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8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you have gone for the Guardian, then I'm not impressed.

 

The Fortress is an excellent anchor if the pull is in a straight line, but every test I've seen done on them reports that any 'sideways pull' and the anachor bends and twists.

 

The Guardian is the 'poor mans' Fortress anchor and being built of thinner section extrusions it is even more prone to bending.

 

Benefiting from years of Fortress Anchor R&D, the Guardian model offers excellent quality, performance and economy. Guardian Anchors are made from the same high tensile, corrosion resistant aluminum magnesium alloy and manufacturing precision as Fortress.

The use of slightly smaller extrusion profiles and the elimination of some of Fortress’ extra features, such as anodizing, adjustable fluke angles, and several machining steps resulted in a very affordable alternative to those heavy, rust-prone steel anchors.

While the Fortress Anchor can be adjusted from 32 degrees to 45 degrees for extra holding power, the Guardian Anchor is limited to one single 32-degree angle.

 

Source :  The manufacturer Guardian Anchors - Fortress Anchors

 

You appear to have bought the 'best of everything' for your boat, but for the item that could save your life you have gone for the 'economy' version with lower perfomance in both strength and holding power.

I have a huge amount of respect for your opinions, but as a long term owner and extensive user of the Fortress anchor, in extreme coastal conditions, very high winds, seas, and currents, plus having multiple boats tied to us with all that extra weight and windage, I can tell you with complete confidence that this anchor bites and holds exceptionally well and mine at least never bent or deformed in any way.

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21 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I have a huge amount of respect for your opinions, but as a long term owner and extensive user of the Fortress anchor, in extreme coastal conditions, very high winds, seas, and currents, plus having multiple boats tied to us with all that extra weight and windage, I can tell you with complete confidence that this anchor bites and holds exceptionally well and mine at least never bent or deformed in any way.

 

It is not 'my opinion' but the comment from several magazines who have tested them.

 

The performance is legendary but after research I decided to go for a 30kg Manson as a 'better all rounder'

 

 

 

 

 

mantus-exploded-iconographics-small.jpg

 

 

One example of a test report :

 

In a test of several anchor models (by Yachting Monthly) the Fortress out performed all of them, until the lateral pull test (ala tide turning) when the flukes bent and twisted with the holding dropping to zero - meaning that the testing could not continue and only one out the three tests could be undertaken.

 

 

Screenshot (1475).png

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It is not my opinion' but the comment from several magazines who have tested them.

 

The performance is legendary but after research I decided to go for a 30kg Manson.

 

 

In a test of several anchor models the Fortress out performed all of them, until the lateral pull test (ala tide turning) when the flukes bent and twisted meaning that the testing could not continue and only one out the three tests could be undertaken.

 

 

mantus-exploded-iconographics-small.jpg

Screenshot (1475).png

We only anchor when we intend to spend the night, we always anchor in tidal estuaries, the tide always turns every night, usually whilst we sleep, the current changes through 180⁰, the anchor breaks out as the boat passes over the top and re-sets in the opposite direction, every time with no problems and creates no anxiety for us.

 

The Fortress is light in weight, meaning you can get an oversize model with no fear of breaking your back whilst deploying or retrieving. As an emergency high hold anchor for a NB I would be totally confident in it. Most anchors that I see on NB's I really doubt would bite and hold in an emergency, but I have had 100% success with my Fortress in some extreme conditions.

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2 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

We only anchor when we intend to spend the night, we always anchor in tidal estuaries, the tide always turns every night, usually whilst we sleep, the current changes through 180⁰, the anchor breaks out as the boat passes over the top and re-sets in the opposite direction, every time with no problems and creates no anxiety for us.

 

This is the 'weakness' of the Fortress, it digs in and sets so deeply that as the tide turns it cannot break-out and the full load is applied laterally and something has to give.

Have you actually video'd your anchor for 12 hours (showing what happens) - there are some on You Tube.

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

Most anchors that I see on NB's I really doubt would bite and hold in an emergency, but I have had 100% success with my Fortress in some extreme conditions.

 

Completely agree and the most popular (because it is cheap and folds flat) the "Danforth" is one of the worst performing designs, particularly when it comes to 'setting first time' because of engine failure etc, (which is when you are likely to be using it on a NB).

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1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

We only anchor when we intend to spend the night, we always anchor in tidal estuaries, the tide always turns every night, usually whilst we sleep, the current changes through 180⁰, the anchor breaks out as the boat passes over the top and re-sets in the opposite direction, every time with no problems and creates no anxiety for us.

 

The Fortress is light in weight, meaning you can get an oversize model with no fear of breaking your back whilst deploying or retrieving. As an emergency high hold anchor for a NB I would be totally confident in it. Most anchors that I see on NB's I really doubt would bite and hold in an emergency, but I have had 100% success with my Fortress in some extreme conditions.

I've got a Mantus, and while it can be split in two, it just fits in the locker opening when assembled, so that's the way it is stored.

Edited by LadyG
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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

This is the 'weakness' of the Fortress, it digs in and sets so deeply that as the tide turns it cannot break-out and the full load is applied laterally and something has to give.

Have you actually video'd your anchor for 12 hours (showing what happens) - there are some on You Tube.

 

 

 

 

Completely agree and the most popular (because it is cheap and folds flat) the "Danforth" is one of the worst performing designs, particularly when it comes to 'setting first time' because of engine failure etc, (which is when you are likely to be using it on a NB).

Come on Alan, we're talking here about anchors to deploy in an emergency on a narrowboat on a river, when what really matters is how easy it is to deploy, how effective it is, and whether it saves your boat.

 

What happens with reversing tides over 12 hours is totally irrelevant, this isn't a yacht mooring offshore.

 

Neither is the fact that the Fortress might get bent while saving your boat, because IIRC they will replace it for free if this happens -- if it ever happens. The reason for choosing it is that it's the lightest anchor (8kg) with the best holding power that can be easily deployed in an emergency. 

 

You really need to think what the actual purpose of having an anchor on a narrowboat is -- and it's completely different to that on a seagoing catamaran like yours... 😉

Edited by IanD
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There is a whole other dimension to anchors on NBs rarely covered here. 

 

Mate of mine got into difficulty with engine failure on the Trent and he'd previously bought all the right anchor, chain the lot. Cost him a packet and being a bit hard up at the time, he elected not to use it for fear of not being able to recover it!

 

 

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7 minutes ago, MtB said:

There is a whole other dimension to anchors on NBs rarely covered here. 

 

Mate of mine got into difficulty with engine failure on the Trent and he'd previously bought all the right anchor, chain the lot. Cost him a packet and being a bit hard up at the time, he elected not to use it for fear of not being able to recover it!

 

 

Was he from Yorkshire?

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

This is the 'weakness' of the Fortress, it digs in and sets so deeply that as the tide turns it cannot break-out and the full load is applied laterally and something has to give.

Strangely, I've never thought to video my anchor, but I can tell you that it sets quickly and well and when the tide turns it breaks out and resets faultlessly. Tens of thousands of them have been sold and the Fortress guarantee is for replacement should any part fail, unlike that of other premium brands.

 

There are lots of anchor test comparisons that rate the Fortress highly if not best and lots of very satisfied customers who have never had a problem with them.

 

They can be almost 50% lighter in weight than a steel anchor of similar holding power, so are ideal for deploying in an emergency and safer to retrieve without putting out your back.

 

I really can't see how it could be bent during emergency deployment in the case of engine failure and I've yet to see a NB anchored in a tidal estuary over night. I fear the boat would be more vulnerable than the anchor in tidal waters.

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42 minutes ago, IanD said:

You really need to think what the actual purpose of having an anchor on a narrowboat is -- and it's completely different to that on a seagoing catamaran like yours...

 

 

 

Yes it is - deploying an anchor from a NB will be because of an emergency, when I deploy an anchor from my Catamaran (or even my cruiser) it is at a selected place, and eveyything is ready.

The anchor from a NB needs to set, and stay set 1st time, you may not get another chance. The anchor from my boat can be reset any number of times (if needed) I'm stopping for the night so want it 'right'.

 

I really think that you should know a little about a subject before forcing your opinions on others - I wonder why they used Marvin in Hitchikers Guide to The Galaxy when you could just have told then "42"

 

Have you ever been involved in deploying an anchor, in a emergency, on a river ?

 

 

 

I have.

 

It was a boat we were cruising with who 'lost his engine' as we left the visitors moorings at Cromwell lock and we were about to turn upstream towards Newark.

He started drifting sideways in the current & closing rapidly on the weir - he threw his anchor over the front, it made a 'sort of a set' and the boat jerked thru 90 degrees, in a 'snatch', so much that ornaments and pots fell out of the cupboard, as soon as he was directly into the flow the anchor gave way and didn't re-set, it did slow him and gave us chance to get alongside - it took two boats about 6 or 7 attempts to actually get a line aboard because he was swinging in the current as the anchor caught - let go - caught - let go. Eventually got him and towed him into Kings Marina.

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52 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

Yes it is - deploying an anchor from a NB will be because of an emergency, when I deploy an anchor from my Catamaran (or even my cruiser) it is at a selected place, and eveyything is ready.

The anchor from a NB needs to set, and stay set 1st time, you may not get another chance. The anchor from my boat can be reset any number of times (if needed) I'm stopping for the night so want it 'right'.

 

I really think that you should know a little about a subject before forcing your opinions on others - I wonder why they used Marvin in Hitchikers Guide to The Galaxy when you could just have told then "42"

 

Have you ever been involved in deploying an anchor, in a emergency, on a river ?

 

 

 

I have.

 

It was a boat we were cruising with who 'lost his engine' as we left the visitors moorings at Cromwell lock and we were about to turn upstream towards Newark.

He started drifting sideways in the current & closing rapidly on the weir - he threw his anchor over the front, it made a 'sort of a set' and the boat jerked thru 90 degrees, in a 'snatch', so much that ornaments and pots fell out of the cupboard, as soon as he was directly into the flow the anchor gave way and didn't re-set, it did slow him and gave us chance to get alongside - it took two boats about 6 or 7 attempts to actually get a line aboard because he was swinging in the current as the anchor caught - let go - caught - let go. Eventually got him and towed him into Kings Marina.

 

Cut the crap Alan -- your own review data shows that the Fortress has the best first-time setting and holding power for the lightest weight of any of the anchors under test.

 

Your objections to it may well be valid for a yacht (frequent and repeated anchorings for long periods including reversing tides, possible damage when this happens) and I wouldn't argue with that -- but are completely irrelevant for a narrowboat (one-off deployment in an emergency, Fortress will replace it if damaged).

 

You're as bad as Peter at taking your viewpoint -- which is undoubtedly valid for your circumstances -- and being unable to recognise that it simply doesn't apply to different people under very different circumstances... 😞

 

I don't need to have been sailing the seven seas for a lifetime to be able to spot when you're spouting BS...

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40 minutes ago, IanD said:

Cut the crap Alan -- your own review data shows that the Fortress has the best first-time setting and holding power for the lightest weight of any of the anchors under test.

 

 

You cherry pick (again) and cannot accept that you are wrong, and that you have (probably) chosen the wrong anchor.

 

As I said, the Fortress has phenominal holding power, and that, combined with its alloy construction is its weakness, it can twist and become unusable because it sets so well.

 

As in the case of a boat drifting sideways in the current, when the anchor sets it will put a huge snatch load on the anchor - that is when the Fortress could fail - other anchors will break out and re-set.

 

Come back, give us facts and tell us what happened when you have actually tried at stop a 20 tonne boat in an emergency stop.

 

Remember - the anchor YOU have chosen is NOT a Fortress, it is a weaker, thinner, cheaper version so its failure mode will be at even lower forces than the Fortress !

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Come back, give us facts and tell us what happened when you have actually tried at stop a 20 tonne boat in an emergency stop.

 

 

Forgive me for suspecting perhaps haven't, either. 

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7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

As in the case of a boat drifting sideways in the current, when the anchor sets it will put a huge snatch load on the anchor - that is when the Fortress could fail

Under such circumstances the biting anchor and it's chain/warp will be in line, or nearly in line with the direction of the pulling force, the point at which the Fortress is at its strongest. If correctly sized it won't fail.

 

Forgive me, but to suggest that one of the world's most respected anchors is not worthy of carrying is just wrong. Tens of thousands have been sold and they just don't fail in real life use, indeed, they have been extensively tested and recommended by independent bodies and trusted by yachts taking part in the Vendée Globe and the Volvo Ocean race.

 

Below are quotations from 'Practical Sailor', but if anyone needs further reassurance that the Fortress is a reliable, high hold anchor suitable for narrowboats or other craft then a quick search on the internet will provide all the reassurance you need. 

 

"Many of 2008-2009 Vendee racers used the same style of anchor that Stamm did, a 32-pound FX-55 made by Fortress Anchors. Others used Fortresss budget-priced version of the same anchor, the Guardian G-55.

The preference for the Fortress brand has since become institutionalized. In the upcoming 2014 Volvo Ocean Race, the rules specify that all yachts carry at least two Fortress FX-85s."

 

"Practicsl Sailor tested the Fortress FX-23 in a variety of seabeds, ranging from clay and sand to mud and weed. In each seabed, the anchor set quickly and securely. In anything up to a 90-degree turn, the anchor swiveled but did not pull out"

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1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

"Practicsl Sailor tested the Fortress FX-23 in a variety of seabeds, ranging from clay and sand to mud and weed. In each seabed, the anchor set quickly and securely. In anything up to a 90-degree turn, the anchor swiveled but did not pull out"

 

And, that is exactly how it should work, the problem is when it holds so 'fast' that it does not swivel and the lateral force is applied to the 'arm' which cannot take it.

 

It will not happen every time, it will not happen most of the time, but the test reports from various magazines show that it can occasionally happen and when it does it becomes a 'catastrophic' failure and becomes unusable, your 'money back / replacement' guarantee is not worth a great deal when you are in the middle of nowhere with no anchor.

 

I agree it is a great anchor, well respected and widely used - however, I know of no one who actually uses one (except for you), but I guess if you are used to working in 'lumpy waters' you will have 2 or 3 anchors aboard anyway.

 

On my cruiser I have a :

Kobra 2 as the Bower anchor

Buegel as the Kedge anchor

Bruce anchor as the 'spare'.

 

On the "Cat" I have a :

Manson as the Bower anchor

A Bruce as the Kedge anchor

A Bruce anchor as the 'spare'

 

 

Whilst having lower performace figures than the Fortress the Kobra 2 (came 2nd to the Fortress) and the Buegel (came 3rd to the Fortress) both were able to complete the full range of testing without failing.

 

Fortress anchor - A bit like having a fast car with the best braking system in the world, that occasionally fails to work and results in the car crashing !

 

 

 

Screenshot (1477).png

Screenshot (1479).png

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I agree it is a great anchor, well respected and widely used - however, I know of no one who actually uses one (except for you),

This suggests to me you can't know all that many boaters assuming the first part of your statement is correct.

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2 minutes ago, Jerra said:

This suggests to me you can't know all that many boaters assuming the first part of your statement is correct.

 

Reviews always show it as a well performing anchor, as Bargebuilder says it is widely used in racing boats because of its light weight - the rules say the boats must carry a suitable anchor and the fortress is an easy way of 'getting weight off'.

 

No, I do not know any offshore yacht racers, but of the 100+ boats in my current coastal marina I cannot say I have seen a Fortress on the bow.

In my previous marinas I cannot recall ever seeing a Fortress, in marinas we visit, when walking to the office, showers, shops, restaurant etc, I always look at what anchors boats have as technology changes and its always interesting to see what people are using - again - I cannot ever recall seeing a Fortress.

 

I imagine that cost will have an important part to play for many folks.

 

The typical 15 metre boat ( 10-12 tonne) will require a :

 

Fortress Fx37 (weight 10kgs) at a cost of ~ £750

Kobra 2 (weight 16kgs) at a cost of ~ £150

Buegel (weight 14kgs) at a cost of ~£100

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13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And, that is exactly how it should work, the problem is when it holds so 'fast' that it does not swivel and the lateral force is applied to the 'arm' which cannot take it.

 

The effect of tidal flow reversing on an anchor is a very gentle one. Over high or low tide, the current slows to zero and reverses over many minutes. The boat gently stops pulling on the anchor, the chain slackens, the boat hovers and slowly turns through 180⁰ whilst tracking back over the anchor. When the slack in the chain is taken up, the anchor breaks free, flips over or rotates gently in the mud and gradually digs back in again in the opposite direction. This is never a violent process with shock loads, just a gentle process with almost zero possibility of damaging such a well made anchor. 

 

If you jammed the flukes between rocks and motored backwards at 90⁰ to the shank then you probably would damage it, but in normal use no.

 

It is an expensive anchor, but it is beautifully made and best of all, the Fortress is light in weight. Easy to lift into and out of deep lockers, easy to deploy, easy to retrieve and of all designs, one of the best at digging-in first time, every time and holding firm. These features make it highly suitable for NBs as an emergency anchor. 

 

As an emergency NB anchor, it will never experience the sort of lateral load that could damage it, in fact the chances of damaging it on any boat and in any circumstances is vanishingly small, otherwise they wouldn't have tens of thousands of satisfied customers.

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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No, I do not know any offshore yacht racers, but of the 100+ boats in my current coastal marina I cannot say I have seen a Fortress on the bow.

 

That's probably because a fortress isn't really shaped to fit neatly on a bow roller like a plough or claw shaped anchor like a Bruce is. A fortress is much more likely to be stowed flat in a locker out of sight.

 

That said I've not got one on my yacht either, having used a Bruce for the last 30+ years with a CQR as a kedge. And I'd agree about the costs entirely.

 

They must be selling enough though else the company would be out of business. Perhaps they're more popular in the States.

 

I'll make a point of looking later today when I'm out - Sail GP in Plymouth, so some insane 50 foot foiling catamarans doing 50 knots around the Sound.

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6 hours ago, gatekrash said:
7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That's probably because a fortress isn't really shaped to fit neatly on a bow roller like a plough or claw shaped anchor like a Bruce is. A fortress is much more likely to be stowed flat in a locker out of sight.

They do fit very nicely in a hawse pipe though on a barge such as mine.

 

It was also the only anchor design that was light enough to get back on board by hand should the electric windlass ever fail.

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7 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

 

The effect of tidal flow reversing on an anchor is a very gentle one. Over high or low tide, the current slows to zero and reverses over many minutes. The boat gently stops pulling on the anchor, the chain slackens, the boat hovers and slowly turns through 180⁰ whilst tracking back over the anchor. When the slack in the chain is taken up, the anchor breaks free, flips over or rotates gently in the mud and gradually digs back in again in the opposite direction. This is never a violent process with shock loads, just a gentle process with almost zero possibility of damaging such a well made anchor. 

 

If you jammed the flukes between rocks and motored backwards at 90⁰ to the shank then you probably would damage it, but in normal use no.

 

It is an expensive anchor, but it is beautifully made and best of all, the Fortress is light in weight. Easy to lift into and out of deep lockers, easy to deploy, easy to retrieve and of all designs, one of the best at digging-in first time, every time and holding firm. These features make it highly suitable for NBs as an emergency anchor. 

 

As an emergency NB anchor, it will never experience the sort of lateral load that could damage it, in fact the chances of damaging it on any boat and in any circumstances is vanishingly small, otherwise they wouldn't have tens of thousands of satisfied customers.

As well as the excellent setting and holding power, the light weight of the Fortress/Guardian is a real advantage on a canal boat. With most other anchors one big enough to effectively stop a 20t narrowboat or a 30t wideboat is too heavy for most people to handle easily, so the temptation is to use one which is smaller than it should be to keep the weight down.

 

The main reasons the Guardian is cheaper is it's not anodised (good for seagoing yachts with salt, not really needed for a canal boat) and doesn't have the adjustable angle for mooring in soft mud in deep water (ditto) -- so Alan's right, the Fortress is better if you've got a seagoing catamaran like he has which needs to anchor regularly. But for a boat on the inland canals I think the Guardian makes more sense.

 

Yes it's expensive. Looked at another way, the added cost is less than 0.2% of the cost of the boat for me, which I think is worth it -- but I'm not saying it's right for everybody. Other opinions are available...

Edited by IanD
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11 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

It was also the only anchor design that was light enough to get back on board by hand should the electric windlass ever fail.

 

 

The 1st time we used the 30kg Mantus anchor it set so well and with the tide running it pulled the windlass off it mountings and 150 metres of chain went free-flow over the bow. I was about to reach out and grab it when the wife pulled me back saying don't be stupid. Fortunately the bitter-end was secured.

 

We then had to handball 350 kgs of chain back aboard and someone had to stow it in the locker - talk about backbreaking. Once the chain was vertical beneath us we tied it off onto the bridle and motored forwards to break it out, we then had to lift 15 metres (35+ kgs) of chain with 30kg of anchor hanging on the end.

 

Motored back into Hull and got a new (stronger) mounting plate made up. The old plate and windless mounting had been more than enough for the 30kg Bruce anchor, but once we used a modern SHHP (Super High Holding Power Lloyds rated) anchor the weak point became the mountings.

 

Been fine since.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Just to throw in to the mix:

 

When Googling river anchors it comes up with mushroom anchors or variations of a mushroom anchor as a possible best. 
 

I’m sure it’ll be proven to be a daft question but I’ll ask anyway (I always do)

What are the pros and cons of these for a narrowboat on a river?

Are they only for small lightweight craft?

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The 1st time we used the 30kg Mantus anchor it set so well and with the tide running it pulled the windlass off it mountings and 150 metres of chain went free-flow over the bow.

I'm astonished that you didn't set a chain hook in place before the anchor bit, that's pretty basic stuff for a lumpy water skipper, and always stipulated in the instructions that accompany any windlass, electric or manual.

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