing comes from it then I wouldn’t be surprised. 

I really want to remain optimistic, otherwise what’s the point in  anything. 
 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rebotco said:

I have done this "census" as a leisure boater.

It is nearly all about liveaboards, not the vast majority who are not.

I did point out that any results they choose to extrapolate are totally invalid to boaters as a whole.

They only apply to a tiny minority of all boaters.

To use any of this census as representative of boaters, would be wanton deception.


I’m one of your minority and I’m not sure what you’re getting at, shouldn’t a minority have anything to say?

 

 

again I’ll have to wait to read the census. 
 

 

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10 minutes ago, Goliath said:


I’m one of your minority and I’m not sure what you’re getting at, shouldn’t a minority have anything to say?

 

 

again I’ll have to wait to read the census. 
 

 

 

Your views and experiences are as valid and important as any other boaters.

But they are not representative of the great majority.

The danger is that CRT could try and pretend this survey reflects the opinions of ALL boaters - which it won't.

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4 minutes ago, Rebotco said:

 

Your views and experiences are as valid and important as any other boaters.

But they are not representative of the great majority.

The danger is that CRT could try and pretend this survey reflects the opinions of ALL boaters - which it won't.

Is the census gathering opinion or fact, or both?

(I haven’t read it)

 

If, for example, the census reveals that there is a much stronger need for reinstating and giving additional moorings for those with disabilities, then that’s a positive, whether the majority of us need them or not. 

 

🤷‍♀️
 

 

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51 minutes ago, Goliath said:


I’m one of your minority and I’m not sure what you’re getting at, shouldn’t a minority have anything to say?

 

 

again I’ll have to wait to read the census. 
 

 

 

Conclusions :

 

Only 5% of boaters surveyed said that they needed more pump-out facilities.

Only 4% of boaters surveyed said better moorings were needed for winter liveaboards.

etc

etc etc.

 

Therefore we feel that we are alreasy achieving what the majority require and need take no further action.

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Conclusions :

 

Only 5% of boaters surveyed said that they needed more pump-out facilities.

Only 4% of boaters surveyed said better moorings were needed for winter liveaboards.

etc

etc etc.

 

Therefore we feel that we are alreasy achieving what the majority require and need take no further action.

 

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Conclusions :

 

Only 5% of boaters surveyed said that they needed more pump-out facilities.

Only 4% of boaters surveyed said better moorings were needed for winter liveaboards.

etc

etc etc.

 

Therefore we feel that we are alreasy achieving what the majority require and need take no further action.


Maybe that will be the result. 
And it’ll prove a waste of time and money. 

We can only wait and see. 
 

From what I can see, the census has been largely pushed by minority groups. 
I expect these groups will have strong views regards the results 👍

 

If results can be used for instance to influence local authorities to make it easier to register with doctors or collect prescriptions, making benefit claims and so on, then I’m for it. 
 

 

 

 

Personally I ‘need’ more pub moorings to be 28days mooring, with a discount on beer. 👍👍

 


 

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Apart from more water in the canal and more 48hr moorings to keep people like myself moving, obviously, 😃

 

What does the average leisure boater find that they need, require or want in addition to what’s provided by CRT, local authorities or whoever?

Genuine question. 

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As a first year newbie we received this survey and completed it. However, it would have provided no information and I wondered what the point was as it was irrelevant or not applicable. In this politically correct world we live in, boxes have to be ticked and I would imagine that the CRT need to know things about accessibility, health, access to facilities. To be inclusive to use the modern cliche. So I fear they will find something to show proactiveness (and it may well be that something needs to be done) but it will have to be resourced out of existing money, there being no new money available. Which of course means that the state of our canals deteriorate, more leaks, greater decay, heavier dependency on volunteers etc.

Like many surveys I completed for the FCA, the questions are too simple, naive or require more information which no-one at CRT has the time or inclination to delve into. As with the FCA, it was more often than not an opportunity to justify what was already preordained.

 

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29 minutes ago, Goliath said:

What does the average leisure boater find that they need, require or want

 

All I wanted was :

 

1) Deep enough water to cruise (dredging)

2) Infrastructure that works and can be operated by a person of average abilities (maintenance)

3) Toilet emptying facilities and water taps a days cruise apart.

4) Ability to get alongside and moor safely.

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6 minutes ago, SLC said:

As a first year newbie we received this survey and completed it. However, it would have provided no information and I wondered what the point was as it was irrelevant or not applicable. In this politically correct world we live in, boxes have to be ticked and I would imagine that the CRT need to know things about accessibility, health, access to facilities. To be inclusive to use the modern cliche. So I fear they will find something to show proactiveness (and it may well be that something needs to be done) but it will have to be resourced out of existing money, there being no new money available. Which of course means that the state of our canals deteriorate, more leaks, greater decay, heavier dependency on volunteers etc.

Like many surveys I completed for the FCA, the questions are too simple, naive or require more information which no-one at CRT has the time or inclination to delve into. As with the FCA, it was more often than not an opportunity to justify what was already preordained.

 


doesnt necessarily mean diverting funds

it might be a simple matter of sharing information such as health care needs with authorities, 🤷‍♀️
 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Lady C said:

How about - Rubbish bins & recycling.  Grass mown on visitor moorings, lock landings, locksides and near bridges.

Yea, agree

after all that’s what we’d hope our license contributes to. 

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3 hours ago, Rebotco said:

I have done this "census" as a leisure boater.

It is nearly all about liveaboards, not the vast majority who are not.

I did point out that any results they choose to extrapolate are totally invalid to boaters as a whole.

They only apply to a tiny minority of all boaters.

To use any of this census as representative of boaters, would be wanton deception.

To be fair the majority of liveaboards want similar things to leisure boaters, water, rubbish disposal, water to float in, I'm not sure how that is invalid to none liveaboards 

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