CRT training vlockies today, wrongly

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I'm always intrigued by those boat that have their back doors carpeted with brass wotsits with canal names embossed on them, and always have a slight feeling that they've bought a job lot on eBay.

It's the boater's equivalent of urban graffiti.

I’ve only 3 such plates 😃 on display, on me front doors.

Each rightfully earned from doing the BCN challenge. 

 

[Athy]

17 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

I was though in the main responding to the notion that you can choose which boats to slow down for and which not.

We generally slow down when passing most boats, but not CART work boats.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

Overall I've never found mooring satisfactorily to be anywhere near as challenging as the huge amount of column inches dedicated to the subject on this channel might have you believe. I never use springs and I often find my lines are tied at close to right angles because the standard spacing for rings and bollards (which I prefer) seems to be about the same as the length of my boat.

Im using a spring line now, rings usually fall the same length for my 48’ boat. 

I find if I moor about 3’ ahead of the rings it works out ok for me.

The line from the bow angles back towards the boat keeping the front in.

The line from the stern angles away from the boat  but keeps the stern in against the bank.

And the spring from the stern to the centre ring on the bank keeps the boat tight forward.

It’s a method I’ve found works for me, not for a moment telling you how to moor, but it may point a way for someone who ain’t worked it out yet.

 

My moan if I we’re to have one is about the boats that don’t slow down as I’m trying to moor up.

If I see someone just tying up then I will go past at a crawl or even stop if I see they’re struggling to pull a long boat in.

But I rarely get this curtesy shown to me.

It can be a struggle pulling a boat in while it’s surging backwards and forwards because some nob who can’t even acknowledge you with a nod or a wave motors past.

I’ve learned to tie up quickly and if timed right and I’m lucky I can use the surges from Mr Nob to tighten slack lines.

 

oh, and the last time anyone shouted at me to slow down was 2019 on the bridge water, from his bedroom window (in a house)

my reply was “go back to bed or put some clothes on you pervert.” 

[dmr]

2 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

In which case a good set of large fenders is useful. I had to do similar the other day having left the boat against a pontoon under which the gunwales could have become trapped in the event the water level recovers. However I don't generally leave Vulpes online when I'm not aboard.

 

Overall I've never found mooring satisfactorily to be anywhere near as challenging as the huge amount of column inches dedicated to the subject on this channel might have you believe. I never use springs and I often find my lines are tied at close to right angles because the standard spacing for rings and bollards (which I prefer) seems to be about the same as the length of my boat.

 

 

 

 

I am also a no springs and lines at right angles moorer. I try to go for 45 degrees but find that the boat often moves a bit whilst I am knocking the pins in, or there is hard ground and the pins won't go in where I want, but it always works out that the lines end up at 90 degrees. I use a couple of wheelbarrow type wheels rather than fenders, essential on the Rochdale and useful in many other places. I have several spare ropes and pins but springs are pretty much a last resort.

Goat chains for Armco, nappy pins are the work of the devil, they make a huge racket even when I pass moored boats really slowly.

[Tracy D'arth]

7 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

 

nappy pins are the work of the devil, they make a huge racket even when I pass moored boats really slowly.

Mine don't, I always locate a tie bolt then they won't slip.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

I am also a no springs and lines at right angles moorer. I try to go for 45 degrees but find that the boat often moves a bit whilst I am knocking the pins in, or there is hard ground and the pins won't go in where I want, but it always works out that the lines end up at 90 degrees. I use a couple of wheelbarrow type wheels rather than fenders, essential on the Rochdale and useful in many other places. I have several spare ropes and pins but springs are pretty much a last resort.

Goat chains for Armco, nappy pins are the work of the devil, they make a huge racket even when I pass moored boats really slowly.

I just don’t know any other way of mooring on rings/bollards the same distance as my boat length without using a spring line.

Otherwise I’m with you, they’re a last resort, and I prefer to just tie off once at the front and once off the back at 45 degreeish, preferably with goat chains. 
It’s usually enough, no need to make a meal out of it. 
I like a little movement and generally don’t worry what speed a boat pass me.

 

I think I’m becoming more concerned with the speed scooters are passing on the towpath.

Im sure one day I’ll get hit as I climb out the boat.

 

 

[Bargebuilder]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

If water level varies a lot then obviously short tight lines are a bad idea because they can hang the boat up.

Only tight breast lines could hang a boat up, never properly rigged springs. I like to use nylon springs rather than polypropylene, as the former is slightly elastic, soaking up surging forces rather than snagging tight. Take one line from the bow mooring pin right back to the stern cleat and the second from the stern mooring pin right forward to the bow cleat. The lines are so long that any fall in water levels makes almost no difference at all and certainly will have no ' hold down' effect.

[IanD]

Just now, Bargebuilder said:

Only tight breast lines could hang a boat up, never properly rigged springs. I like to use nylon springs rather than polypropylene, as the former is slightly elastic, soaking up surging forces rather than snagging tight. Take one line from the bow mooring pin right back to the stern cleat and the second from the stern mooring pin right forward to the bow cleat. The lines are so long that any fall in water levels makes almost no difference at all and certainly will have no ' hold down' effect.

 

That was what I thought I'd said. Springs are usually long enough (even if they go to a spring loop not the full length of the boat) that the boat can rise or fall without tightening them appreciably, and also a longer line has more stretch -- for which nylon is best, as you say. Also for anchors, for the same reason...

[Jerra]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

We generally slow down when passing most boats, but not CART work boats.

Naughty naughty!    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So do I.    😁

[frangar]

1 hour ago, Athy said:

We generally slow down when passing most boats, but not CART work boats.

Why not CRT boats?? They are just as likely to pull free and if they have someone working in them why are they not offered the same courtesy as any other boat. 

[Bargebuilder]

25 minutes ago, IanD said:

nylon is best, as you say. Also for anchors, for the same reason.

For anchoring of course when spliced to chain, the easiest rope to stow is anchorplait as it flakes like chain into the locker; still nylon, still stretchy, but much less likely to twist or knot.

[Jim Riley]

22 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

I've been boating in the canals since 1973 and the advice has always been to slow down past moored boats.

 

In the commercial carrying days, boats moored online during the day would have been unusual, so no need for them to slow down.

 

My boat only touches the bottom when the level is low and a boat speeds past. As I said the water is about 3' 6"' deep when the canal is at weir level. My boat draws about 30".

 

When I bought the house and asked CRT permission to develop the mooring (over 8 years ago), the mooring conditions document said they could not guarantee adequate depth, that it was my responsibility to dredge it using only CRT approved contractors, and that the minimum charge would be £6,000.

I would outsource it to some wader owning mooring faeries who have a long handled shovel.😉

My mooring is in a very short pound, they have been known to visit when the pound is low, possibly a hire boater left a paddle up. Who knows?

Edited July 29, 2022 by Jim Riley

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Goliath said:

I’ve only 3 such plates 😃 on display, on me front doors.

Each rightfully earned from doing the BCN challenge. 

 

Mine are all in a box, do I weigh them in or screw them to the door?

2 hours ago, Athy said:

We generally slow down when passing most boats, but not CART work boats.

So thats why they are always coming adrift on the canal

[IanD]

20 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

For anchoring of course when spliced to chain, the easiest rope to stow is anchorplait as it flakes like chain into the locker; still nylon, still stretchy, but much less likely to twist or knot.

Thanks for the suggestion. Fortress/Guardian G37 + 3m of 10mm chain (Fortress recommendation) + 20m of 16mm anchorplait (ditto) it is, then. Should even keep Alan happy... 😉

Edited July 29, 2022 by IanD

[Jerra]

5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

So thats why they are always coming adrift on the canal

I thought that was something to do with the blue string they are tied up with.

[Tracy D'arth]

1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

Only tight breast lines could hang a boat up, never properly rigged springs. I like to use nylon springs rather than polypropylene, as the former is slightly elastic, soaking up surging forces rather than snagging tight. Take one line from the bow mooring pin right back to the stern cleat and the second from the stern mooring pin right forward to the bow cleat. The lines are so long that any fall in water levels makes almost no difference at all and certainly will have no ' hold down' effect.

Your boat has a cruiser stern and no cratch then?   With otherwise that is impossible without damaging the boat/paint/cratch.

[Jim Riley]

1 hour ago, frangar said:

Why not CRT boats?? They are just as likely to pull free and if they have someone working in them why are they not offered the same courtesy as any other boat. 

I'd suggest they are more likely to pull free.

 

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, Goliath said:

Im using a spring line now, rings usually fall the same length for my 48’ boat. 

I find if I moor about 3’ ahead of the rings it works out ok for me.

The line from the bow angles back towards the boat keeping the front in.

The line from the stern angles away from the boat  but keeps the stern in against the bank.

And the spring from the stern to the centre ring on the bank keeps the boat tight forward.

It’s a method I’ve found works for me, not for a moment telling you how to moor, but it may point a way for someone who ain’t worked it out yet.

 

My moan if I we’re to have one is about the boats that don’t slow down as I’m trying to moor up.

If I see someone just tying up then I will go past at a crawl or even stop if I see they’re struggling to pull a long boat in.

But I rarely get this curtesy shown to me.

It can be a struggle pulling a boat in while it’s surging backwards and forwards because some nob who can’t even acknowledge you with a nod or a wave motors past.

I’ve learned to tie up quickly and if timed right and I’m lucky I can use the surges from Mr Nob to tighten slack lines.

 

oh, and the last time anyone shouted at me to slow down was 2019 on the bridge water, from his bedroom window (in a house)

my reply was “go back to bed or put some clothes on you pervert.” 

 

Yes it is amazing how many people just charge past whilst you are trying to tie up.

 

If I see someone tieing their boat as I am approaching I drop the boat into neutral to reduce the pull.

[Mike Todd]

18 hours ago, nicknorman said:

The difference revolves around using a boat for accommodation without really embracing the concept of boating (using a boat for navigation) vs using a boat for travelling aka navigation. On this trip we visited the Wey and reached the most southerly point of the interconnected inland waterways. IMO that is what boating is about, but of course you are quite entitled to hold a different view such as that boating is all about tying up your boat badly and then complaining when another boat comes past.

 

But since the OED defines boating as the activity of travelling by boat, I think convention is on my side.

Can you point us to the bit in the rules that says that having a boat and a licence requires you to go boating? (In your terms)

[Jim Riley]

4 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Can you point us to the bit in the rules that says that having a boat and a licence requires you to go boating? (In your terms)

Why have a boat and not move at all? If your lines are slack at least you have been somewhere, though not far. Otherwise get a caravan in your garden, on the edge. Same view, cheaper mooring. Though admittedly, no excuse to shout at passing boats. 

 

Not that that has stopped some people, got "requested to slow down" from a canalside balcony once, in Luddenden Foot. There were no other boats around, no breaking wash etc.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Jim Riley

[nicknorman]

31 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Can you point us to the bit in the rules that says that having a boat and a licence requires you to go boating? (In your terms)

If you are without a home mooring, then yes. It’s in the 1995 BW act and requires the boat to be used bona fide for navigation throughout the period (of the licence). If you have a home mooring then it’s no problem to spend all your time on that home mooring.

 

But anyway, you misunderstood my point which is that people who have boats that never move, are not boaters, if the definition of a boater is someone who goes boating. There is no law against, or objection to, being a continuous moorer provided you have a permanent mooring to moor on.

[ditchcrawler]

55 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Yes it is amazing how many people just charge past whilst you are trying to tie up.

 

If I see someone tieing their boat as I am approaching I drop the boat into neutral to reduce the pull.

Same here

[Bargebuilder]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

Thanks for the suggestion. Fortress/Guardian G37 + 3m of 10mm chain (Fortress recommendation) + 20m of 16mm anchorplait (ditto) it is, then. Should even keep Alan happy... 😉

I had a Fortress on my barge and heartily recommend them as a high hold anchor. My record was, our anchor deployed in an estuary with 6 other boats rafted (breasted in NB speak), 3 on each side with all 7 boats hanging off of just our anchor overnight. Not only that, but when the tide turned whilst we all slept, the anchor will have broken out, turned through 180⁰ and re-set again, with no further intervention.

 

I wouldn't have risked doing that with just 3m of chain though, as the anchor's holding and setting ability is a function of the anchor rode laying horizontal (or close to) with the sea or river bed and 3m of 10mm chain in water doesn't give much weight.

 

Given that a NB anchor is likely to only ever be deployed in a grave emergency, like engine failure on the tidal Severn, skimping on chain may not be the way to go. You need your anchor to bite first time, every time, and hold against a 5 knot current.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

Thanks for the suggestion. Fortress/Guardian G37 + 3m of 10mm chain (Fortress recommendation) + 20m of 16mm anchorplait (ditto) it is, then. Should even keep Alan happy... 😉

 

If you have gone for the Guardian, then I'm not impressed.

 

The Fortress is an excellent anchor if the pull is in a straight line, but every test I've seen done on them reports that any 'sideways pull' and the anachor bends and twists.

 

The Guardian is the 'poor mans' Fortress anchor and being built of thinner section extrusions it is even more prone to bending.

 

Benefiting from years of Fortress Anchor R&D, the Guardian model offers excellent quality, performance and economy. Guardian Anchors are made from the same high tensile, corrosion resistant aluminum magnesium alloy and manufacturing precision as Fortress.

The use of slightly smaller extrusion profiles and the elimination of some of Fortress’ extra features, such as anodizing, adjustable fluke angles, and several machining steps resulted in a very affordable alternative to those heavy, rust-prone steel anchors.

While the Fortress Anchor can be adjusted from 32 degrees to 45 degrees for extra holding power, the Guardian Anchor is limited to one single 32-degree angle.

 

Source :  The manufacturer : Guardian Anchors - Fortress Anchors

 

You appear to have bought the 'best of everything' for your boat, but for the item that could save your life you have gone for the 'economy' version with lower perfomance in both strength and holding power.

[MtB]

42 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Same here

 

Same here too.

 

In fact I routinely take it out of gear when passing already-moored boats too, as the draw from my hull seems less when it is out of gear than when in gear at tickover. Just the act of taking out of gear seems to reduce the amount I move a moored boat. Maybe I'm imagining it.