Dutch Barge Downsides

[Jimbo435]

Came across this boat, the Emaa Louise Too on a Youtube video.

The style is very intriguing to me.  I like the rear cabin behind the wheelhouse.

What would be the downsides of moving this boat around the network?

[Tracy D'arth]

Having to partially dismantle it to get under most bridges?  Wheel steering, a bit less positive on canals?

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, Jimbo435 said:

What would be the downsides of moving this boat around the network?

 

 

Having to collapse the wheelhouse on canals with low bridges. 

 

Hardly any outside space to sit on/in on a warm summer's evening.

 

Constantly being approached and talked to by annoying canal towpath walkers commenting on what an unusual boat

 

[Paul C]

26 minutes ago, Jimbo435 said:

 

What would be the downsides of moving this boat around the network?

 

 

Having to look at it more than once.

[Bargebuilder]

I have owned similar and piloted a bigger one owned by someone else.

 

Wheel steering is fine, it really isn't a problem once you're used to it, in fact some people new to steering boats find it easier. It isn't so immediate as tiller of course, but you quickly learn to think ahead.

 

Some wheel houses dismantle more easily and quickly than others; try it. If you are cruising for a few days in a row, just lower it and leave it down for the period. We were coastal and on the French canals where our wheelhouse wasn't an issue.

 

Your main issue is simply the size! Big boats on canals aren't popular with others and they'll let you know! You'll struggle to go slowly enough when passing moored boats to stop them from moving. You'll get stuck between lock gates that don't open fully and even with the wheelhouse down, under some extra low bridges. You'll struggle on canals narrowed by poorly maintained vegetation and when you meet oncoming boats, narrow or even worse, other wide beams.

 

Because cruising will be more stressful than with a narrowboat, you may find yourself doing less of it and more time tied to the bank, which you might find disappointing.

 

If you keep her in a wide river or estuary and do a bit of coastal cruising you will enjoy her, on something like her, much more.

 

I applaud you on your excellent taste in boats though.

[Jimbo435]

She was listed as a narrowboat.  I would assume 6'10".  62 feet long.

 

Here's the advert from 2019:

https://www.aqueductmarina.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Specification-Template-2019-2-24.pdf

[blackrose]

As a narrowboat I think the only downside is the wheelhouse. I would check the draught if you can. If it is 29" that isn't too bad and you shouldn't be scraping the bottom too much. I can't see if it's keel or raw water cooled. I'd want keel cooling on the canals. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by blackrose

[ditchcrawler]

A friend of mine had one built by Roger Fuller and he managed to cruise most places without dropping the wheel house, obviously some places he had to.

[enigmatic]

Yep, that's one of the nicer looking "Dutch barge" style narrowboats. Another disadvantage of some of the narrow "Dutch Barges" is that they look a bit odd, because the style of boat they're based on is much bigger. This one won't get on a lot of English canals

 

I did see a "Dutch barge" narrowboat  for sale the vendor reckoned would actually pass under most bridges without dismantling the wheelhouse, but since it's wood and glass I'm not sure I'd want to test that theory, especially not on a windy day

 

Wheelhouses make it slightly harder to step off quickly with a rope when mooring up (both because of the door and superstructure, and because it's not right at the stern. Still should be manageable. Weed hatch might be more difficult to access too. 

 

And for living aboard, especially in winter, an uninsulated canvas-roofed wheelhouse between living quarters and the room at the back (probably a bedroom) is going to be cold. Plus you'd need a separate heating system in the bedroom.

Edited July 25, 2022 by enigmatic

[cuthound]

13 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

A friend of mine had one built by Roger Fuller and he managed to cruise most places without dropping the wheel house, obviously some places he had to.

 

Wincham Wharf used to (maybe still do?) make narrow beam Dutch Barges with a floodable/pump out able ballast tank to enable the air draft to be lowered (at the expense of underwater draught obviously) to enable their boats to get under most low bridges without dismantling the wheelhouse.

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, cuthound said:

 

Wincham Wharf used to (maybe still do?) make narrow beam Dutch Barges with a floodable/pump out able ballast tank to enable the air draft to be lowered (at the expense of underwater draught obviously) to enable their boats to get under most low bridges without dismantling the wheelhouse.

Don't think they still do, Tomaz is busy fixing boats.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Tracy D'arth

[Silent Flight]

Viewed a boat similar to this while ago. Except the wheelhouse was at the stern and there was no cabin behind. The rest of the boat was really well built with lots of storage. The wheelhouse had been rebuilt and was made from wood, steel and Perspex making it a bit lighter for dismantle. Would take about 15 minutes to fold away completely. I get that it’s not for everyone but I liked how it felt more like a boat than a barge. For the space it felt cosy and sociable, and more ideal for having a dog in my opinion than a trad, semi trad or cruiser. I think personally I would be willing to fold it down as and when. If I find the right boat for the right price I would seriously consider a Dutch style narrow boat.

 

I take on board other comments however I don’t understand a few points. Being new to barges and narrow boats it would be helpful to clear it up.

 

Saying the size can be a issue? It’s same width length as a lot of narrow boats except the wheelhouse. How does that make a noticeable difference?

 

Theres not much room to chill in the summer, likely at this point in the year it would be packed away giving a nice outdoor area?

 

Also does anyone know if once packed down if there was to be a summer storm would the canvas from the roof for over the area without the wheelhouse structure. Obvs making the space unusable for the night but keeping it dry until the sun returns.

 

Thanks in advance. Sam 

 

 

[booke23]

2 hours ago, Owls Den said:

Saying the size can be a issue? It’s same width length as a lot of narrow boats except the wheelhouse. How does that make a noticeable difference?

 

I suppose the main downside of a Dutch barge compared to the same sized wide beam 'narrowboat' is the internal space is smaller.....the curvy shape and big gunwale results in less useable space inside the boat. They can also be quite deep drafted which isn't ideal in canals, and their shape can make getting under some bridges tricky. They can also have big engines which are more thirsty than typical wide beam narrowboats. But they do look nice!

[RichM]

 

2 hours ago, Owls Den said:

Viewed a boat similar to this while ago. Except the wheelhouse was at the stern and there was no cabin behind. The rest of the boat was really well built with lots of storage. The wheelhouse had been rebuilt and was made from wood, steel and Perspex making it a bit lighter for dismantle. Would take about 15 minutes to fold away completely. I get that it’s not for everyone but I liked how it felt more like a boat than a barge. For the space it felt cosy and sociable, and more ideal for having a dog in my opinion than a trad, semi trad or cruiser. I think personally I would be willing to fold it down as and when. If I find the right boat for the right price I would seriously consider a Dutch style narrow boat.

 

I take on board other comments however I don’t understand a few points. Being new to barges and narrow boats it would be helpful to clear it up.

 

Saying the size can be a issue? It’s same width length as a lot of narrow boats except the wheelhouse. How does that make a noticeable difference?

 

Theres not much room to chill in the summer, likely at this point in the year it would be packed away giving a nice outdoor area?

 

Also does anyone know if once packed down if there was to be a summer storm would the canvas from the roof for over the area without the wheelhouse structure. Obvs making the space unusable for the night but keeping it dry until the sun returns.

 

Thanks in advance. Sam 

 

 

 

Old topic, but nevermind.
 

It would appear that this one was designed for use on UK waterways, by and large anyway. The published draught is similar to a typical narrowboat and although the beam doesn't appear to be published, it does look to be around 6'10 which is standard for a narrowbeam. Obviously something to check if you do consider something similar because this could be an issue if it's any wider, depending on where you choose to cruise. 

 

It would seem logical that the gunwales would compromise cabin space, but other photos online would suggest otherwise. Photos can be deceptive however.
https://www.facebook.com/venetianmarineltd/posts/new-boat-for-sale-emma-louise-too-2011-62ft-dutch-style-narrowboat-price-74950-r/1761412840546520/

 

It's difficult to say about the wheelhouse - it does look like a semi-permanent structure, at least on this boat anyway. I have seen ones that fold down on hinges and have a canvas roof. Ideal for quick disassembly/reassembly. I'd imagine it could be quite a faff otherwise. There is also a lot of woodwork to get damaged in the wheelhouse. If it were my boat, I think I'd be afraid to risk it getting wet to be honest. There are many places this boat won't go without taking down the wheelhouse. - But again it does depend on which canals you plan to travel on. As such it may or may not be an issue. 

 

You also lose a usable well deck/cratch but gain a very nice secluded aft cabin. Horses for courses really. This example also has a large water tank. (800 litres)

 

As for the more traditional widebeam Dutch barges - different story altogether as you probably guessed but it does seem that Dutch barge style boats tend to command higher prices in comparison to to a more typical narrowboat of a similar size/age/condition.

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

10 hours ago, RichM said:

It's difficult to say about the wheelhouse - it does look like a semi-permanent structure, at least on this boat anyway. I have seen ones that fold down on hinges and have a canvas roof. Ideal for quick disassembly/reassembly. I'd imagine it could be quite a faff otherwise. There is also a lot of woodwork to get damaged in the wheelhouse. If it were my boat, I think I'd be afraid to risk it getting wet to be honest. There are many places this boat won't go without taking down the wheelhouse. - But again it does depend on which canals you plan to travel on. As such it may or may not be an issue. 

If you don't dismantle the wheelhouse on some canals, then a low/curved bridge, or tunnel will dismantle it for you even faster than you can do it yourself. Easily repairable is definitely a useful feature. Light weight and not too firmly affixed to the steel structure is also good, as it limits the damage to the rest of the boat. Several boats round here with wheelhouses and pram hoods where that has happened.

On downsides in general, if you can see the downside, it is upside down, and that is a definite downside in a boat. 😀

[Silent Flight]

On 13/01/2023 at 23:32, booke23 said:

 

I suppose the main downside of a Dutch barge compared to the same sized wide beam 'narrowboat' is the internal space is smaller.....the curvy shape and big gunwale results in less useable space inside the boat. They can also be quite deep drafted which isn't ideal in canals, and their shape can make getting under some bridges tricky. They can also have big engines which are more thirsty than typical wide beam narrowboats. But they do look nice!

Appreciate the reply. The boat in question isn’t a wide beam, but Dutch barge narrowboat. I did rule out wide beams for size as I plan to CC at first and explore new areas and they re restricted. However hadn’t considered there curvy shape is another unpractical reason. Your right they do look nice tho!

[ditchcrawler]

14 minutes ago, Owls Den said:

Appreciate the reply. The boat in question isn’t a wide beam, but Dutch barge narrowboat. I did rule out wide beams for size as I plan to CC at first and explore new areas and they re restricted. However hadn’t considered there curvy shape is another unpractical reason. Your right they do look nice tho!

I would suggest it has more usable space inside than a standard narrowboat as the gunwales tend to be higher and they don't have the curved hulls of real Dutch barges down by the floor, but straight sided like Narrowboats. Depending on the design you may need to drop the wheelhouse to cruise, a friend of mine found by narrowing it slightly he could navigate most bridges with it up.

[Silent Flight]

On 14/01/2023 at 00:16, RichM said:

 

 

Old topic, but nevermind.
 

It would appear that this one was designed for use on UK waterways, by and large anyway. The published draught is similar to a typical narrowboat and although the beam doesn't appear to be published, it does look to be around 6'10 which is standard for a narrowbeam. Obviously something to check if you do consider something similar because this could be an issue if it's any wider, depending on where you choose to cruise. 

 

It would seem logical that the gunwales would compromise cabin space, but other photos online would suggest otherwise. Photos can be deceptive however.
https://www.facebook.com/venetianmarineltd/posts/new-boat-for-sale-emma-louise-too-2011-62ft-dutch-style-narrowboat-price-74950-r/1761412840546520/

 

It's difficult to say about the wheelhouse - it does look like a semi-permanent structure, at least on this boat anyway. I have seen ones that fold down on hinges and have a canvas roof. Ideal for quick disassembly/reassembly. I'd imagine it could be quite a faff otherwise. There is also a lot of woodwork to get damaged in the wheelhouse. If it were my boat, I think I'd be afraid to risk it getting wet to be honest. There are many places this boat won't go without taking down the wheelhouse. - But again it does depend on which canals you plan to travel on. As such it may or may not be an issue. 

 

You also lose a usable well deck/cratch but gain a very nice secluded aft cabin. Horses for courses really. This example also has a large water tank. (800 litres)

 

As for the more traditional widebeam Dutch barges - different story altogether as you probably guessed but it does seem that Dutch barge style boats tend to command higher prices in comparison to to a more typical narrowboat of a similar size/age/condition.

 

 

Thankyou some very valid points there. I will be viewing another soon that is similar and will check the dimensions of the draught and beam much closer. Don’t want to be restricted to cruise anywhere tbh so this is important.

 

I agree with the wheelhouse it needs to ideally be on hinges and lightweight with a canvas roof otherwise it would be a pain. And wouldn’t want it getting wet once down either. My thinking is on this example boat and others I’ve looked at is the canvas cover is bigger than the footprint of the of the wheelhouse as it angles outwards so effectively could use that to cover if bad weather comes in quickly. Unsure if this would work ?
 

Also if the wheelhouse is hinged I’m hoping once half folded down it will then fit through most tight areas / tunnels… Again unsure if this would work?

 

Like you say horses for courses but I really like the style, and the space the wheelhouse provides would be perfect for exploring for me and my dog. So I do appreciate opinions as seriously considering the Dutch barge narrowboat style! That’s why I revived a old thread, is that okay on this forum or would it of been better to post a new topic with similar example boat? Genuine question not being sarcy or anything 😁

 

 

On 14/01/2023 at 10:53, Jen-in-Wellies said:

If you don't dismantle the wheelhouse on some canals, then a low/curved bridge, or tunnel will dismantle it for you even faster than you can do it yourself. Easily repairable is definitely a useful feature. Light weight and not too firmly affixed to the steel structure is also good, as it limits the damage to the rest of the boat. Several boats round here with wheelhouses and pram hoods where that has happened.

On downsides in general, if you can see the downside, it is upside down, and that is a definite downside in a boat. 😀

Thankyou for that, hopefully it won’t happen if plan ahead and take care. Would not be a good day if a bridge ‘dismantles’ the wheelhouse! What do you mean by it is upside down? 

[Silent Flight]

11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I would suggest it has more usable space inside than a standard narrowboat as the gunwales tend to be higher and they don't have the curved hulls of real Dutch barges down by the floor, but straight sided like Narrowboats. Depending on the design you may need to drop the wheelhouse to cruise, a friend of mine found by narrowing it slightly he could navigate most bridges with it up.

Totally get that as the boats I’ve viewed did seem to have tons of storage compared to some of the more traditional narrowboats. Hadn’t considered due to higher gunwales thank you for explaining that!

 

V intriguing when you mention your friend narrowing it. Presume he narrowed the wheelhouse? Would be interested in some more info if possible as I can’t actually picture how that would work. But can see the desire to keep the wheelhouse up!

[magnetman]

Not sure if it has been mentioned but an important factor with boats with dismantleable wheelhouse is whether the boat is waterproof with the wheelhouse down. Is the floor in the wheelhouse drained overboard? Ideally it should be similar to a cruiser stern deck with drainage channels. it probably isn't but some are. 

 

The English barge (12ft beam) I had was not watertight so when it rained water would get into the engine area if wheelhouse was down. 

 

The point is that you WILL need to move boat in rain with wheelhouse off at some stage and this type of boat is lovely to handle with everything down. It is remarkable how much of an obstruction the structure is to visibility.

 

If I was having a narrow boat again it would be a traditional style. 

 

Side doors are not nice when exiting boat in an empty lock. You want a little stern deck and doors facing backwards. Much more pleasant when locking. 

 

Interesting type of boat but having helmed one of these and other types of narrow boat I personally would not consider it if the intention is to do a lot of boating. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by magnetman

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, Owls Den said:

 

V intriguing when you mention your friend narrowing it. Presume he narrowed the wheelhouse? Would be interested in some more info if possible as I can’t actually picture how that would work. But can see the desire to keep the wheelhouse up!

Sorry not possible, being even older than me he has headed for land to live and we have since lost touch, that happens with boating friends, once you stop boating the common interest soon goes. His boat was built by Roger Fuller in Stone, no idea where it is now. If I remember correctly he narrowed it from cabin roof height.  I think it was a Branson design 

[Silent Flight]

4 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Sorry not possible, being even older than me he has headed for land to live and we have since lost touch, that happens with boating friends, once you stop boating the common interest soon goes. His boat was built by Roger Fuller in Stone, no idea where it is now. If I remember correctly he narrowed it from cabin roof height.  I think it was a Branson design 

Ahh I see no worries thankyou for the info, worth searching to see. I get the principle of the idea but thought I’d ask.  

[Silent Flight]

7 hours ago, magnetman said:

Not sure if it has been mentioned but an important factor with boats with dismantleable wheelhouse is whether the boat is waterproof with the wheelhouse down. Is the floor in the wheelhouse drained overboard? Ideally it should be similar to a cruiser stern deck with drainage channels. it probably isn't but some are. 

 

The English barge (12ft beam) I had was not watertight so when it rained water would get into the engine area if wheelhouse was down. 

 

The point is that you WILL need to move boat in rain with wheelhouse off at some stage and this type of boat is lovely to handle with everything down. It is remarkable how much of an obstruction the structure is to visibility.

 

If I was having a narrow boat again it would be a traditional style. 

 

Side doors are not nice when exiting boat in an empty lock. You want a little stern deck and doors facing backwards. Much more pleasant when locking. 

 

Interesting type of boat but having helmed one of these and other types of narrow boat I personally would not consider it if the intention is to do a lot of boating. 

 

 

 

 

Appreciate your comments. I will definitely consider the waterproof and question that, very valid I would guess that without self draining your asking for trouble considering where the water could end up instead! 

[Silent Flight]

If anyone is interested to know, I’m excited to say put a deposit on this Dutch style narrowboat!
 

Viewed it once already and taking her out on the cut this Friday. If still happy will complete the sale next week. 
 

Interested to hear peoples opinions, whether positive or negative!

 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/soar-valley-57-db-for-sale/718322

[Mad Harold]

5 minutes ago, Owls Den said:

If anyone is interested to know, I’m excited to say put a deposit on this Dutch style narrowboat!
 

Viewed it once already and taking her out on the cut this Friday. If still happy will complete the sale next week. 
 

Interested to hear peoples opinions, whether positive or negative!

 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/soar-valley-57-db-for-sale/718322

I iike it!

Looks lovely inside and I am sure will be very comfortable.

Once crewed on a similar looking but widebeam dutch barge and was impressed with the space available.(Mind after my last boat a Norman 20, I am quite easily impressed )

The conservatory aft is a nice touch for growing your tomatoes.

The price doesn't seem out of the way at initial reading, but of course a survey will either confirm or deny.

Best of luck.😃