CRT training vlockies today, wrongly

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, rusty69 said:

 

 

I know I shouldn't joke about such a serious subject, but those old dolphins were clearly not fit for porpoise.

 

Ok, i'm going, i'm going.

 

You get worser and worser.

Just now, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Which all rather sounds like an amount of current that they should never have been out boating in a narrow boat in the first place, doesn't it?

 

The Trent always has enough current to hold a NB.

They'd missed the lock cut and were turning to go back to it but once sideways they had little hope of turning against the flow.

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Which all rather sounds like an amount of current that they should never have been out boating in a narrow boat in the first place, doesn't it?

Maybe -- or maybe it was just normal flow on the Trent, not near the yellow board threshold...

 

Rivers do have flow which will carry an uncovered boat downstream, the only way to avoid this is to not go on them at all, which sometimes is impossible...

[Wanderer Vagabond]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You get worser and worser.

 

The Trent always has enough current to hold a NB.

They'd missed the lock cut and were turning to go back to it but once sideways they had little hope of turning against the flow.

Not this summer it hasn't, the 'fresh' between Cromwell and Torksey was barely noticeable, and it didn't feel as though there was a current above Cromwell at all.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Not this summer it hasn't, the 'fresh' between Cromwell and Torksey was barely noticeable, and it didn't feel as though there was a current above Cromwell at all.

 

Fair enough - this Summer has not been Normal.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

17 minutes ago, IanD said:

I would agree with this. The problem remains is that even well-maintained engines have been known to stop or fail unexpectedly, most often when being worked hard for long periods like going upriver -- not on red boards or a flood, just normal currents or after rain.

 

Yes the chance of this happening is small, and in most cases the boat will then be swept downstream and most probably end up on the bank, but there's an even smaller chance of a bad outcome like hitting a bridge/boat/weir and sinking.

 

An anchor is basically an insurance policy -- and not such an effective one, especially the standard 14kg Danforth -- against this *tiny* chance of disaster. Most boaters will never have to deploy an anchor in an emergency in their entire boating lifetime -- but a few will...

 

Just like any insurance policy, it's personal choice whether to take one out or assume/hope that it'll never happen to you -- and if you do take one out, whether to go for the cheapest possible basic cover (Danforth) or a more expensive policy with much better benefits (Fortress).

 

None of these choices is "right" or "wrong"... 😉

Have to say, I'm not arguing against carrying anchors, I carry one myself, but I am also fully aware of their limitations and don't necessarily expect it to rescue me from disaster, it just might make the disaster slower to unfold. Looking up the Fortress anchors, even the higher range have a holding power in soft mud (which is what we are talking about here) of 3.6 tons/8,100 lbs (31 Kg anchor and way too big for my narrow boat). My boat weighs somewhere about 18 tons, is it really going to hold it against a current?

[Mike Todd]

30 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Fair enough - this Summer has not been Normal.

Some say it is the New Normal

[Arthur Marshall]

58 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Which all rather sounds like an amount of current that they should never have been out boating in a narrow boat in the first place, doesn't it?

The only time I've been scared on the boat was years back when they let us off the Soar onto the Trent during some fairly major floods. They opened up in the morning and shut it again in the afternoon and with the engine on full throttle I was hardly moving. I did have the anchor attached but don't think it would have done much good if the engine had failed. I'd never heard a doppler effect from narrowboat engines before.

Last time l did it, it was like a millpond.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

55 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The only time I've been scared on the boat was years back when they let us off the Soar onto the Trent during some fairly major floods. They opened up in the morning and shut it again in the afternoon and with the engine on full throttle I was hardly moving. I did have the anchor attached but don't think it would have done much good if the engine had failed. I'd never heard a doppler effect from narrowboat engines before.

Last time l did it, it was like a millpond.

Kind of reminds me of a sailing adage which goes something like,'Is it better to be standing on the beach looking out to sea and wishing you were out sailing, or out sailing looking at the beach wishing you could get back ashore' . These days I know my limitations and have no timetable, just destinations.

[Rob-M]

The one boat I know if that ended up on Gloucester weir was because they picked up a carpet on the blades as they came round the last bend before the lock.  Generally that bend is taken slowly as you may need to stop against the wall.  I don't know if they deployed an anchor or just came to a rest on the weir.

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Not this summer it hasn't, the 'fresh' between Cromwell and Torksey was barely noticeable, and it didn't feel as though there was a current above Cromwell at all.

It's been a strange year, friends went on the Trent and wondered what all the fuss was about, they then managed to run around! Fortunately they got free, I have seen pictures of literally no current and islands that you normally cruise over

[IanD]

3 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Have to say, I'm not arguing against carrying anchors, I carry one myself, but I am also fully aware of their limitations and don't necessarily expect it to rescue me from disaster, it just might make the disaster slower to unfold. Looking up the Fortress anchors, even the higher range have a holding power in soft mud (which is what we are talking about here) of 3.6 tons/8,100 lbs (31 Kg anchor and way too big for my narrow boat). My boat weighs somewhere about 18 tons, is it really going to hold it against a current?

Yes because your boat doesn’t hang vertically suspended from the anchor... 😉

 

Once the boat has been brought to a stop, the force on the anchor is the same as the propeller thrust needed to keep the boat stationary in the current. If we assume 15kW/20hp and 100hp per ton bollard thrust, that's 1/5 of a ton which is 200kg pull -- no problem for most anchors.

 

So the big strain is bringing the boat to a stop, and the force to do this depends how stretchy the anchor rope is -- which is why you need a long one, preferably nylon which is more elastic. The biggest problem will be stopping a boat going downstream, let's assume a 3kt current which is 1.5m/s. If you plug the numbers in, to stop the boat in 1m (from rope with no slack to stretched rope with boat stopped) the pull on the anchor is 3400kg -- with 2m rope stretch 1700kg and so on.

 

If the rope doesn't have this much stretch then the anchor will drag through the mud until the boat slows down enough. Always assuming it doesn't hit a rock, in which case the rope might snap or pull the T-stud off the boat, depending on which is stronger...

Edited August 25, 2022 by IanD

[noddyboater]

13 hours ago, IanD said:

 

If the rope doesn't have this much stretch then the anchor will drag through the mud until the boat slows down enough. Always assuming it doesn't hit a rock, in which case the rope might snap or pull the T-stud off the boat, depending on which is stronger...

I broke the T- stud off a Tyler/Wilson boat once descending the Tinsley locks when it nudged a walkway on the lower gate.

It was welded to the deck, rather than pierced through and welded top and bottom.

I don't think a snatched anchor would have done it though,  as the pull would be at the base of the stud  😉

[Naughty Cal]

17 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Not this summer it hasn't, the 'fresh' between Cromwell and Torksey was barely noticeable, and it didn't feel as though there was a current above Cromwell at all.

That's because there won't have been any fresh due to the lack of rain.

 

Fresh being the local phrase for anything over and above the predicted tidal range due to rainfall.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Naughty Cal

[LadyG]

3 hours ago, noddyboater said:

I broke the T- stud off a Tyler/Wilson boat once descending the Tinsley locks when it nudged a walkway on the lower gate.

It was welded to the deck, rather than pierced through and welded top and bottom.

I don't think a snatched anchor would have done it though,  as the pull would be at the base of the stud  😉

Omg I've got a Tyler Wilson, do I need to re think anchoring post, I  wonder if a big oak bearers in the well deck would act as back up?

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Omg I've got a Tyler Wilson, do I need to re think anchoring post, I  wonder if a big oak bearers in the well deck would act as back up?

 

I think that all welded T-Studs on NBs would be suspect for anchoring use. I'd suggest that an A4 steel 12mm x 20mm Eye-Bolt fitted with a large (say) 6"-9" diameter & 6mm thick backing plate would be a far better, stronger option.

 

LIFTING EYE BOLTS A4 MARINE GRADE STAINLESS STEEL METRIC THREAD WITH FULL NUTS | eBay

 

 

[Lady M]

I seem to recall guidance about have a separate anchor point.

[Midnight]

This thread has drifted so far off topic it needs an anchor.

[Paul C]

Or a good sinking

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Midnight said:

This thread has drifted so far off topic it needs an anchor.

Perhaps all the vlockies are not behaving like anchors any more.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Perhaps all the vlockies are not behaving like anchors any more.

I think they have all buggered off, not seen one this trip

[Francis Herne]

There were some on Diglis canal locks this week. They've been busy, at one point there were five boats waiting in the river to go up (just bad timing, locks being worked as quickly as huge locks with smallish paddles can be).

[MtB]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think they have all buggered off, not seen one this trip

 

 

I've bin for a pint in The Rowbarge at Woolhampton this afternoon. The place was swarming with vollies enjoying themselves working the swing bridge. They must all be here.

 

 

[gatekrash]

2 working Farmers Bridge today, although one was technically a CRT employee but doing some locking. Couldn't fault either of them, we flew up the flight in an hour and a quarter.

 

Unlike the very odd guy on lapworth a couple of weeks back who was having a very loud and clearly very important conversation on his mobile phone with his mate about broken toilets in his mess hut and was far too busy to bother doing anything productive. I started to worry when he finished his call and asked me what I thought was different about him whilst gesticulating at his chest (he wasn't wearing a life jacket). He then muttered something about leaking (presumably a lock and not his desire to use his broken loo) and we didn't see him again.

[ditchcrawler]

On 26/08/2022 at 17:11, ditchcrawler said:

I think they have all buggered off, not seen one this trip

Saw one today half way up Hurleston locks, helpful chap, checked I was ready before drawing a paddle and went and set the top lock ready for me.

Edit to add

Being Saturday I thought there may be one or two at Bunbury staircase

Edited August 27, 2022 by ditchcrawler
I did it again

[Allan(nb Albert)]

11 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Being Saturday I thought there may be one or two at Bunbury staircase

Perhaps special training is needed to orchestrate the Bunbury shuffle...